Blaze King Princess input blocked ?

[RustyShackleford]

My BK Princess is exhibiting behavior that suggests the input is somehow blocked. I just started a fire the way I normally do, with the door slightly propped open (by not engaging the latch properly) and then waiting till the fire seems to be raging pretty well, and then closing the door - with the input wide open until the cat gets hot enough.

But right now, as soon as I close the door, it's wanting to snuff the fire. Nothing else is different. I've checked the butterfly valve on the thermostat and it looks fine. I've actually never bothered to figure out how the intake air gets from there into the firebox, but it seems like somehow those channel(s) are blocked. This is the stove's 16th winter, so I guess it wouldn't be surprising - although it seemed to come on fairly suddenly.

Could be my imagination, I suppose, just a poorly arranged configuration of logs. But seems like clogged intake could be an issue in a stove this old.

 

[kennyp2339]

Flue cap clogged? Is the T-stat control knob in the correct orientation?

 

[stoveliker]

Indeed, the fact that it works with the door open may not mean the flue is clear - the impedance to air flowing into the stove with the door open is far, far lower than through the air intake. If the cap or flue is partially clogged, draft (suction) on the stove is going to be lower, and as a result it could not be strong enough to overcome the air intake impedance but okay for the door open.

Any more smoke roll out recently?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Nope, nothing is different. I think I just had the logs arranged spastically. But still ... how does the intake air flow between. the butterfly valve and the firebox ? Is cleaning that out something that needs to happen on a 16-year old stove ? Or does the fire burn off any deposits ?

 

[stoveliker]

There should not be any deposits in there, because the air flows the other way.

From the butterfly valve, the air splits to the left and right, goes through the big tubes near the top of your firebox to the front on both sides, where they connect to the air wash that you see through the window.

At least if it's the same as mine and others I have seen.

 

[BKVP]

Very unlikely it's on the intake side. More likely the chimney is not pulling air into the firebox. Is there a F/A intake line or burning room air?

BKVP

 

[RustyShackleford]

Very unlikely it's on the intake side. More likely the chimney is not pulling air into the firebox. Is there a F/A intake line or burning room air?

Room air. But what does F/A mean, forced air ? Anyhow, it was my imagination I think, I just had my logs arranged poorly.

 

[BKVP]

F/A= Fresh Air

 

[Highbeam]

Room air. But what does F/A mean, forced air ? Anyhow, it was my imagination I think, I just had my logs arranged poorly.

My princess is old like yours and I have zero concern about the need to clean the intake manifold. Warmer spring days bring much weaker draft too.

Do you have a bird screen on your cap? That is a very likely cause if this happens again.

 

[stoveliker]

I have never had a "splits arranged poorly" issue. The fire takes off easily regardless of how the splits are situated. Yes their burn rate will be different (e.g. E/W vs N/S), but it won't do what you described above - for wood that is dry enough.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Do you have a bird screen on your cap? That is a very likely cause if this happens again.

Yes, but for awhile now.

I have never had a "splits arranged poorly" issue.

Yeah, I dunno, the fire ended up being just fine.

 

[Tron]

Yes, but for awhile now.

Those tend to get more blockage the longer they are on there. May take months, but eventually they'll restrict flow.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Those tend to get more blockage the longer they are on there. May take months, but eventually they'll restrict flow.

Oh I clean it occasionally when I'm up on roof blowing leaves. Tricky though, it's a 10/12 metal roof. I installed an anchor at the top and use climbing rope-handling skills. Couldn't even ascend that roof without a roof, never mind safety.

 

[cr0]

Bumping this thread as I'm havng a similar problem. I also just inspected my flue from top and bottom (albeit not all the way through). First fire of the season and the fire could barely stay lit when I shut the door, though it was aflame just fine with door cracked. Eventually I nursed it along with the door open enough to get the cat thermometer in the active zone, then I shut the loading door and immediately shut the bypass.

The fire died down a bit but stayed aflame. The bypass was indeed closed (I had tested all the mechanisms before this stove's first fire of its 3rd season), but the fire stayed lit better than when I closed the door and had bypass still open during cat warmed up. A head scratcher but glad the fire is staying lit. Could it be that an issue is causing low oxygen in fire chamber with loading door closed, but with hot cat and bypass closed, low oxygen isn't killing the fire?

Maybe a separate question about cat glowing: With bypass closed, after a couple minutes the cat started glowing red. Great sign. Fire held up okay, 15 minutes later, the cat was not glowing at all anymore. I checked outside and saw and smelled surprisingly little smoke out the chimney. I turned the thermostat down to medium and the cat started glowing dull red, then the fire died down. Turned thermometer up, a minute later flame came back and cat stopped glowing. Now I set thermostat to 3 dots from the top. Fire holding up, cat had dull glow but lost it 30min later. I'll leave it this way overnight and troubleshoot when cooled off tomorrow.

Any ideas what's going on? I think I need to recalibrate my cat thermometer but that seems unrelated, just about more precision on being in the active zone. Reading this thread, sounds like my draft was not strong enough. I had a small-medium fire, plenty of kindling but only 5 medium splits in there (compared to full loads of like 8 big splits). Before fire started, room air was pulled up and out the bypass when the loading door was open, and the kindling had no problem exhausting up out the flue. Weather outside is brisk 35F and dropping, winds high at 15-20mph. Chimney is double lined flue 15ft tall, inspected and pretty clean but it has not been cleaned since before last burning season.

Here's what the flue looked like from the top, the creosote there brushed right off and was less than 1/8in thick.

Third photo shows how easy this stuff brushed off. I brushed the top off but did not do a full clean up and down (based on what I was told for full clean needed when 1/8in buildup - please correct me if that's wrong). Still doesn't seem like it'd explain the fire dying down so much when the loading door shuts.

 

[BKVP]

Did you vacuum behind the cat after sweeping? Is there a pile of debris blocking flow?

BKVP

 

[cr0]

I did not vacuum behind the cat after brushing off the top of the flue. I'll need to look into the manual and explore around with a mirror again to find "behind" the cat. Is that beyond/above the bypass door?

In any case the problem seemed to be independent of the cat, given the fire was getting choked out when loading door shut during warm up with bypass open. Now in active zone with bypass closed, the fire stays lit and the cat seems to be working, albeit still seems to have reduced airflow and inconsistently glowing.

That inconsistent glow has always been the case since my first season with it. Does the glow matter, it seems like the emissions are reduced even when cat is not glowing, if it's in active zone with bypass closed?

 

[xshmoox]

Bumping this thread as I'm havng a similar problem. I also just inspected my flue from top and bottom (albeit not all the way through). First fire of the season and the fire could barely stay lit when I shut the door, though it was aflame just fine with door cracked. Eventually I nursed it along with the door open enough to get the cat thermometer in the active zone, then I shut the loading door and immediately shut the bypass.

The fire died down a bit but stayed aflame. The bypass was indeed closed (I had tested all the mechanisms before this stove's first fire of its 3rd season), but the fire stayed lit better than when I closed the door and had bypass still open during cat warmed up. A head scratcher but glad the fire is staying lit. Could it be that an issue is causing low oxygen in fire chamber with loading door closed, but with hot cat and bypass closed, low oxygen isn't killing the fire?

Maybe a separate question about cat glowing: With bypass closed, after a couple minutes the cat started glowing red. Great sign. Fire held up okay, 15 minutes later, the cat was not glowing at all anymore. I checked outside and saw and smelled surprisingly little smoke out the chimney. I turned the thermostat down to medium and the cat started glowing dull red, then the fire died down. Turned thermometer up, a minute later flame came back and cat stopped glowing. Now I set thermostat to 3 dots from the top. Fire holding up, cat had dull glow but lost it 30min later. I'll leave it this way overnight and troubleshoot when cooled off tomorrow.

Any ideas what's going on? I think I need to recalibrate my cat thermometer but that seems unrelated, just about more precision on being in the active zone. Reading this thread, sounds like my draft was not strong enough. I had a small-medium fire, plenty of kindling but only 5 medium splits in there (compared to full loads of like 8 big splits). Before fire started, room air was pulled up and out the bypass when the loading door was open, and the kindling had no problem exhausting up out the flue. Weather outside is brisk 35F and dropping, winds high at 15-20mph. Chimney is double lined flue 15ft tall, inspected and pretty clean but it has not been cleaned since before last burning season.

Here's what the flue looked like from the top, the creosote there brushed right off and was less than 1/8in thick.

View attachment 341999

View attachment 342000


View attachment 342001
Third photo shows how easy this stuff brushed off. I brushed the top off but did not do a full clean up and down (based on what I was told for full clean needed when 1/8in buildup - please correct me if that's wrong). Still doesn't seem like it'd explain the fire dying down so much when the loading door shuts.

I’m in SE Pa as well and with the warm damp weather we had this weekend I was actually getting significant reverse draft as I could smell it coming back through the stove. I lit my fire around 330 today took a bit to get mine going as well. I’d probably say it was a draft issue due to the change in air pressures. Probably will be easier from here on out now that it looks like it’ll be cold finally

 

[BKVP]

Was bypass open when you swept?

BKVP

 

[moresnow]

Third photo shows how easy this stuff brushed off. I brushed the top off but did not do a full clean up and down (based on what I was told for full clean needed when 1/8in buildup - please correct me if that's wrong). Still doesn't seem like it'd explain the fire dying down so much when the loading door shuts.

Curious? Why not run the brush down the liner while you were up top inspecting?

Recommend cleaning the liner and vacuuming all the debris out from behind the Cat (as mentioned).
Normal routine prior to firing up each year. Peace of mind if nothing else!

I've had birds load a pipe with nesting debris that causes a slow starting/frustrating fire. Almost regularly.
Atmospheric conditions can cause the same. Heavy high moisture air with wind normally.
An armload of splits that isn't as seasoned will do the same.

A non-glowing, fully active Cat is fine.

 

[cr0]

Thank you for all the input. @BKVP I didn't do a full sweep, just brushed the top of the flue off. I think I had the bypass door closed for that.

No good reason I didn't run the drill powered sweep down the floor flue. Based on what my previous pro sweeper told me, it seemed like this wasn't enough build up to call for that. Our chimney cap also has a cage around it, so bird nests wouldn't be an issue, plus I saw no obstruction when looking from bottom up or top down.

But true better safe than sorry. I could run the sweeper top down today (trying to minimize dust disturbance when loading door open). I'll check the manual but also ask here, should I have the bypass open do debris can fall into the firebox? Then when I clean out the firebox, how do I vacuum the cat exhaust and firebox air intake, where are those nooks?