Blaze King Chinook 20 Sirocco 20 vs Chinook 30 Sirocco 30?

[Andrew Robinson]

Greetings,

We are building a super efficient home and intend to heat it entirely with wood.

HOT2000 (software that models energy usage in homes) says that our 1300 sq ft home will require 6.5 kW (22,000 BTU/hr) on a -45 C (-49 F) day.

Here, in Yellowknife, we do get a few weeks of -40 every winter, but we also get months of -25 C (-13 F) and more months of -10 C, which would require about 11,000 BTU/hr.

I am looking at the Blaze King Chinook line and I am surprised to see that both the 20 and the 30 have roughly the same heat output range (~ 12,000 BTU/h up to ~30,000 BTU/h). The main differences appear to be price, firebox size (1.8 cu ft vs 2.75 cu ft) and burn-times.

So, I'm thinking I should get the 30 for the longer burn-times, but I wonder if the larger firebox would require larger fires to get the stove up to operating temperature during the shoulder seasons? And could this lead to overheating?

Anyone got experience on this? Does a smaller firebox make it easier to get the catalytic stove up to operating temp for short periods during the shoulder seasons? Does a large firebox require a large fire and lead to over heating?

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Stump shot]

Go with the 30 series fire box. If it does start to overheat the house, just do a smaller fuel load in the stove. Some folks also just open a window to maintain temps in the house.

 

[Highbeam]

Correct, choose the 30. There is no logical reason to choose the 20 size stove except for the slightly smaller physical size if that is needed in your space. These cat stoves respond well to small fires. In fact, they respond extremely well compared to a non-cat. It is tough to heat a small/efficient home with wood due to the pulse and glide output of most woodstoves. Low output capability of the cat stoves is a very important benefit.

 

[Poindexter]

I think you are choosing between two really good stoves. If you have any kids at home, even college age, go for the 30. Until they get out on their own and start paying their own bills kids leave doors open and all other kinda kid stuff.

With no kids you are at a toss up.

I have a 30 sized box, an Ashford30, running in about 1200 sqft of 5star energy rated just west of you. In shoulder season I have no problem burning dry spruce - big pieces of it, like two or three splits fill the firebox and then run it on "low" with only the surfaces of the wood directly facing each other lit, the rest of the wood just waiting its turn to burn.

I haven't seen -20dF yet this winter.(first season with the stove) to comment, but in the +10dF to -10dF regime I have been in for the last two weeks or so I fill the box with mixed birch and spruce, maybe 12-16 small splits, get it roaring, shut it down to low, let it run 12-18 hours or so, then wrangle the coals at the back to the front of the stove and get another 2-4 hours out of the first load before I add more wood.

I have only started burning my coals down at the front of the stove this week. If I reload when I get down to coals ash builds up pretty quick even running 12-16% MC. When it gets to -42 here I suspect I will do hot full reloads and deal with significant ash accumulation on the weekends.

I will say about the 30 it really likes wood from 12-16% MC per electronic gizmo. It will burn wood at 20%, but it makes a lot of ash doing it. I am splitting wood for next winter now and hope you are too. I suspect in a typical winter I -could- heat my house entirely with wood burning ~about~ seven cords, say three of spruce and four of birch. But I have oil backup furnace. Without the backup I would be comfortable with about 4 cords of spruce and 6 cords of birch ready to go, and I would be getting 3-5 years ahead ASAP.

Overall, easier to build a 20 sized fire in a 30 box than vice versa. My Ashford 30 is kinda fussy above freezing, but it will run. From freezing down to zero dF it starts acting like a proper stove, and below zero dF mine really settles down and hits its stride. Ambient outdoor temperatures seem to be an important variable in the draft equation. Did I mention you want your cordwood down to 16% or less?

 

[Andrew Robinson]

Thanks for the replies - especially nice to hear from Fairbanks - once of the few places in North America with a climate similar to Yellowknife.

Sounds like the 30 is the way to go - we have the space.

I'm curious about the suggestion that it would take 10 cords to heat a house in Fairbanks over the winter. The HOT2000 software says we will need 8,000 lb of wood, which, worst case (dry spruce), would be about 4 cords. But that is with 13 inch, R-50 walls, R-60 ceiling & floor.

We're going with wood, partly to have an excuse to get outside and enjoy the great outdoors, but 10 cords would be a stretch.

I'll post an update next winter when we actually have the house finished.

 

[Poindexter]

If I keep the house above 80dF (about 27C) the wife doesn't talk about moving to Los Angeles. Once the house is above 85dF (about 29C) I can't hardly sleep in here. You didn't mention your target temperature...

I am in about R 30walls with R60 in the attic. I don't know what my floor is , but it is definitely not anywhere near 60. Maybe R20ish. I have my air leaks pretty well under control, pretty close to the tipping point for needing (not quite yet) some kind of outside air intake. If your kids are out and you are sealed up well enough to utilize a heat exchanger like an HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilation) system you might very well get away with a size 20.

For shoulder season I am serious about two or three splits of spruce big enough to pretty well fill the box, 15-20cm on each of three sides of each split. Get two of them in the floor making a valley, pile some kindling in the valley light that up and then maybe a moderate size spruce split on top of the kindling to help heat up the cat. Once the cat is active leave the thermostat/ air control on high - you'll have a hot enough fire to just barely keep the cat active, but a small enough fire to not roast yourself out. After a few hours when the valley gets real big flip the one in the back onto the one at the front so the two burning faces are against each other and let it go a few more hours.

They're a great stove, they just don't work the same as the old ones.

 

[weatherguy]

You may get away with 4 cords once your experienced with the stove but you have to allow for your learning curve, maybe count on 5 cords until you get it dialed in.

 

[Poindexter]

How are you heatin your domestic hot water?

Also, I ran 8 cords through a EPA cert non-cat last year. I am burning "less" wood this winter, but I don't know how much less. Noticeably less for sure.

If it is going to be my fault I would rather you finish the winter wth two cords left over, rather than have to pay for two cords seasoned in Feb/Mar.

 

[Andrew Robinson]

27 / 80 !? Sounds like a sauna to me ... we are aiming for 22/72. But it is hard to convince people to stay up here in the cold, so we all do what we need to do

And we also are aiming for a very air-tight envelope and will be using an HRV ... but that is all still in theory - we'll see when the house is actually built.

Our goal is not to use any fossil fuels, so domestic hot water will be electric ... Yellowknife has its' own small hydro system, which I consider to be fossil fuel free, but it costs $0.30/kWh. So if anyone knows how to pre-heat water with a wood stove, without over-cooling the whole system I'm very interested.

Thanks for the detailed instructions on how to run a small fire in these things - very helpful.

 

[weatherguy]

Andrew, do you live in a houseboat on the lake? I found that show interesting, especially the weather through the middle part of winter up there.

 

[Andrew Robinson]

I do actually own a houseboat on the lake, lived out there for 9 years ... then got married and found that 250 sqft was a little small.

As I'm sure you know, "reality" TV shows have very little to do with reality. But it is a great little community.

 

[edyit]

So if anyone knows how to pre-heat water with a wood stove, without over-cooling the whole system I'm very interested.

Maybe not preheating with the wood stove per say but if you have a non-insulated holding tank before the water enters the hot water tank you can get it up to room temp before it is heated this takes some of the load off the electric heater.

 

[Rossco]

I have a little alcove in the living room that has a book cabinet in it, been talking to the wife about putting a little BK 20 in there.

Does anyone have a 20? That could give some real info?

 

[Rickb]

I have 1... What info would you like to know?

 

[Rossco]

I have 1... What info would you like to know?

Heat vs Burn times.

It would cook us out of here I imagine at anything over Thermo 1.

Also what chiminey set up do you have?

Please & thanks.

 

[weatherguy]

I do actually own a houseboat on the lake, lived out there for 9 years ... then got married and found that 250 sqft was a little small.

As I'm sure you know, "reality" TV shows have very little to do with reality. But it is a great little community.

I believe about 5% of what I see on reality tv, do the people on the show actually live there?

 

[Rickb]

Heat vs Burn times.

It would cook us out of here I imagine at anything over Thermo 1.

Also what chiminey set up do you have?

Please & thanks.

I have 20' class A with a 6' telescoping double wall stove pipe and 2 45's.

Mine has, 2-45's to offset coming off the stove, then straight up from there.

I also have a OAK.

I load it up with everything opened up and with a cold stove and if I don't open the sliding door near the stove a crack I get a lot of smoke.

Once I get a bunch of fire I close the sliding door.

on a full load with no fans I get about 8 hours of real heat. With the fan you shorten it down about 3 hours.

I have 750 sqft for the stove room and about the same above it. If I turn the stat down as far as it will go. I will run about 73-75 in the 750sqft stove room, and upstairs is around 68. If I run the fan your looking at 75-78 room temps and 70 upstairs.

Hope this helps. I absolutely love my 20. If my area was bigger I would have gone with the the 30 but I just have a small space.

Just as a example I ran the stove all day today because it was 35F and overcast all day. I only loaded it once. I will load it again for bed time.

 

[Cynnergy]

Solar preheat for the water maybe?

 

[Rossco]

Thanks allot Rick.

I measured the alcove and its 42". Need min 48" GDI!

I would be wanting long warm burns as its only to supliment the BK in the basement.

The Princess can keep the upstairs @ min 20C regardless of ambient, we just want a little bump, heck IDE run it solo during shoulder as the basement don't need heat then.

Thanks again.

 

[syadasti]

Sorry to bump a super old thread, but how did this work out?

This Spring I am breaking ground on a high performance (tight, well insulated) with near passive house levels of performance.

This home is around 2300 sq ft plus it has 1000 sq ft finished basement and will be located in Vermont. It will primarily be heated with a cold climate heat pump system (Mitsubishi or Fujitsu) aided by a larger PV array with a wood stove for supplemental/aesthetic use during the coldest times of the year.

It seems like the BK Sirocco 30.1 or Regency F3500 with a OAK might be good options and I am guessing typically I would run either in the low burn giving my minimal and/or supplemental heating needs. Ideally long burning with minimal input during use would be ideal.

Can anyone give me a good reason to go with one or the other and is there any other model I should consider? It seems like the BK will burn longer on low but requires 18" (16" recommended logs) and costs $500 more. How useful or necessary is the thermostat feature in the BK especially given how easily a tight well insulated home can overheat or my plan of using either on low for supplemental long burn purposes?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

Your concern is valid. I would run heat loss calculations on the space before deciding on a stove. You may be surprised at how little heat is required. With the proposed setup, the heat pump system could easily and economically cover the load. Look at Daikin units too. If draft is sufficient, the 30.1 can run at at a low output. Plan on a dark glass if always running at the lowest setting.

An alternative would be to think creatively. My brother-in-law built his house in upper NY with high insulation and excellent sealing. They heat with solar gain from a greenhouse and supplement with a small, built-in pizza oven. Refrigeration and lighting, even body heat contribute. Average winter wood consumption is less than 2 cords. They have a backup wood/oil boiler, but that rarely is used except in the coldest weather. An oil tankful lasts years and mostly is for hot water. The house was built before modern heat pumps were available. This is a conventional looking ~2100 sq ft house with full basement.

 

[syadasti]

We are doing energy modeling with Sefaira and other solutions but this is for a design approval point.

The stove is mostly aesthetics, I am pretty certain we can do without the stove as the heat pumps still do about 60-65% of their rated capacity at -15F. The area doesn't see too many days that low and given the PV and larger thermal mass in the home we can heat up the concrete polished first floor/basement during the day when the sun is shining to maybe 72-74F and then setback the heatpump to 66-68F as the sun goes down and we no longer have solar to offset the electrical use and the COP of the heatpump system drops with the lower nightly temperatures. The thermal mass takes a long time to cool down so it would take several day in a row below -15F with no sun before we'd really need supplemental heating from the stove or electrical resistance heat.

 

[Andrew Robinson]

UPDATE

We are well into our 3rd winter and I can report that the super-efficient house with Blaze King catalytic wood stove combination works very well.

We have been using around 2-1/2 cords per winter - spruce & pine. The thermostat on the stove, combined with very low heat losses allow us to keep the entire house at an even temperature throughout the winter. No need for any other form of space heating.

As suggested by many folks here, we went with the larger Chinook 30.1. The low end of output on the stove works quite well - even a small fire on one side of the firebox is enough to get the catalytic element up to temperature and then and few sticks of wood can keep it just in the right zone for half a day. And when we get into the minus 40 temperatures, it still only needs loading up 2 or 3 times in 24 hours.

One thing I might do differently is choose a different model from the Chinook - the Chinook has an enormous glass window, which does stay fairly clean if you run the stove on high once in a while, but I think the huge door does not stay as tight as it could. For these stoves to run well on the lowest setting, they need to be absolutely air-tight. I had to change out the "rope" sealant around the door after the first year because I could no longer get the stove to damp down enough on warmer days (or on windy days, when the additional draft would cause the fire to flare up). The "friction" latching mechanism on the Chinook door has to take a lot of force to keep the door closed tightly & is slowly grinding away. A friend of mine has the Ashford & the latch on that door is much beefier. The Princess also has a smaller door & I think that it would seal better.

Over-all, we've been very happy with the Blaze King ... and since we got ours, our friends in the houseboat community on Yellowknife Bay have also adopted the Blaze King as their "Woodstove of choice" ... how's that for an endorsement ?

Thanks for the advice a few years ago

 

[begreen]

We are doing energy modeling with Sefaira and other solutions but this is for a design approval point.

The stove is mostly aesthetics, I am pretty certain we can do without the stove as the heat pumps still do about 60-65% of their rated capacity at -15F. The area doesn't see too many days that low and given the PV and larger thermal mass in the home we can heat up the concrete polished first floor/basement during the day when the sun is shining to maybe 72-74F and then setback the heatpump to 66-68F as the sun goes down and we no longer have solar to offset the electrical use and the COP of the heatpump system drops with the lower nightly temperatures. The thermal mass takes a long time to cool down so it would take several day in a row below -15F with no sun before we'd really need supplemental heating from the stove or electrical resistance heat.

Based on the description, it sounds like a simple small stove would cover this need pretty well. There are several good looking units on the market both classic and contemporary in design.

 

[syadasti]

Based on the description, it sounds like a simple small stove would cover this need pretty well. There are several good looking units on the market both classic and contemporary in design.

But are these more difficult to use due to their small size - have to use smaller logs, loading, etc? I am guessing in a heat pump failure situation the Chinook 30.1 or F3500 could heat the whole home. Neither of these stoves need power to operate as long as you don't have a fan kit so they both could work during a power failure?