Blower Speed issue - Quadrafire AE Mt. Vernon insert

[ljkelly]

Hi -

I can't get my insert (which is about 10 years old) to go on high speed anymore. It will start on low, then move to SS-Med and stay there. Even when the thermostat says it's on medium, it feels like low. My current room temp is 68 degrees and I have the comfort level set to 89. I've cleaned out the blower, the exhaust blower and flue. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks, Lee

 

[kappel15]

What revision control board do you have? Do you have the quiet and normal fan speed setting? Is it on quiet? And does it stay on ssmed,. or does it go past that? kap

 

[ljkelly]

What revision control board do you have? Do you have the quiet and normal fan speed setting? Is it on quiet? And does it stay on ssmed,. or does it go past that? kap

Kap - Thanks for replying. I have software version 6.01 Build 3. I do have the quiet and normal fan speed settings and I have the same issue on both. Since I posted last, I saw somewhere online that I may have a bad drop-tube thermocouple. While the unit was running, I unplugged the drop tube thermocouple from the circuit board, and low and behold the blower fan came on - quite frankly I think the fan has actually been off for a while (like weeks) and I only noticed it once I heard it come on again. Long story shorter, I went and picked up an new drop-tube thermocouple. Unfortunately, when I went to plug it in it appeared to have a slightly different connector on the circuit board side - the female pins are closer together. In trying to get it to work I bent the pins slightly. Terrified of breaking them, I gently bent the pins back. Then I cut the connector off my original thermocouple cable, stripped the wires and plugged them into the new thermocouple connector and plugged it in to the circuit board. I then plugged the stove back in.

Now my stove comes on and FINALLY goes past SS-Medium - it hasn't done that in a while. As the unit warmed up, I then received a vacuum error. I jumped the vacuum wires and restarted. Now the unit heats up and while the thermostat says I'm in Auto "HIGH", the blower still won't come on (I have the sides off the unit and can see the blower fan isn't spinning). I then disconnected the new drop-tube thermocouple (with my old connector ends) and the blower fan comes on. Of course, this causes a max-fan or max-heat error (I forget which) and a drop tube thermocouple error and the unit shuts down. What should I try next?

Thanks, Lee

 

[kappel15]

When you swapped ends, I hope you didn't reverse the wires. And there is only one way for connection to go on Control board. And there are two sets of wires coming from the conv. fan. Check connections. And if the drop tube thermocouple doesn't produce millivolts, it isn't good. kap

 

[ljkelly]

When you swapped ends, I hope you didn't reverse the wires. And there is only one way for connection to go on Control board. And there are two sets of wires coming from the conv. fan. Check connections. And if the drop tube thermocouple doesn't produce millivolts, it isn't good. kap

I don't think that's the case. When I try reversing the ends the fan comes on HIGH, just as it does when the cable is disconnected.

 

[ljkelly]

I don't think that's the case. When I try reversing the ends the fan comes on HIGH, just as it does when the cable is disconnected.

Sorry kap - for some reason I initially only saw the first sentence of your reply. As mentioned, when I reverse the wires to ensure I don't have them backwards then the fan comes on full - just like it does when the connector is disconnected. I only see one set of wires coming from the blower fan (the fan that blows air into the room). There are (2) sets of wires on the exhaust fan. Can you tell me how to check the thermocouple for voltage (I assume DC volts)? Thanks, Lee

 

[Ssyko]

Set your meter to DC milivolts and one probe on each wire of the thermocouple apply heat to the end of the thermocouple. If you dont get a reading TC is bad. If you get a reading and it rises its functioning

 

[kappel15]

You can heat the end and see if it produces millivolts. If it does, then I would suspect a bad conv. fan. And the black end will only work on board one way. When you cleaned the conv. fan, did it spin freely? And when checking conections, check for broken wires. Years back they were so tight, that the little vibration from fan would break them.Check high limit snap disc on drop tube to see if it has been tripped. If everything checks out, I would say bad conv. fan. kap

 

[ljkelly]

Thanks again, Kap. Before I started testing today, I jumped the drop-tube snap disk to bypass it as a possible issue. I couldn't tell if it was tripped or not, the red button was fully out and I couldn't press it in.

I measured the voltage on the drop tube thermocouple, here are my results:

SS-LOW I was getting 1.1mv
SS-MED- 1.2mv
AUTO-HIGH - 1.5mv

When I cleaned the conv. fan, it did spin freely and when I disconnect the drop-tube thermocouple from the circuit board, the conv. fan spins really, really fast. I checked the wires as best I could, but as you mentioned on these units the connections are VERY temperamental. If a mouse farted anywhere in the vicinity of the circuit board it could cause a change in connection. Conv. fan next?

Thanks, Lee

 

[kappel15]

It is hard to try and diagnose a stove over the internet.Something that you might try first is the wire harness's for the fan. Less of a hit in the pocket book as those fans are not cheap. And you are right about that fart! Something I want to check is you do know there are black connectors that stay on the board. This is the part that the end of the drop tube tcouple clicks into correct? kap

 

[ljkelly]

Kap - Thanks again for your continued patience on this. I'm not familiar with the black connectors you are referring to. I'm attaching a jpg and apologize in advance for the crude graphics. At "2 o'clock" in this picture you'll see a crude "A" with a circle. This is where the new thermocouple is connected (temporarily) into the end of the old thermocouple because the new connector end is slightly different from the old. You'll notice the ends are un-insulated (for now) as I needed exposed wire to measure the voltage. The "old" end is connected to the circuit board seen here encircled next to the letter "B" (at 7 o'clock). The end of the old thermocouple is female and is plugged into two silver males ends protruding from the circuit board. Just above this connection in this picture is the connection where the "fire-pot" thermocouple plugs in. I'm not familiar with any other connectors, although the connector to the end of the drop-tube thermocouple is black, if that helps. And thanks for the advice on the wire harness. It is significantly less expensive than a new blower.

Also, (2) more questions if you don't mind:

a. If I jumper the thermocouple connector on the logic board (not sure what it will tell me) will that damage the logic board?

b. Did jumping the snap-disk tell me anything? I'm not sure if this disk is Normally Open (NO) or Normally Closed (NC). If I jumped it and it's (NO) I think I'd be causing the fan to stay off.

I'm starting to grasp at straws here .

Thanks, Lee

 

[kappel15]

In your pic, you see where you put the wires from old tcouple. That is a black end. There should also be one on the control board that it clicks into. Should not be just two male prongs sticking out of control board. Jumping board will not do anything. The drop tube thermocouple produces millivolts to turn conv. fan on. Snap disc should be closed, to allow current thru it, unless it tripped. Jumping it would make it act like it was closed, allowing current thru it.kap

 

[ljkelly]

In your pic, you see where you put the wires from old tcouple. That is a black end. There should also be one on the control board that it clicks into. Should not be just two male prongs sticking out of control board. Jumping board will not do anything. The drop tube thermocouple produces millivolts to turn conv. fan on. Snap disc should be closed, to allow current thru it, unless it tripped. Jumping it would make it act like it was closed, allowing current thru it.kap

Kap - thanks. I now see what you mean. Some of the other connectors on the logic board do have plastic connectors to let connectors plug into, but this one and the burn pot thermocouple do not - there are only those male prongs sticking out. I guess the next step is to order the wiring harness?

Thanks, Lee

 

[kappel15]

Did you buy this unit new or used? And has any one ever worked on it? kap

 

[ljkelly]

Did you buy this unit new or used? And has any one ever worked on it? kap

I purchased my first AE the week after they first introduced it and I had so many problems with it I traded it in 2 years later for another new one. I did have the dealer come out a few times and I swore they replaced the logic board in this new once once, but it was so many years ago I've long since forgotten. With all this troubleshooting, I've finally managed to break one of the male pins off the logic board. I did see a place that repairs the board for a flat rate and offers a one year warranty. I may try to solder a new connector unto this one before I go that route.

On a completely different note - I think you and I signed up on the iburncorn.com forum on the same day (years and years and years ago)

Lee

 

[kappel15]

I wish that forum was still going. Lost lots of customers when it shut down. If you get your board fixed, I would get new black molex connectors to put on the male prongs.Someone must have lost them at one time or another. I do know on the firepot tcouple if you reverse the wires it will reverse polarity.I would say the same for the drop tube tcouple. I have one of the original 06 model AE's. I made sure me and my friends got every upgrade they came out with. They are all still running today.That was the problem back then, dealers didn't know how to deal with these new stoves, and didn't care to try and keep up with the upgrades. Makes me wonder how many AE's are out there that dont' work. Look on the control board. There should be a white sticker on it with a Rev. number like SRV7000 - 456. kap

 

[ljkelly]

I wish that forum was still going. Lost lots of customers when it shut down. If you get your board fixed, I would get new black molex connectors to put on the male prongs.Someone must have lost them at one time or another. I do know on the firepot tcouple if you reverse the wires it will reverse polarity.I would say the same for the drop tube tcouple. I have one of the original 06 model AE's. I made sure me and my friends got every upgrade they came out with. They are all still running today.That was the problem back then, dealers didn't know how to deal with these new stoves, and didn't care to try and keep up with the upgrades. Makes me wonder how many AE's are out there that dont' work. Look on the control board. There should be a white sticker on it with a Rev. number like SRV7000 - 456. kap

I agree - it's sort of weird his site shut down the way it did - it sounded for a while like he was going to bring it back up - then nothing. In any case, I think my next step is to pull the insert from the house and put it into the garage so I'll have room to work on it. I'll have to be sure everything is labeled before I pull the cables off, then if I can't fix the connector myself, I'll arrange to ship the board out. I'll also see if they can update the software and add the connectors you mentioned while they have it. If that doesn't work out, I'll probably touch base with you to see what the cost of a new circuit board would be. I'll probably replace any / all charred wires, connectors, snap disk, vacuum switch, thermocouples, etc. and fully test the unit before I bring it back in the house. I'm thinking it'll probably be a few days before I can get started as I usually work long hours during the week.

It's too bad this couldn't have crapped out on me at the end of the season, but I am fortunate that I have oil heat backup while I go through this. Thanks again for all your help and I'll keep you up to date on my progress.

Lee

 

[kappel15]

He was milking everybody too. Every year he would ask for donations from members. You have charred wires too? Would still be nice to know what Rev. board you have. Good luck on your endeavor. kap

 

[ljkelly]

He was milking everybody too. Every year he would ask for donations from members. You have charred wires too? Would still be nice to know what Rev. board you have. Good luck on your endeavor. kap

Kap - the only charred wire I can see is on one end of the drop tube snap disk - it still works but I want to replace it. I'm probably going to try to extend the tabs on the snap disk so the connector wires can be a little bit farther away from the drop tube to keep it from charring again.

I don't know if there are any other charred wires (I don't see any), but I'm going to relocate the unit into my garage so I can get a really good look at things. I'm not as young and flexible as I used to be, and it's a royal pain to work on this thing in a tight, cramped space. I'll let you know the board rev number once I pull the board. (It'd be nice if someone sold refurbished boards with a one year warranty).

 

[kappel15]

IF there was a charred wire there, I would have to say there was an overfire at one time or another. The tabs are at a correct height for what they do. Only other opton is wire got hot do to current. kap

 

[ljkelly]

IF there was a charred wire there, I would have to say there was an overfire at one time or another. The tabs are at a correct height for what they do. Only other opton is wire got hot do to current. kap

Okay - well hopefully with the replacement snap-disk that will resolve whatever the root cause was for the crispy terminal. As it turns out, the guy who repairs Quad motherboards doesn't do the AE version. I've ordered some Molex connectors and will be brushing up on my soldering skills before I try to tackle the logic board repair. Crossing fingers.

 

[kappel15]

Continuity test on snap disc would tell if it is good or not

 

[ljkelly]

Thanks kap. I'll be testing it once I pull the unit out.

 

[ljkelly]

Thanks kap. I'll be testing it once I pull the unit out.

Hi kap - I have the board out. There's a barcode sticker on top # 17000019852083717

Then there's another little white sticker that says Rev 2.3 Rev 7.6n

Printed on the circuit board its says "The Bergquist Company - Torrington Division 468-01-0017-rB

On the plastic casing that goes over the board, there's a sticker that says:
Torrington Hearth Stove Control Board
P/N 170-00-0198-J S/N 170000198520837173
Mfr date 52/08

Hearth P/N 7000-456 REV. C ROHS Compliant

Is that what we needed?

Thanks, Lee

 

[kappel15]

Yep. That is the latest and greatest. Well, except lately I think they had a newer one. That is the same one I have. kap