BK Ashford 30 in unfinished basement

[Highbeam]

This sounds like why BK bumped up the minimum flue system height a bit after your Princess was installed. Have you tried adding 3 ft of warm air pipe as a temporary test to see if that reduces spillage?

My owner's manual requires/recommends 12' of flue which is what I have. I have no desire to add 3' of flue because I'm already at the maximum height before roof braces would be required and honestly, it would look stupid having such a tall pipe on a single story home. I think the extra draft strength would likely improve my experience but it's pretty great already. I get no smoke during cold starts.

I'm not sure whether the recent change to 15' was just to avoid spillage during hot reloads or due to an actual design change. Maybe just an attempt to have a gotcha when owners call the tech line to complain of spillage. Similar to how the thermostat dial doesn't have numbers anymore.

Like many on this forum have described, there are some tricks to help minimize the spillage but the BK design is much less friendly for those wanting to swing open the loading door and load without stinking up the place compared to a noncat. It's just a trade off. Worth it for me.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, Highbeam's stove is a lot older. IIRC back then, the old minimum was 12 ft.

You make me feel old. It's a 2012 model and only required 12' back then. I have 12' all vertical. It's only 12.5 year old stove though the paint is starting to fail.

 

[begreen]

You make me feel old. It's a 2012 model and only required 12' back then. I have 12' all vertical. It's only 12.5 year old stove though the paint is starting to fail.

LOL, my bones remind me frequently, I am old.

 

[all night moe]

LOL, my bones remind me frequently, I am old.

That's what the stoves are for. Warm them bones.
I'm not as old but, of age. My old injuries make me feel much older.

 

[Tar13]

So how is it heating your basement?

 

[Sim]

As a current burner of two stoves and a previous stone noncat where my princess sits now, the non BKs haven't spilled a whiff of smoke. My theory is that less efficient stoves send more heat up the stack and are able to gulp more room air without burping smoke out into the room.

The BK easily spills smoke when loading. It's pretty bad and hard to prevent at any stage of the combustion cycle. I might agree that it is the nature of the BK design with the bypass opening lower than the door top. Or maybe the bypass is just too small for to avoid spillage.

Do you know if the newer bks still have this problem or has it been addressed? I've been reading that this is just what blaze kings do because of the lower flue temp and inability to sustain a strong draft.

 

[stoveliker]

I posit that it depends on the installation.
Spillage is due to draft strength (sufficient draft sucks smoke up the flue). Have sufficient draft (i.e. a flue design that doesn't cut draft to strengths that are too low) and there's no spillage.

I have no issues with spillage.

 

[Highbeam]

Do you know if the newer bks still have this problem or has it been addressed? I've been reading that this is just what blaze kings do because of the lower flue temp and inability to sustain a strong draft.

The BK design maintains lower flue temps to increase efficiency and I do believe that this is a factor. Along with low flow rates through the chimney because they actually use minimal combustion air unlike the flood of air for a noncat. That's why opening the large door on a burning fire can be a problem for smoke rollout. I have no smoke rollout issues with cold starts.

I also currently burn a noncat with a lot of single wall pipe and I can swing open the loading door anytime with no smoke rollout. It is also much less efficient and that extra heat and flow up the chimney creates a stronger suction.

I do not think this issue has been addressed by stove design changes. I do believe that the extra tall chimney requirement is an attempt to address this as well as the rule for no bends until a certain height above the stove. It's a fine line, you don't want too much draft either. These are the Ferraris of woodstoves, to get such high performance there are some tradeoffs.

I would trade a couple percent in efficiency to solve this issue and make the user experience better. Currently, to get the awesome thermostat and low burn rates, BK is the only place.

 

[Tron]

Along with low flow rates through the chimney because they actually use minimal combustion air unlike the flood of air for a noncat. That's why opening the large door on a burning fire can be a problem for smoke rollout. I have no smoke rollout issues with cold starts.

Isn't that what the "cat cooldown" before a reload also does? I turn the thermostat to high and open the bypass a few minutes before a reload, that usually gets the coals going again and raises flue temperature and draft. So no issues with smoke rollout, either.

 

[Highbeam]

Isn't that what the "cat cooldown" before a reload also does? I turn the thermostat to high and open the bypass a few minutes before a reload, that usually gets the coals going again and raises flue temperature and draft. So no issues with smoke rollout, either.

That actually makes it worse for me. Flaring up the remaining wood makes more smoke that isn't getting sucked up fast enough.

 

[Tron]

That actually makes it worse for me. Flaring up the remaining wood makes more smoke that isn't getting sucked up fast enough.

Interesting. For me, that doesn't happen, it does only make reloading harder because of suddenly elevated temperatures, but that's about it.
At that point in the burn, all that should be left of the wood is coals, so 99+% carbon, and that normally doesn't smoke all that much.

 

[Highbeam]

Interesting. For me, that doesn't happen, it does only make reloading harder because of suddenly elevated temperatures, but that's about it.
At that point in the burn, all that should be left of the wood is coals, so 99+% carbon, and that normally doesn't smoke all that much.

Not all of us wait until the last coals are dwindling to reload. That, or a cold stove, are when there's no issue with rollout for me.

When it's really cold and I have to do a hot reload on a 12 hour cycle the firebox is still quite full. It's more about schedule. Those reloads are the worst, when the box is half full. Brief door opening, partial door opening, is about the best I can do to reduce rollout. The door is really big on these stoves and the bypass opening is pretty low so the open door makes a pretty good chimney alternative.

 

[begreen]

Do you know if the newer bks still have this problem or has it been addressed? I've been reading that this is just what blaze kings do because of the lower flue temp and inability to sustain a strong draft.

This might be more of an issue with the Princess due to the back sloped front face. I seem to recall it being less of an issue with the other vertical-faced models.

 

[Tron]

Those reloads are the worst, when the box is half full.

Maybe your model is a bit different. I, too, have reloaded when the box is half full with glowing coals (can only get three large splits in there when that's the case, but what do you do when you're heading out the door or to bed). The heat is intense, but I don't really get smoke rollout.

 

[stoveliker]

Maybe your model is a bit different. I, too, have reloaded when the box is half full with glowing coals (can only get three large splits in there when that's the case, but what do you do when you're heading out the door or to bed). The heat is intense, but I don't really get smoke rollout.

Same here for the same stove with a different (basement) set up.

 

[BKVP]

The actual installation design is the leading contributor to spillage. Time and time again, testimonials on this site included, following the guidelines in the manual drastically minimize the chance of spillage. An poorly installed stove will spill, regardless.

Think back to the visitors to this site that swapped out single wall and the problem was cured. Or, the next person that added 3' of pipe to get to the minimum. Or the guy that dumped a King or Princess into a masonry chimney with no liner, that then added the liner and like magic, it worked so much better.

There are always going to be challenging installations. True, more heat loss up the stack can help reduce the likelihood of spillage, but nothing helps more than installing it correctly from the beginning. And I get it the fact that everything is so expensive and wanting to make that existing chimney system work and if it does super. But if it doesn't read the manual. It does help frequently to adhere to the recommendations.

BKVP

 

[Tron]

Looks like we did the install correctly, then.
Here's what I mean: firebox half-full with coals, thermostat wide open, bypass open. Zero smoke, so nothing really there to spill.