Blazeking Ashford 30 install questions

[kevk]

Got a quote from a fireplace installer, this is for a new-construction installation; 18' tall ceiling.

1. He quoted me for single wall chimney pipe. Installer said single wall will provide more heat and is much cheaper, won't make any difference in performance. I've read conflicting info online, some say single is fine other's say go with double. Side note, I'm not buying my BK from him. I'm hiring him to do the chimney and connect it once it gets delivered.

2. Should I install a fresh-air intake kit? Installer said he's only seen them used in trailers.

Feedback appreciated. Thank you!

 

[stoveliker]

Get the double wall. You dont want to extract heat from the pipe (when burning low); the steps there already skirt the "too low" border.

The stove should give the heat and if it's efficient it won't put heat up the flue more than is needed to keep the draft going.

Outside air; if your home is tight, then yes, get it. If not tight, it's still more efficient to have it (not sucking out warm air that is being replaced with cold air leaking in and that you need to heat away).

 

[kevk]

Thank you, will go w/ double-wall & the air kit.

 

[brenndatomu]

Get the double wall. You dont want to extract heat from the pipe (when burning low); the steps there already skirt the "too low" border.

The stove should give the heat and if it's efficient it won't put heat up the flue more than is needed to keep the draft going.

Outside air; if your home is tight, then yes, get it. If not tight, it's still more efficient to have it (not sucking out warm air that is being replaced with cold air leaking in and that you need to heat away).

This ^ ^ ^!

 

[kborndale]

Get a quote from another installer, this one is quite uninformed.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Get a quote from another installer, this one is quite uninformed.

Yeah who knows what other short cuts/ uninformed decisions they may make. BK needs a proper chimney or you won't like it.

 

[Ashful]

Get a quote from another installer, this one is quite uninformed.

I’d use it as a chance to let the installer know that very efficient stoves cannot achieve as low a burn rate without stalling, when much heat is lost into the room through single wall pipe. If they’re belligerent or argue the point, then maybe it’s time to find another installer.

 

[Tron]

the air kit.

I think that's only an option if your stove sits on an outside wall. The air kit hoses are not permitted to run higher than the air intake of the stove. I was thinking about getting outside air from our attic, and was told that wasn't permissible.

 

[stoveliker]

I think that's only an option if your stove sits on an outside wall. The air kit hoses are not permitted to run higher than the air intake of the stove. I was thinking about getting outside air from our attic, and was told that wasn't permissible.

Or above a ventilated crawl space, i.e. straight down.

 

[John Galt]

Get a quote from another installer, this one is quite uninformed.

Just because you can install a chimney doesn't make you an expert on stoves or chimneys. Our neighbor has been complaining about his BK since he bought it. Turns out the installer didn't add enough height on the roof and then said to add creosote remover every week. Killed his cat. Trust the people here.

 

[Tron]

Or above a ventilated crawl space, i.e. straight down.

Right, or that. Just not up.

 

[kevk]

I’d use it as a chance to let the installer know that very efficient stoves cannot achieve as low a burn rate without stalling, when much heat is lost into the room through single wall pipe. If they’re belligerent or argue the point, then maybe it’s time to find another installer.

He was just trying to save me money. I told him I wanted double wall per the manufacturers recommendations, he didn't challenge me on it. He's been doing stove & fireplace installs for 30 years and comes highly recommended - great reviews. He doesn't sell BlazeKing, I had to order it online to get what I wanted.

 

[kevk]

I think that's only an option if your stove sits on an outside wall. The air kit hoses are not permitted to run higher than the air intake of the stove. I was thinking about getting outside air from our attic, and was told that wasn't permissible.

The stove will be installed on the main floor over a daylight basement. The pipe will run down through the floor then between the floor trusses to the outside.

 

[kborndale]

He was just trying to save me money. I told him I wanted double wall per the manufacturers recommendations, he didn't challenge me on it. He's been doing stove & fireplace installs for 30 years and comes highly recommended - great reviews. He doesn't sell BlazeKing, I had to order it online to get what I wanted.

No modern stove should have a longer than 3 foot run of single wall pipe, not just blazeking.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Are you talking about a horizontal run or any run longer than 3 feet?

<3 feet of vertical either means a low ceiling or a very tall stove.

 

[kborndale]

Are you talking about a horizontal run or any run longer than 3 feet?

<3 feet of vertical either means a low ceiling or a very tall stove.

Any modern stove with more than 3 feet of stove pipe should be double wall. Horizontal vs vertical doesn't matter.

 

[Drew777]

He was just trying to save me money. I told him I wanted double wall per the manufacturers recommendations, he didn't challenge me on it. He's been doing stove & fireplace installs for 30 years and comes highly recommended - great reviews. He doesn't sell BlazeKing, I had to order it online to get what I wanted.

I take advantage of installing single wall stove pipe anytime I can - puts out way more heat. That being said, Blaze King does recommend double wall (see attached from the Ashford manual).

I disagree with their reasoning. Imo, as an installer, an unexposed (inside of house) pipe should never pose an issue with keeping your chimney warm enough. You're also going straight up with more than sufficient height to get some great draft. If I were the installer I'd call Blaze King and challenge them on it to see what their most knowledgeable tech has to say about stove pipe testing that's been done on that unit, as well as their opinion on your specific pipe run. If they stand by their double wall recommendation, I always do what the manufacturer says is best.
As far as fresh air, is it difficult to drop down and out? Fresh air is awesome but if it's not feasible I'm sure you have a window close by that you can just keep cracked open when the stove is running. Or maybe you also have a fresh air makeup somewhere not too far if your house is newer.

 

[Drew777]

Also just to add, double wall stove pipe isn't some crazy expensive stuff lol. You're going straight up it shouldn't be more than a few hundred bucks.

 

[stoveliker]

I take advantage of installing single wall stove pipe anytime I can - puts out way more heat. That being said, Blaze King does recommend double wall (see attached from the Ashford manual).
View attachment 328046
I disagree with their reasoning. Imo, as an installer, an unexposed (inside of house) pipe should never pose an issue with keeping your chimney warm enough. You're also going straight up with more than sufficient height to get some great draft. If I were the installer I'd call Blaze King and challenge them on it to see what their most knowledgeable tech has to say about stove pipe testing that's been done on that unit, as well as their opinion on your specific pipe run. If they stand by their double wall recommendation, I always do what the manufacturer says is best.
As far as fresh air, is it difficult to drop down and out? Fresh air is awesome but if it's not feasible I'm sure you have a window close by that you can just keep cracked open when the stove is running. Or maybe you also have a fresh air makeup somewhere not too far if your house is newer.

The most knowledgeable BK employee on here is BKVP.
As you don't take it from us, I'll let @BKVP going to do the talking - if that is even necessary beyond what they said in the manual...

 

[brenndatomu]

If I were the installer I'd call Blaze King and challenge them on it to see what their most knowledgeable tech has to say about stove pipe testing that's been done on that unit, as well as their opinion on your specific pipe run. If they stand by their double wall recommendation, I always do what the manufacturer says is best.

Their VP has already stated on this forum, probably hundreds of times, that they highly recommend DW, why beat a dead horse?

 

[BKVP]

The most knowledgeable BK employee on here is BKVP.
As you don't take it from us, I'll let @BKVP going to do the talking - if that is even necessary beyond what they said in the manual...

Thank you. When efficiencies began to rise and emissions began to drop, so did stack temperatures.

Stack temperatures play a role in how stoves perform. We do not suggest 100% of installs won't work on single wall pipe, but for every 10 calls we receive about poor draft performance, we know factually that stack length and single wall pipe are two likely culprits.

We now require photographs before we attempt any tech support. Just 2 weeks ago family were complaining the fuel load would not burn to completion. We emailed them a Tech Support Request form. With it were the pictures we require. 12' single wall.

We asked who installed the stove, "self". We were informed their prior stove never had any issues. They replaced the single wall with double wall, but kept it at 12'. "Runs great, whole new stove" was response....We said, wait until it gets cold and if you add 3' of class A, you'll be really happy.

Have you all noticed the most efficient stoves from various manufacturers are now recommending a specific vertical rise before transitions? The same manufacturers are recommending double wall stove pipe.

Respectfully, it's the combined knowledge and experience of an entire industry that prevail on this topic, not just me and my company.

BKVP

 

[begreen]

Double-wall for any stovepipe run over 8' has been recommended for quite a while. I got this advice back in 2005 when I first joined the BBS hearth.com.

 

[Todd]

Best thing to do if you want to reclaim heat from the pipe is to install a Magic Heat creosote maker. I hear it can increase the efficiency of a Blaze King by 15%! 😂😂 just kidding

 

[kevk]

Also just to add, double wall stove pipe isn't some crazy expensive stuff lol. You're going straight up it shouldn't be more than a few hundred bucks.

Actually double wall pipe added a significant amount to the quote. Initially I was quoted $2872 for the install, pipe included. I thought that was very cheap so I asked about the pipe and found out he quoted me for single-wall. He warned me that I'd be shocked by the quote for double wall. It added $1400 more to the price. I have 18ft ceilings / steep roof.

 

[kevk]

Double-wall for any stovepipe run over 8' has been recommended for quite a while. I got this advice back in 2005 when I first joined the BBS hearth.com.

I haven't heard the term BBS is years. Reminds me of the pre-internet/dial-up modem days back in the 80s when individuals would host their own BBSs. I'm showing my age...