Bigger stove versus second stove?

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BrianK

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Hi folks,
We installed our Woodstock Fireview in our very poorly insulated 80 year old house in February of 2012 and used it for about six weeks that first season. We ran it all last winter and overall I was pleased with the stove. However when the temps get into the lower teens we struggle keeping the house warm enough. Usually I have to kick on the natural gas hot water furnace when it gets that cold. We have a traditional 2 1/2 story house with a fairly open first floor, three bedrooms and a bath on the second floor and full finished attic that serves as the boys' bedroom. The first floor also includes an enclosed and finished front and rear porch. The second floor and attic stay fairly comfortable but the rear of the first floor gets cold due to cold coming up through the floor from the unfinished basement.

I've been seriously considering upgrading to the Progress Hybrid or Union Hybrid when they become available for the extra BTUs during colder spells here in the mountains of west central PA.

However, I stumbled upon a Baker's Choice wood cook stove locally that has had very little use in a hunting cabin for $350 and includes Class A flue and stove pipe. I'm considering picking it up and installing it in the enclosed rear porch room off the kitchen for supplementary heat at the rear of the house and for backup cooking/baking.

Is anyone familiar with these stoves? Any idea how they do for heating or if they use a lot more wood?

This would probably be cheaper than upgrading to one of the new Woodstock stoves and I've always wanted an excuse to install a cook stove.

Thoughts?
 
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I think this is strictly a matter of preference.
For starters, the home would likely be more comfortable if you can do something about the heat loss from the unfinished basement through the floor to the first floor. Is it a full basement with insulated concrete slab, a crawl space with earth floor, or somewhere in between? If a full dry but unfinished basement, you could consider insulating the basement ceiling, hanging an insulated ceiling, or putting thick underlayment and carpeting in the area on the first floor, any of which would mitigate the heat loss problem.

I had the Fireview and upgraded to the PH. (Woodstock might well let you trade in for near full value, which would not make the PH too much more expensive). The difference in heat output is remarkable...in keeping with the difference in rating of 55,000 BTU vs 80,000, using very little if any more wood in the process. So much more heat comes through the large window, I'm sure because of the angled fireback as well as the very large window). With a small fan blowing colder air from the rear of the home, I'm pretty sure the PH would add enough heat to make the back much more comfortable. Nothing but insulation will stop that floor from being cold, but the stove will put out enough heat to heat the air, Also, keep in mind that the PH is an excellent stovetop cooker. One can keep things warm on the soapstone top, or cook slowly on it. Raise the soapstone and one has a full cast iron cooktop, with three different temperature "elements" or areas. I do ALL my cooking on it from shoulder season to shoulder season, except for minimal microwave usage. I even rig an oven on top and do much baking on top.

I understand the desire for a cookstove. I'd love one, mostly for sentimental reasons as my grandmother had a beautiful massive Findley in the country kitchen, but unless you are putting the stove in a kitchen, or adjacent to a kitchen and between the kitchen and dining room, be certain it is in a convenient spot where you will actually use it as a cookstove. Unless you have handy counter space etc, and lots of clearance for the stove, the added need of obtaining and carrying extra firewood for a second stove could be an unnecessary nuisance. Also, unless the enclosed rear porch is well insulated to the outdoors and has a large opening to the kitchen that you can keep open all the time, you might not get much heat out of the porch into the back area of the home. May lose most of it to the outdoors. May even get more cold air into the home opening the door to the rear porch if it is uninsulated and you do not use it regularly in the winter now. Plus you have the cost of installing the stove. And perhaps the cost of a building permit, and perhaps even higher insurance premiums with a second wood heating appliance. And you lose a lot of otherwise useful space in the rear porch. And the necessary hearth for under the new cookstove, as well as the question of whether the porch is built to take the weight off the cookstove, or whether you'd need to reinforce the floor underneath. And is the cookstove efficient or an older/less efficient stove?

The PH slips right onto the hearth where the Fireview was and will connect to the same stovepipe. If you go from rear vent Fireview to top vent PH you do not need to make ANY adjustments to install, and the stove sits a mere 7 inches from the wall, and comes less far into the room than the fireview. A significantly larger stove that produces masses more heat when required, but can easily be burned at low heat output, the PH actually takes less space in the room, sits on the same hearth pad, and provides a far superior viewing ambiance.

I'm pretty sure that when all finances are considered (cost, install cost, hearthpad, time) that the PH upgrade will be less expensive and more satisfactory and enhance your life more, compared to a cabin cookstove. Also think it will continue saving more over its very long life, as you both use much less wood than you would with a second stove, and do less work supplying the wood, and use the PH more for cooking than you would a second stove, continuously saving on gas/electricity vs. present cooking in the kitchen.

I have lots of cast iron cookware, but I went and bought some inexpensive deep blue enameled cookware at Target last year and used the pots and frying pan all season on the PH. Have four, from quite small to a very large pot (maybe 8 quart). They look great on the stove which sits proudly center front in the living room. Paid $100 for all four. They are not heavyweight, but cook just fine on the stove, with no issue of burning despite the fact that they are light.

Long reply, but I hope helpful. Basically, carefully think through all the long term ramifications of your choice, as you'll be living with the stove/stoves for a very long time. Keep in mind, for instance (I have no idea of your age/family situation) that as children grow they demand more time, and keeping two stoves going takes time. As we age, gathering firewood and loading stoves becomes gradually more of a chore. If we suffer a knee or back injury or arm injury, at any time, an extra stove to load is a big hassle and will NOT at such a time be used for cooking.....A PH will last you a lifetime with minimal if any need for rebuild, while the story may be quite different with a used cookstove....Basically, a lot to consider.

The more I think of it, the more I'd lean strongly toward recommending a PH. It's what I would do (did do) in my home. Have had it for two years, after over 6 with a Fireview. Loved my Fireview, but absolutely no regrets.

I think you'd find you'd use the PH a lot more often than the cookstove for cooking, as you'd be heating with it all the time, instead of only on those colder days. No extra wood needed for the cooking. And if you did use it as I do, you'd save enough on power now used for cooking to gradually reimburse you for the added cost of the PH> Plus you'd be getting a beautiful stove with a far superior viewing window compared to the lovely fireview, a stove that will heat your home more quickly and in mild weather uses very little wood to quickly take the chill off a room. A quite small fire once a day does the trick because of the greater amount of heat quickly put out through the window, and the extra mass retaining more heat to slowly radiate. Also, two good loads a day is all you need with the PH, compared to 2 1/2 to 3 with the Fireview when you are heating a larger home. It's surprising how much more convenient and less work/time this involves. Lastly, if you like stews or soups. you can start one the evening before, and let it cook slowly till the following evening, and have it ready to eat when you come home from work, if all adults are out of the home for work each day. nice to come home to a warm dinner.
 
I was thinking the same thing, call Woodstock.

If you have a place for it, I'd snatch up the Baker's Choice just because. It has a pretty small firebox, and I'm sure it's more cookstove than heater, but it would be nice to have.
 
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I was thinking the same thing, call Woodstock.

If you have a place for it, I'd snatch up the Baker's Choice just because. It has a pretty small firebox, and I'm sure it's more cookstove than heater, but it would be nice to have.

I'm going to go ahead and pick up the Baker's Choice tomorrow just to have it.

I will be up in New Hampshire for a wedding in early August so I'm going to try to make a visit to Woodstock while we're there. I hope they'll have the new Union Hybrid developed enough to see it in person. I'll talk to them then about trading up.

My Fireview is In my living room in the front half of the first floor. It's on a hearth pad/floor protector and vents out the wall into a Class A flue. It would be very easy to swap out for a Progress (and I'm assuming it will be just as easy to switch to a Union Hybrid.)
 
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Rideau has a lot of good points, I will say good luck in deciding what you want, either choice will be nice to have.i would insulate that basement ceiling first and foremost no matter what you decide, that should help you significantly. I had same problem in my living room, the heat wouldn't get to the room on cold days cause the pipes were in the basement in the ceiling, I insulated pipes, ceiling etc. world of difference in room temps even with no heat on in winter. Insulate first, it is cheap and easy job that will save money or at least not be as cold as it is now.....let us know what you decide
 
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I think this is strictly a matter of preference.

...

I think you'd find you'd use the PH a lot more often than the cookstove for cooking, as you'd be heating with it all the time, instead of only on those colder days. No extra wood needed for the cooking. And if you did use it as I do, you'd save enough on power now used for cooking to gradually reimburse you for the added cost of the PH> Plus you'd be getting a beautiful stove with a far superior viewing window compared to the lovely fireview, a stove that will heat your home more quickly and in mild weather uses very little wood to quickly take the chill off a room. A quite small fire once a day does the trick because of the greater amount of heat quickly put out through the window, and the extra mass retaining more heat to slowly radiate. Also, two good loads a day is all you need with the PH, compared to 2 1/2 to 3 with the Fireview when you are heating a larger home. It's surprising how much more convenient and less work/time this involves. Lastly, if you like stews or soups. you can start one the evening before, and let it cook slowly till the following evening, and have it ready to eat when you come home from work, if all adults are out of the home for work each day. nice to come home to a warm dinner.

Great reply, thanks. The rear room is just off the kitchen and it is finished and insulated. It just looks like an addition from the inside of the house. It has a large doorway and an open window into the kitchen and dining room area so moving heat from there into the rest of the first floor is not an issue.

How did you rig a stove on top of your Progress?
 
When we moved into our current house, I brought our Jotul Oslo with us. It just wasn't enough fire power for our new house, so I bought a Blaze King. It did great! But since then I sold it and added a second stove in the living room. We have been much happier since adding a second stove, the house heats so much easier!

We were initially trying to heat the house from the family room at the end of the house, now the Cape Cod is centrally located in the living room. Unless your Fireview is centrally located, a second stove might be the way to go. If it is centrally located then I would just go bigger.
 
I rigged a stove by building an oven out of soapstone, like a child building a tower.

I've talked with Woodstock about building a permanent one for me, and they were going to look into it last summer during their off season, but they've been really busy so I have not pushed. Will probably follow up on it, or build one myself next summer. Meanwhile, what I'm doing works. I have lots of extra soapstone slabs I bought when I had the Fireview, that I use for bed warmers, so no shortage of soapstone to work with. Also, potatoes wrapped in foil and surrounded by soapstone bake with such an amazing flavor they are to die for....especially when you use home grown potatoes.
 
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I rigged a stove by building an oven out of soapstone, like a child building a tower.

I've talked with Woodstock about building a permanent one for me, and they were going to look into it last summer during their off season, but they've been really busy so I have not pushed. Will probably follow up on it, or build one myself next summer. Meanwhile, what I'm doing works. I have lots of extra soapstone slabs I bought when I had the Fireview, that I use for bed warmers, so no shortage of soapstone to work with. Also, potatoes wrapped in foil and surrounded by soapstone bake with such an amazing flavor they are to die for....especially when you use home grown potatoes.

Thanks. That's what I meant to ask, how you rigged an oven on top of the Progress. I've looked at the metal ovens that go on top of wood stoves at Lehman's but was t sure how well they would heat up on top of the Fireview.
 
I'm going to go ahead and pick up the Baker's Choice tomorrow just to have it.

I will be up in New Hampshire for a wedding in early August so I'm going to try to make a visit to Woodstock while we're there. I hope they'll have the new Union Hybrid developed enough to see it in person. I'll talk to them then about trading up.

My Fireview is In my living room in the front half of the first floor. It's on a hearth pad/floor protector and vents out the wall into a Class A flue. It would be very easy to swap out for a Progress (and I'm assuming it will be just as easy to switch to a Union Hybrid.)

I like this option. Contact Woody at Obidiah's for some helpful points on the stove. They sell Baker's Choice. Personally if I had a good place for a wood cookstove I would put one in. I love cooking on a wood cookstove. They are not really meant as area heaters, but they do that job pretty well. My preference would be toward a heavier stove, but you can't beat the price you are getting. I think it will supplement the Fireview nicely. Put the savings into tightening up the old place and insulating. That is going to give you the most bang for your buck.
 
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Personally if I had a good place for a wood cookstove I would put one in. I love cooking on a wood cookstove. They are not really meant as area heaters, but they do that job pretty well. My preference would be toward a heavier stove, but you can't beat the price you are getting. I think it will supplement the Fireview nicely. Put the savings into tightening up the old place and insulating. That is going to give you the most bang for your buck.

That's a really good idea. The rear room is just off the kitchen and will serve well for a cook stove room. We do need new windows and a front door as well as insulation. There's been an ongoing discussion around our dinner table regarding the costs of insulating the whole house and installing new windows versus the time and labor to CSS extra wood for burning. The wood is "free." All it costs is labor, gas and oil for the equipment to CSS. The new windows and insulation ain't free.

I just edited a novel for a friend and in appreciation he paid me for my time. It turned out to be enough to cover the cost of the Baker's Choice and the gas to go get it and bring it home from 115 miles away. (And I saved him three times that amount versus what a professional book editor quoted him.)
 
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Do sealing and insulation first, it will payback the fastest. And it will pay back all year round with a quieter house that is easier to cool as well as heat. You can put up temporary plastic storms or indoor heat shrink storms while saving for the windows. We did this for 13 yrs before finally springing for new glass.
 
Brian, it is easily understandable why you wanted that cookstove. You will love it. And if you get a Progress, that too has the cook top so you'll have the best of both worlds. Good luck.
 
Brian, it is easily understandable why you wanted that cookstove. You will love it. And if you get a Progress, that too has the cook top so you'll have the best of both worlds. Good luck.

Thanks Dennis. I suspect the combo of the Fireview and the Baker's Choice is going to satisfy our needs for the time being. It's no money out of pocket (since as I noted above I got paid enough for a project I did for a friend to cover buying the cook stove which comes with the stove pipe and Class A flue included in the price.) I can build a hearth pad for it and the same friend who helped me install the Class A flue for my Fireview will give me a hand with the flue for the cook stove.

The biggest problem now is taking back part of the back room for the cook stove. My 18 year old daughter uses that room as her craft and sewing room and isn't very excited about losing a big chunk of her space to a cook stove.
 
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I rigged a stove by building an oven out of soapstone, like a child building a tower.

I've talked with Woodstock about building a permanent one for me, and they were going to look into it last summer during their off season, but they've been really busy so I have not pushed. Will probably follow up on it, or build one myself next summer. Meanwhile, what I'm doing works. I have lots of extra soapstone slabs I bought when I had the Fireview, that I use for bed warmers, so no shortage of soapstone to work with. Also, potatoes wrapped in foil and surrounded by soapstone bake with such an amazing flavor they are to die for....especially when you use home grown potatoes.
Can you show us pcs please....
 
Thanks Dennis. I suspect the combo of the Fireview and the Baker's Choice is going to satisfy our needs for the time being. It's no money out of pocket (since as I noted above I got paid enough for a project I did for a friend to cover buying the cook stove which comes with the stove pipe and Class A flue included in the price.) I can build a hearth pad for it and the same friend who helped me install the Class A flue for my Fireview will give me a hand with the flue for the cook stove.

The biggest problem now is taking back part of the back room for the cook stove. My 18 year old daughter uses that room as her craft and sewing room and isn't very excited about losing a big chunk of her space to a cook stove.
I say teach her how to cook, she might like it too....
 
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I say teach her how to cook, she might like it too....

She's knows how to cook and loves historical fiction from frontier days and has always daydreamed about living in colonial times - so this should be a good opportunity to learn some traditional cooking methods. She just doesn't like the whole wood burning lifestyle. She thinks all that CSSing and carrying logs and building fires and emptying ash should be up to the boys. Now if the boys bring in the logs for the Baker's Choice and build and maintain a fire for her I'm sure she'd be mighty handy with this cook stove. But she'd have never made it in colonial times ;-)
 
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Part of the equation is how you can distribute the heat around that first floor, regardless of which model stove you have or will have. Will one stove accomplish that? If so, a larger heater stove is certainly a good option.

But that aside, the wood cookstove is a great idea. Or, I think so. See my avatar.... Our cookstove not only heats half of our home, but it is also our only indoor baking appliance. We have a propane countertop set of burners, but in the winter, with the cookstove going, we use that stovetop more than the propane one, as it is always hot. True, they are not "designed" for being room heaters, but they do a very nice job of that, nontheless.

Summers, when the days are hot, I tend to bake outdoors on our Weber grill. It cooks bread, pizza, anything just fine, keeping the heat outdoors. But, once you really get into baking in and cooking atop the cookstove, you might just find you love it. I do, been doing it for forty yr. or more. Just because I like it. For a lot less $$, I could, of course, buy a propane range. I'll stick with the cookstove.
 
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I picked up the Baker's Choice yesterday. Its a 1994 model so it does not have the two knob air adjustments on the left hand side of the stove. Apparently before they added these knobs, the ash tray door also served as air control?

However, it was only used once a year for deer season in a tiny 15' x 20' deer camp so it doesn't appear to have been used much at all or abused. (If it was ever overfired it would have made that tiny little camp an oven.) The current owner is converting the camp to all electric due to insurance hassles. He had it listed for $600 originally, then progressively lowered the price. The camp is so remote in the Allegheny National Forest I think he couldn't get anybody to come out to look at it. I paid $350, which I thought was reasonable. He threw in 2 heat shields and a bag of coal too.


The stove calls for a 7" flue. I can find 6" Class A chimney a lot cheaper. Its going to be about 22" of flue, straight up. Is there any reason to go with 7" over 6" for such a small firebox?
 
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Send a pic of the bakers choice when you get a chance...thanks
 
I'd ask Obidiah's about the flue. You'll want a good draft when it's in oven heating mode.

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstoves.net/cookstoves/bakerschoice.htm)
 
Wow that's nice..... Have fun with it
 
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