Better Safe, I just signed on the site to get some answers

[elkimmeg]

this question was asked at the bottom of an existing post and really needs it own post
New member carg3


I brought home today, but
this topic caught my eye. You all seem to be talking about a second stove other than wood, but is there
an air quality danger with two cat wood stoves in an area just a touch over 3600 sf?

 

[Roospike]

Better Safe, I just signed on the site to get some answers on a VC Resolute I brought home today, but
this topic caught my eye. You all seem to be talking about a second stove other than wood, but
is there an air quality danger with two cat wood stoves in an area just a touch over 3600 sf?

I'm asking about the availability of air for the stoves themselves. I built the house three years ago, and
had a double block chimney installed (two flues). The first stove, a Harman Exception, is in the basement,
and the thing will heat the whole 3600 sf until we get below 10 above. I hadn't found a good deal on a
second stove until today, so now I'm asking the questions before I bring the VC Resolute in and hook it up
to the other chimney.....I built and insulated the house, and it's about as tight as you can get using conventional methods. So my first question, I guess, is will I starve the stoves if both are burning (not an
every day occurrence) at the same time without bringing in some air from outside? The kit mentioned above
may not be practical, as the basement is finished, and there is stone laid up behind where the first floor stove would go.....no place to pipe it, unless it is a double-wall kit which draws from inside the chimney. Do I need to worry about it?

As for exterior worries, I have none. The Harman burns very clean.....you can't even see smoke most of the time.....very happy with that stove. I have looked long and hard for a second, but appearantly people just don't let them go!

I would think not and issue as the stoves being efficient EPA models and the proper mantaince was kept up on both models as to the combusters are replaced in a proper and timely manor.

Were talking what ..... about 5 grams per hour of emissions coming off both stoves combined. One pre epa stove would put off 35-50 grams per hour of emissions as to 1 out door wood boiler putting off 40 - 80 grams per hour of emissions.

One would be in more danger starting there car and pulling it out of the garage vs the 2 stoves running.

 

[elkimmeg]

the combustion air should be a non issue there should be adequate vollume for each stove on each level

Tell us more about your stove look on the back tag and tell the model ###

From there I can let you know more info about that particular stove

 

[carg3]

Better Safe...thanks for your replies...a very friendly group here. The second stove is a VC resolute. The
back says 1979, but through lurking here a few days I've learned that that was the date of the original casting. The more important date would seem to be the "test date" mentioned on the back, which is 1980.
I don't see any mention of EPA rating....too old for that? (I will have to go to the barn for the serial number, and take the heat shield off again....no time at present.) It is a cat stove, and I would like to find an owner's manual before I even bring it in. Where do I find the paperwork for such an old stove. (The same local dealer does both VC and Jotul, and was very helpful with a blowup diagram and paper on a Jotul 8AP, which
was to be my second stove until I started tearing it down and discovered hairline cracks at the rear....scrap
now, I suppose! I assume he'll be as helpful when it comes to the Resolute, but do dealers carry paperwork
on something this old?)

BTW, you mentioned changing the catalytic convertor regularly. The "afterburner" was going on the Harman,
and none can be found. I have to wait for a new batch to be produced, and the wood consumption is up while
the burn time is down. I hope they get to them soon!

 

[begreen]

carg, this is a great stove. It's pre-EPA. This was my first cast iron stove and I loved it. If you burn cleanly with good dry wood, it's a fine stove. I think I have a pdf of the manual if you need it.

 

[webbie]

Manual for older VC's at the Hearth Wiki
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Vermont_Castings_Older_Stove_Models/

see PDF there. That stove was not a cat -

 

[elkimmeg]

BTW, you mentioned changing the catalytic convertor regularly. The “afterburner” was going on the Harman,
and none can be found. I have to wait for a new batch to be produced, and the wood consumption is up while
the burn time is down. I hope they get to them soon!

I'm trying to figure out what you are talking about here I don't believe there were any cat stoves in 1980 there was one Resolute model that we=awas retrofitted witha cat in the mid 80's for a very limited time. I do no know of any Harmans that were cat stoves either you really have me puzzled

 

[carg3]

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. After reading the pdf of the Resolute manual, I see that it's I who was confused. I thought that any stove with an "afterburner" or baffle system was catalytic. It looks like both
the Harman and Resolute use a technology which allows more volitile gases to burn, which is more efficient
than, say, an old Fisher. Am I getting closer to understanding this? If not, feel free to educate me.

A few questions on the Resolute....if it's not EPA rated, do we know how many grams per hour it will emit?
The handle on the left opens the damper in the stove. With the Harman, that stays open until the chimney
temerature reaches the burn zone, and then I damper it down so the gases go through the baffle system....
same thing with the VC, I would assume? The air intake shutter hangs there, but is not attached. I see the
two holes, and assume I need small nuts and bolts which allow for free movement. Is that what was there
originally? It looks as though I can change from rear to top exit with the just an allen wrench....anything else
I should know about the procedure? If I have read the back plate correctly, the rear clearance, with a protected wall and the heat shield (along with pipe heat shield) is six inches. Is that right? Finally, why the scenic stamping on the rear of the stove, where no one will ever see it?!

P.S.- The stove has been repainted, and I'm not positive, but the serial # seems to be 050431.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. After reading the pdf of the Resolute manual, I see that it's I who was confused. I thought that any stove with an "afterburner" or baffle system was catalytic. It looks like both
the Harman and Resolute use a technology which allows more volitile gases to burn, which is more efficient
than, say, an old Fisher. Am I getting closer to understanding this? If not, feel free to educate me.

.

you are basically correct in how a reburn system works in an EPA unit. essentially , the primary (the wood fire itself) is responsible to create the initial heat from burning the wood, this is the first stage. the second (and IMHO the more important) stage, involves the following; the smoke (gasses hydrocarbons and small particles of unburnt wood) are diverted through a chamber (catalytic combustor)or are trapped briefly in the top of the firebox itself (non-cat), during the time that the gasses are trapped or in the case of a cat stove, passed through the cat,they are subjected to intense heat, at this point secondary combustion air is introduced and this mix causes spontanious combustion of these compounds. this occurs in most any stove when the compounds are able to mix with a stray burst of air in the top of even old fashioned units (this was not by design back then but happens randomly if a really hot fire is going in the unit and drafts are open far enough for surplus air to enter.)EPA units actually are designed to cause this to happen for 2 reasons, first, its cleaner more of the stick is incinerated less goes up the stack, second , it dramatically increases the heat output of the unit (or allows the same temps of a pre EPA unit for a much longer time by essentially starving the primary somewhat, producing more fuel for the secondary) this allows the wood to be consumed more slowly while still burning the wood efficiently