BK Ashford stove issues

[Tron]

Modern americans are not interested in telephone calls, we reward companies that embrace current times and get an online parts ordering system. A "buy it now" button.

Another advantage of that is that the customer can be sure, if he does his due diligence, of course, that he actually gets the correct part.
I can't count the times that I have been unable to get the person on the other end of the phone to write down stuff correctly...

 

[Murray01]

Another good option is calling BK, they should be able to provide technical information. Even the owner's manuals are pretty good. The dealer is the last place I'd go as they specialize in selling new stoves like a car salesman.

A few years ago I contacted BK Canada and their representative was full of answers. We had a couple of phone conversations, probably an hour or so between the two calls, he answered all my questions plus a whole lot of questions that I didn’t ask but should have. I was very impressed with the knowledge shared and some suggestions offered.

 

[Highbeam]

A few years ago I contacted BK Canada and their representative was full of answers. We had a couple of phone conversations, probably an hour or so between the two calls, he answered all my questions plus a whole lot of questions that I didn’t ask but should have. I was very impressed with the knowledge shared and some suggestions offered.

I known I wrote that the new generations don't like telephone calls and then the next sentence I wrote that you should call tech support if needed. Sounds kinda funny but there is a time for a phone call, ordering parts is not it. I would not call a dealer for tech support. Likely that they've never even run a BK stove.

 

[Ashful]

I see I got @Highbeam going... like kicking a hornet's nest.

I don't mind having to call, but it usually takes me a week or two to get around to it, as it seems the dealership closes each day before the mad dash that is my every working day, ends. I always seem to remember that I failed to call the dealer (again), when I'm reloading the stove each evening.

On my own case, they did call me back two days ago, but I was on another call, so had to let it go to voicemail. I've been running around like a one-armed paperhanger the last two days, so I haven't had a chance to return their call and get the parts on order.

I have time to burn at 11pm, when my work day finally winds down and I turn on the TV and do my Amazon shopping. It's significantly harder to find a free ten minutes to call while the store is open, but I'll get that done at some point, soon.

 

[tabner]

If you read @Ashful 's post in this thread you will see that this is not always the case.

Honestly I have had better luck and did manage to get it done with one call to a dealer but it was just a simple part.

Modern americans are not interested in telephone calls, we reward companies that embrace current times and get an online parts ordering system. A "buy it now" button.

Yeah, my dealer always takes down the message and says someone will call me back with pricing when they get in touch with BK. Assuming I get someone on the phone there, and assuming they get back to me without me having to chase them down (it’s usually a day or two for them to call me back) then I give them the green light to order it, and then they have to call me when it comes in (with me potentially calling a few times to check since things do fall through the cracks these days).
It’s not a big deal. Totally worth it to have a BK stove. But I agree, in today’s world where customer service at most shops is abysmal, it is a little annoying to have to rely on the knowledge, gumption, and commitment of a 22 year old making minimum wage at the parts counter.

 

[Ashful]

My goodness, it's been a busy winter! I've been working 7 days per week, 12+ hours everyday, with only one day off since Christmas.

In any case, I got a quote from a local dealer on BK combusters... only $900 per pair, plus another $100 for shipping! An even $1000 for a pair of cat's.

Anyone got a good source for ceramic combustors that fit Ashford 30's? Criticize the ones from Midwest Hearth if you like, but at dealer prices, it's honestly cheaper to Amazon new cat's from Midwest every second year, than hope for 3 - 4 years from an OEM cat.

While you're at it, if anyone knows of a reasonable alternate source for BK door gaskets, I'm all ears. I just don't want to deal with BK's dealers anymore, as a matter of principle. Maybe Amazon has spoiled me, but I don't expect to pay $200 for 15 feet of rope gasket shipped to my door, which is what the BK dealer wants.

Again, a matter of principle, more than dollars.

 

[stoveliker]

I'd just buy cats from Midwest.
The new cats from BK are not the same they shipped with the stove anyway (given their new coating or so). So technically not allowed to put in the ones they sell now anyway? 😁

Gaskets I don't know. It seems the BK ones are thicker than ones available elsewhere?

 

[Ashful]

The rub is that I suspect those Midwest cats will last every bit as long as any from BK, once I get the door gaskets replaced. I'm going on 11 years on the original gaskets, mostly just because I don't want to take the time to do the job, and I guess partly out of curiousity over how long I could run a single gasket. I suspect the reason both cats distorted or crumbled in the last year, despite never having trouble with them before, is the door gaskets are finally past their prime.

I have to admit, the OEM gaskets performed well, for at least 10 years. A heck of a lot more than I could say for my Jotul cast stoves, which seemed to need each gasket re-glued almost every 2nd year.

Still... $200 for a pair of door gaskets shipped to my door? I can afford it, but I don't like dealing with companies who think they can charge ridiculous fees, just because they're the only source. If I have to go thru the dealer, because it's the only option, then that's what I'll do. But I won't be singing BK's praises over that, either.

I was a huge fan of these stoves, when new. But having no real "local" dealerships, and then almost exclusively bad experiences with their few within a 2-hour round trip, I honestly wouldn't recommend BK to my neighbors today. They just have too few dealerships to support their "dealers only" model for parts supply, and those within an afternoon's round trip haven't been very good.

If they ever get to a true online parts supply with door gaskets under $200 and cats under $1000/pair, either factory direct or thru someone like Amazon, I'd be right back on the band wagon. Great stoves, it's only the parts supply that has me totally turned off on the brand, right now.

 

[Murray01]

The rub is that I suspect those Midwest cats will last every bit as long as any from BK, once I get the door gaskets replaced. I'm going on 11 years on the original gaskets, mostly just because I don't want to take the time to do the job, and I guess partly out of curiousity over how long I could run a single gasket. I suspect the reason both cats distorted or crumbled in the last year, despite never having trouble with them before, is the door gaskets are finally past their prime.

I have to admit, the OEM gaskets performed well, for at least 10 years. A heck of a lot more than I could say for my Jotul cast stoves, which seemed to need each gasket re-glued almost every 2nd year.

Still... $200 for a pair of door gaskets shipped to my door? I can afford it, but I don't like dealing with companies who think they can charge ridiculous fees, just because they're the only source. If I have to go thru the dealer, because it's the only option, then that's what I'll do. But I won't be singing BK's praises over that, either.

I was a huge fan of these stoves, when new. But having no real "local" dealerships, and then almost exclusively bad experiences with their few within a 2-hour round trip, I honestly wouldn't recommend BK to my neighbors today. They just have too few dealerships to support their "dealers only" model for parts supply, and those within an afternoon's round trip haven't been very good.

If they ever get to a true online parts supply with door gaskets under $200 and cats under $1000/pair, either factory direct or thru someone like Amazon, I'd be right back on the band wagon. Great stoves, it's only the parts supply that has me totally turned off on the brand, right now.

At those prices BK will be losing customers!

 

[Highbeam]

Anyone got a good source for ceramic combustors that fit Ashford 30's? Criticize the ones from Midwest Hearth if you like, but at dealer prices, it's honestly cheaper to Amazon new cat's from Midwest every second year, than hope for 3 - 4 years from an OEM cat.

I don't recall anyone ever criticizing the midwest cats. They are made in USA by the same people making BK OEM cats. No reason to think they aren't exactly the same thing. In fact, they advertise as being the best available as all sellers do.

My most recent midwest ceramic cat has actually lasted almost 3 years now for a record. Maybe they got the improved coating since, after all, they may be the same cat as BK sells.

 

[Highbeam]

My goodness, it's been a busy winter! I've been working 7 days per week, 12+ hours everyday, with only one day off since Christmas.

Holy smokes man, that's rough. I hope you can get that back down to a reasonable amount.

 

[kborndale]

I don't recall anyone ever criticizing the midwest cats. They are made in USA by the same people making BK OEM cats. No reason to think they aren't exactly the same thing. In fact, they advertise as being the best available as all sellers do.

My most recent midwest ceramic cat has actually lasted almost 3 years now for a record. Maybe they got the improved coating since, after all, they may be the same cat as BK sells.

The only one that has criticized the Midwest cats was BKVP.

 

[Highbeam]

The only one that has criticized the Midwest cats was BKVP.

As the seller of the BK cats we can expect that. I recall he is usually very careful with how he words things to not actually criticize another vendor's product directly.

I asked if there was any actual difference and he couldn't come up with one. No data, no different recipe, nothing. That's cool, some people buy their oil and filters from the car dealerships at a huge markup too. Free market.

It would be super cool if somebody could invent a cat that would last twice as long as the current stuff. For that, I would pay twice as much. Until then, no thanks.

 

[BKVP]

The only one that has criticized the Midwest cats was BKVP.

I did not criticize the company or products. I pointed out the degree of precious metals applied with the washcoat is not the same as the higher degree used in OEM cat in stove. This makes them less costly to manufacture and retail price prices are correspondingly lower than OEM cats.

EPA requires a manufacturer to only sell the exact same combustor as used in the certification process/testing. You're able to read the publicly available NSPS from March 16, 2015.

There is zero requirement of coating levels in aftermarket cats. As I pointed out before, do or do not trust this information.

BKVP

 

[Ashful]

I did not criticize the company or products. I pointed out the degree of precious metals applied with the washcoat is not the same as the higher degree used in OEM cat in stove. This makes them less costly to manufacture and retail price prices are correspondingly lower than OEM cats.

EPA requires a manufacturer to only sell the exact same combustor as used in the certification process/testing. You're able to read the publicly available NSPS from March 16, 2015.

There is zero requirement of coating levels in aftermarket cats. As I pointed out before, do or do not trust this information.

BKVP

Hi Chris,

Does coating level impact initial performance or lifespan? Maybe both, but is one the greater impact/concern?

If lifespan, do we have data on how many cats fail due to depletion of coating, versus other mechanical failures?

Thanks!

 

[BKVP]

Hi Chris,

Does coating level impact initial performance or lifespan? Maybe both, but is one the greater impact/concern?

If lifespan, do we have data on how many cats fail due to depletion of coating, versus other mechanical failures?

Thanks!

It does not related to any failure issues. The "complaint" from this thread is access and pricing. Heavy, more costly precious metals coatings result in cleaner burning stove tests and real world performance.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

My question is the following.
You've stated before (in metal vs ceramic debates) that one should only put a replacement cat in that is the same as the one it shipped with.

Is the cat that BK sells now the same (in coatings ) as the ones stoves shipped with in 2018?

 

[BKVP]

Not necessarily. We use specific mixes/blends for specific models. When we get into development of a new model, we also explore new cats.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

Okay thanks.

Then the whole discussion about coatings and what the EPA requires is moot; it's not necessarily the same anyway.

 

[BKVP]

Okay thanks.

Then the whole discussion about coatings and what the EPA requires is moot; it's not necessarily the same anyway.

But....it influences pricing.

BKVP

 

[Ashful]

It does not related to any failure issues. The "complaint" from this thread is access and pricing. Heavy, more costly precious metals coatings result in cleaner burning stove tests and real world performance.

BKVP

Understood. But for those of us who care only about burn times, and not so much about emissions, is there really a justification for paying $1000 for a pair of OEM cats versus $480 for a pair from Midwest? That's not a small price gap on a consumable item, just for the sake of feeling a little extra-virtuous.

 

[Ashful]

Just ordered two new cat's from Midwest.

Might just have to break down and pay the $200 for door gaskets from dealer. Not a big deal, just a matter of minor irritation.

My Jotuls were inferior stoves in every way, but I don't think I ever paid even one tenth that amount for a few feet of door gasket, for those stoves.

 

[Highbeam]

Understood. But for those of us who care only about burn times, and not so much about emissions, is there really a justification for paying $1000 for a pair of OEM cats versus $480 for a pair from Midwest? That's not a small price gap on a consumable item, just for the sake of feeling a little extra-virtuous.

Of course midwest says the same thing, that theirs are actually the best on the market and without any sort of actual data we just have to trust a salesman.

I have found zero difference in real world performance or life expectancy between midwest and BK cats because, as I think you'll discover, they are the same thing. Or giving BKVP the benefit of the doubt they are substantially the same. Maybe it's just a nuance like the BK cat recipe results in 0.01 gph difference in invisible emissions.

Oddly, there are new even cheaper foreign made catalysts on amazon now. I like the midwest cat so much that I don't expect to experiment with them but somebody will I'm sure.

 

[Ashful]

I have found zero difference in real world performance or life expectancy between midwest and BK cats because, as I think you'll discover, they are the same thing.

Already have. These aren't my first Midwest cats, in fact the pair I've been running the last two years were from Midwest. I also haven't noticed any difference in real-world performance.

I'm not sitting atop my chimney with a particle detector, maybe that's where the difference counts, and that might matter to some people in other regions more than me. As long as I can turn the stove down to my required burn rate without stalling the thing or gunking up my chimney, that's honestly all that matters to me.

I do believe my current pair failed due to leaky door gaskets, or because I've grown a little to lax with my operating procedures, not because they were made by Midwest. The failures were purely mechanical, distortion of the can and cracking of the ceramic, likekly due to overheating.

Again, if anyone has a reasonable gasket alternative, I'm all ears. Looking for some place I can point my mouse and click "buy now", with a shipping fee under $100 for ground service. No complaints on the BK gasket quality, it's actually impressive how long it performed its task, I'm just not loving the idea of sending any business to the local dealer.

 

[Highbeam]

Already have. These aren't my first Midwest cats, in fact the pair I've been running the last two years were from Midwest. I also haven't noticed any difference in real-world performance.

I'm not sitting atop my chimney with a particle detector, maybe that's where the difference counts, and that might matter to some people in other regions more than me. As long as I can turn the stove down to my required burn rate without stalling the thing or gunking up my chimney, that's honestly all that matters to me.

I do believe my current pair failed due to leaky door gaskets, or because I've grown a little to lax with my operating procedures, not because they were made by Midwest. The failures were purely mechanical, distortion of the can and cracking of the ceramic, likekly due to overheating.

Again, if anyone has a reasonable gasket alternative, I'm all ears. Looking for some place I can point my mouse and click "buy now", with a shipping fee under $100 for ground service. No complaints on the BK gasket quality, it's actually impressive how long it performed its task, I'm just not loving the idea of sending any business to the local dealer.

Another poster provided this when he had the same problem as you. I've not personally used them yet but my door gasket was only 30$ from BK the last time I replaced it.

Blaze King Stove Parts - Hechler’s Mainstreet Hearth & Home | Troy, Missouri

Original OEM Factory Replacement Blaze King Parts

hechlers.com