Best Gas / Ethanol??

[tractorboy924]

Hello all...finally bit it and got the 353 model......cant wait to get cutting....

anyways to start this thing off right...want to see what people are running for gas in theirs.....

Now...this model is the e series and I thought I read somewhere they tend to run hotter, and I know using race gas or a high ethonal content tends to run a 2 smoker hotter as well?

Heres the deal too....I run pretty much race gas in my dirtbike as it burns the best and same in my weed whacker and have had great results....not as smokey, burns MUCH cleaner and much better for the motor..atleast for the suzuki motor.........

What are your thoughts on running an 85% enthonal mix? We just got a fastrac and they have 85 Ethonal much cheaper than race gas...but again..not sure what the best to run in my virgin Husqy??

Tractor>?&gt

 

[savageactor7]

I'd burn what the owners manual recommended...in my Huskey and all 2cy engines we burn 86 octane with the proper oil. btw smoke from a 2cycle engine is not a bad thing. For no particular reason I can give you I would never burn an Ethanol mixture in my 2cycle equipment....Never!

 

[Outdoorsman]

The newer E type saws all tend to run hot, that's due to the way they are set very lean to make the EPA happy.

I've been running 10% alky/ethanol for some years in my Stihls with no problems at all, but do run the 94 Sunoco premium blend. One thing you should be aware of though with a alky blend. You'll need to set your saws carb richer, I expect a good deal richer on a 85% blend, but that's about it. In fact I'd urge you to try the 10% blend first before jumping into that E85 stuff. While I've had no problems at all with 10%, E85 might give a very different result.

If I had your easy source of race gas though, that is the only thing I'd run.

As to the factory recommended gas, my Stihl's all call for 89 octane. And my take on that is that is the minimum for best performance.

 

[tractorboy924]

Yes......we have a delta sonic that has race gas not too far and after having the two stroke motor rebuild in the dirtbike...its he ONLY thing I will run in her now...its perfect..burns clean and you DO see a performance increase with it.....same with my weed eater..I dont get the gum up with it and plugs stay good and clean.

Thanks Burning Chunk...I had a feeling the race gas was the thing...I THOUGHT race gas was 100% ethanol but I guess Im wrong....no wait...its 100 octane right??

cant remember...thats how much Ive had to get it this year so far. sad..prime dirt bike season! But...logs dont cut themselves...ok...race gas it is then!

Thanks!!

 

[woodconvert]

I'd burn what the owners manual recommended. For no particular reason I can give you I would never burn an Ethanol mixture in my 2cycle equipment....Never!

As long as you richen up the mixture (by how much is the question) you won't hurt the engine and it'll perform the same. I have however heard stories about the ethanol not getting along with some rubber seals and thin aluminum parts (float bowls on mowers/splitters, etc.) but i've never had any issues...and I don't think other than Sunoco Blue racing gas that I even have the option of burning pure gas. Everything around here has some ethanol in it.

 

[cmonSTART]

Ethanol eats up the rubber parts in the carbs, as well as the sealants the use during manufacturing. Neither the Husky or Stihl reps I've talked to have any clue about what to do about it except don't store fuel in the saw at all. We're having trouble enough with the 10% ethanol stuff now I would be very hesitant to recommend anything more than that. Ethanol is a magnet for water.

 

[Outdoorsman]

Ethanol eats up the rubber parts in the carbs, as well as the sealants the use during manufacturing. Neither the Husky or Stihl reps I've talked to have any clue about what to do about it except don't store fuel in the saw at all. We're having trouble enough with the 10% ethanol stuff now I would be very hesitant to recommend anything more than that. Ethanol is a magnet for water.

Thanks for that post. Glad I never leave gas in a saw unless sure I'm going to cut again the very next day, just not a good habit.

Though I've had no problems as yet it's worth keeping in mind. Problem is that, at least in Mi you've few options if you don't want to run at least 10% blend.

Where I'm at you have only these options, that I can think of anyway.

1) Av gas if your local airport will sell it for none aviation use.

2) Race gas, which is much more expensive than normal premium, though it works great when you can get it.

3) BP, if you've a nearby BP station. At least the one I sometimes buy gas at in Blissfield MI has no Ethanol in their gas.

Anything else is at least 10% in my area of Mi in the SE corner.

 

[woodconvert]

Ethanol eats up the rubber parts in the carbs, as well as the sealants the use during manufacturing. Neither the Husky or Stihl reps I've talked to have any clue about what to do about it except don't store fuel in the saw at all. We're having trouble enough with the 10% ethanol stuff now I would be very hesitant to recommend anything more than that. Ethanol is a magnet for water.

Thanks for that post. Glad I never leave gas in a saw unless sure I'm going to cut again the very next day, just not a good habit.

Though I've had no problems as yet it's worth keeping in mind. Problem is that, at least in Mi you've few options if you don't want to run at least 10% blend.

Where I'm at you have only these options, that I can think of anyway.

1) Av gas if your local airport will sell it for none aviation use.

2) Race gas, which is much more expensive than normal premium, though it works great when you can get it.

3) BP, if you've a nearby BP station. At least the one I sometimes buy gas at in Blissfield MI has no Ethanol in their gas.

Anything else is at least 10% in my area of Mi in the SE corner.

Ats what i'm talkin' bout...unless you get Av gas (kinda hard to get someone to sell it to ya) or pump racing gas (not everywthere but it's there if you look) yer gunna get some alky in there. I've never had a problem with it in there but mayhaps i'm lucky???

 

[Gooserider]

My Dolmar, purchased earlier this year reccomends against using ethanol. The pros over on arboristsite advise against using ethanol. Nobody mentions using avgase or race fuel though... (and it is worth mentioning that avgas and race fuel tend NOT to be ethanol based!) The general concensus from posts that I've seems to be to use the premium grade from a name brand station - it will generally have less ethanol, and to mix it with a good quality pre-mix oil - something with either a major sawmakers name on it, or a major oil company brand... (You will see lots of battles over synthetic vs. dino base - I'd probably tend to go with the dino for the first few gallons, then switch to a synthetic)

I also think that unless you are a pro that will burn through the stuff in a matter of days, you should never mix up more than a gallon at a time, and you should either use a pre-mix oil with fuel stabilizer built in, or add your own...

Gooserider

 

[woodconvert]

author="Gooserider" date="1216691991"] The pros over on arboristsite advise against using ethanol. Nobody mentions using avgase or race fuel though... (and it is worth mentioning that avgas and race fuel tend NOT to be ethanol based!)

Avgas/race fuel are not ethanol based. Most race gases are leaded 100+ octane...no ethanol. You can buy pure ethanol for a racing fuel as well but that's a different ballgame.

I also think that unless you are a pro that will burn through the stuff in a matter of days, you should never mix up more than a gallon at a time, and you should either use a pre-mix oil with fuel stabilizer built in, or add your own...

Gooserider

I see a lot of people saying this but I have never ever had fuel go bad. I put my saws and trimmer to bed with a load of fuel in the late fall, no stabil, and they fire right up in the spring.

 

[carbon neutral]

I stole this from my DOLMAR!! thread. We had a discussion over there about fuel as well.
1. Fuel
A. Use fuel with low methanol. Methanol breaks down the lube oil on the cylinder walls. IHO Exxon/Mobil is the best fuel avoid Gulf, Cumberland farms, and Safeway. 89 or higher octane.
B. Use Husky XP premium lube oil. The XP oil has a fuel stabilizer in it and will keep the gas fresh longer, if not available stihl or dolmar oil should be used but that is the only other oils he would reccomend using. Mix the gas 8/10th gas to one 2.6 OZ oil bottle. This will end up being about a 45:1 ratio, he thinks 50:1 is too little oil for these high output saws.
C. Do not use Stabil, it will break down the seals

 

[brad068]

DO NOT use E85 in any 2 cycle. It will eat up fuel lines and the fuel air mixture will definitely need to be richened. Thats why certain newer autos are certified E85 because of the fuel system components.

I always use premium fuel from Mobil 93 octane and Amsoil premix. For storing, I Never use stabil and I never run my carbs dry or fog an engine. I keep the gas on and fill the tank right full and I've never had a problem

 

[Gooserider]

All I can say is maybe the two stroke world is different now, but back when I was a kid growing up around outboards, we always fogged them out for the winter.

I also know that any motorcycle shop will tell you that one of the most reliable income streams they have is the springtime "runs like chit" complaints - usually consists of revs OK but won't idle, and "it was running good when I put it away last fall" - Open gas tank, take whiff - gag - not sure what it is now, but it isn't gas... Drain tank, pull carbs, clean out bowls, w/ special attention to the low speed jets - put back together, bill for several hours labor (it's a pain getting the carbs out of most jap bikes...) problem solved... If it's a good customer explain the virtues of winter storage procedures, if not, keep mouth shut, plan on seeing again in future...

Gooserider

 

[brad068]

All I can say is maybe the two stroke world is different now, but back when I was a kid growing up around outboards, we always fogged them out for the winter.

I also know that any motorcycle shop will tell you that one of the most reliable income streams they have is the springtime "runs like chit" complaints - usually consists of revs OK but won't idle, and "it was running good when I put it away last fall" - Open gas tank, take whiff - gag - not sure what it is now, but it isn't gas... Drain tank, pull carb, clean out bowls, w/ special attention to the low speed jets - put back together, bill for several hours labor (it's a pain getting the carb out of most jap bikes...) problem solved... If it's a good customer explain the virtues of winter storage procedures, if not, keep mouth shut, plan on seeing again in future...

Gooserider

Goose your right. I own a small engine repair shop and I do get alot of business cleaning out carb. I tell folks to always use premium fuel (Its what most Jap manufacturer's recommend in bikes) and always keep the tank full when storing. I don't believe in stabil. I've seen carb in worse shape that have had stabil put in them. My though is that when the tank is full there is less room for air to occupy the tank. If you have ever seen the inside of a metal tank that was sitting around and only half full or less, you can see a rust line starting at the gas level and going up. This new gas draws moisture to it and when moisture and air have time in it it spoil

On another note, if you have a carb that is all varnished up take the bowl off and soak it in Simple Green. It does wonders. PS, if is a polished carb don't try this as it will tarnish the finish of the carb.

 

[Gooserider]

All I can say is maybe the two stroke world is different now, but back when I was a kid growing up around outboards, we always fogged them out for the winter.

I also know that any motorcycle shop will tell you that one of the most reliable income streams they have is the springtime "runs like chit" complaints - usually consists of revs OK but won't idle, and "it was running good when I put it away last fall" - Open gas tank, take whiff - gag - not sure what it is now, but it isn't gas... Drain tank, pull carb, clean out bowls, w/ special attention to the low speed jets - put back together, bill for several hours labor (it's a pain getting the carb out of most jap bikes...) problem solved... If it's a good customer explain the virtues of winter storage procedures, if not, keep mouth shut, plan on seeing again in future...

Gooserider

Goose your right. I own a small engine repair shop and I do get alot of business cleaning out carb. I tell folks to always use premium fuel (Its what most Jap manufacturer's recommend in bikes) and always keep the tank full when storing. I don't believe in stabil. I've seen carb in worse shape that have had stabil put in them. My though is that when the tank is full there is less room for air to occupy the tank. If you have ever seen the inside of a metal tank that was sitting around and only half full or less, you can see a rust line starting at the gas level and going up. This new gas draws moisture to it and when moisture and air have time in it it spoil

On another note, if you have a carb that is all varnished up take the bowl off and soak it in Simple Green. It does wonders. PS, if is a polished carb don't try this as it will tarnish the finish of the carb.

I agree Stabil or equivalents don't do well in carbs, it seems they need a large volume to work, and a carb just doesn't have enough volume. The other part of the problem is that gas does evaporate. In a large tank this is no problem, you won't even notice the difference, especially since a tank is better sealed. But in a small volume it's significant; this allows the volatile bits of the gas in the carb to evaporate, leaving the varnish and sticky parts behind. If you leave the gas tap open, you end up with a carb full of concentrated goo. If the gas is turned off, then the carb dries out leaving a nice layer of varnish on everything...

My feeling is that the best way to store a piece of equipment, motorcycle, etc. is to either run the carb dry or drain it. If there's no gas in the carb, there's nothing to turn into crud. In a float valve type carb, it also takes a load off the float valve, reducing the pressure on the needle and seat - not sure how much difference this makes, but doesn't hurt. I don't see the fuel tank as being as much of an issue, but I agree that it should be either completely full, or empty - not partially full. My tendency is towards empty, as that way there is no gas in the tank to be going bad, leaving you to debate whether to run it through the engine or dispose of it some other way when you go to start up...

(Side note - IMHO the best way to dispose of old pre-mix or "questionable" gas is to mix it with fresh and use it in a small 4-stroke engine - lawn tractor / mower / splitter, etc... These engines are usually not very fussy about their fuel, and don't have the possible worry of messing up the catalytic converter like you would burning it in your car... )

Gooserider

 

[Outdoorsman]

Here is a link to a Stihl tech report I just saw that addresses this very topic. Guess I, and a few others in this thread, have been lucky when it comes to use of ethanol blends. I'll be done with it so long as I can find alternatives (avgas/racegas).

Here's the link: (broken link removed to http://www.moforest.org/news_info/2006/Stihl_Ethanol_Fuel_Guidelines.pdf)

Though I've no link to a comparable Dolmar site/report I read a thread on another site saying that Dolmar is also advising aginst the use of ethanol in their saws, most of all if more than 10%.

 

[oilstinks]

I have always been told oil and alcohol dont mix well and ethanol is a form of alcohol. As far as race gas is concerned it usually does not contain alcohol unless it is a special blend. I have run 110 sunoco and bel ray oil in my 250r since i have had it. Race fuel tends to burn a little cooler and smells good too. I use the leaded stuff. Be careful using leaded race fuel with equipment with a catalytic on it. At $7.50 a gallon and $6 for a three gallon mix i dont run it in my equipment unless im in a big bind for fuel. Try this clean somthing greasy with rubbing alcohol and it will break down the oil thats how we have to clean our machines with at work or thinner which believe it or not somefuel treatments contain some of the same chemicals that are in thinner. Hope i haven t told any lies.

 

[Beanscoot]

I'm interested to know if you can actually adjust the carburetor enough to run E85 fuel, as it requires a much richer mixture for stoichiometric combustion.

I agree that when the old gas gets stinky and rank to just use it up in a less fussy piece of machinery. In my case it's my old car that has a carburetor. Although if you use a filter funnel I don't see why you couldn't dilute old gas and run it in newer vehicles. I've used up many gallons of free old gas in my cars, and the only problem is (rarely) stinky exhaust and slightly increased knocking, in which case I retard the timing a little. If it's filtered and diluted with fresh fuel it shouldn't hurt anything, including catalytic convertors. What hurts them is lead and other heavy metals. So if you use leaded gas in your power saw then don't ever transfer it to a catalytic convertor equipped car.

Actually I would question whether using leaded gas in newer saws is a good idea. Surely they're not designed for it.

 

[Beanscoot]

Here's the summary of the report linked to by Outdoorsman:

"There are quite a few myths surrounding ethanol containing fuels. By following the guidelines previously mentioned, you can use gasoline that contains 10% ethanol in STIHL power equipment.
Gasoline containing higher than 10% ethanol content (e.g. 85% ethanol-E85) cannot be used in STIHL power equipment. Doing so will cause major engine damage and is not covered by STIHL’s Limited Warranty Policy."

 

[sl7vk]

Have any of you guys used the 50:1 can mixes sold at HomeDepot? It's already mixed gas and oil designed for 2 stroke engines....... I wonder if this stuff is any good or worth looking at?

 

[Gooserider]

Haven't tried them, my gut reaction on hearing them mentioned is probably OK, probably overpriced for what you get, but that is not based on any solid info....

I'd want to know a bit more info before pouring the stuff in my saw -

1. What kind of oil is it, and what is it's ISO rating? (should be the same as mentioned earlier in the thread)

2. What's the mix ratio - mostly confirm that it is 50:1

3. What grade of gas was it mixed with? - I use premium, brand name, pump gas (usually Exxon/Mobile cause it's closest to the house) - I'd want to know that what was in the HD stuff was the same...

4. Does it contain fuel preservative? If not, how do they ensure the gas is reasonably fresh?

As to the cost - I figure I'm currently paying a little over $4.00 / gallon for the gas, and about $1.25 for the pre-mix oil bottle, so call it about $5.50 / gallon for the "pump-it-myself" pre-mix - assuming the answers were goo for the HD stuff, I wouldn't pay more than about $6.00 / gallon...

Gooserider