I remember a thread that had a website which listed million btu's a cord per type of wood. What was that site?
btus per type of wood
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And right in our own neighborhood we have:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/heating_value_wood
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm)
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/heating_value_wood
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm)
From a reference I have, all in million BTU per cord
Real hardwood (Apple, locus, hickory...) 26.8
Hardwood (White ash, beech, birch sugar maple, red oak) 23.4
Softer (Black ash, white birch, norway pine, pitch pine, black cherry, soft maple...) 20
Softwood (Aspen,, Hemlock, White pine, whitecedar, spruce,...) 14.5
So you see the real hardwoods can give more than twice the heat per volume, not per pound. A cord of hardwood weighs a lot more than a cord of softwood.
Hope this helps calibrate. All burn and give heat.
Real hardwood (Apple, locus, hickory...) 26.8
Hardwood (White ash, beech, birch sugar maple, red oak) 23.4
Softer (Black ash, white birch, norway pine, pitch pine, black cherry, soft maple...) 20
Softwood (Aspen,, Hemlock, White pine, whitecedar, spruce,...) 14.5
So you see the real hardwoods can give more than twice the heat per volume, not per pound. A cord of hardwood weighs a lot more than a cord of softwood.
Hope this helps calibrate. All burn and give heat.
oilstinks said:
Well, thank you very much, Mr. Oilstinks. BTW, I got my nickname not because of my preferred source of heat, but because some years ago (1992-1995), I was Chief Engineer on an oil-fired US Navy aircraft carrier...as distinct from the nuclear powered ships. This was rather late in my 30-year Navy career, most all of it having to do with ship propulsion. We Carrier engineers all used steam for virtually everything, we just had two different fuel sources to generate it. Mine was oil, thus the nickname. You have absolutely no idea how much oil I burned...nor do I...maybe a billion gallons, I dunno. Now I burn wood. Rick
There are many out there and they all seem to vary in BTU's. Maybe it's moisture content or certain woods vary some by location?
Jerry_NJ said:
Your point that volume (cord) varies considerably is often confused with the point that by weight all woods are quite close in btu/lb. A person can easily convert the table to heat value equivalent $/cord by: (wood 1 ) / (wood 2) x ($/cord wood 2).
Example: if wood 1 is white pine and wood 2 is red oak, and if the local price of red oak is $200/cord, what is the maximum price one should pay for some white pine that is available?
14.3 (white pine) / 24 (red oak) x $200 = $119. Anything less than $119 is a btu bargain compared to red oak.
Another point to keep in mind is that buying a truckload of green logs delivered (you cut, split, season and stack) often is quite unrelated to heat value of the wood. In our area, a truckload of green logs (good logs but not high quality saw logs) delivered runs right around $75/cord regardless of whether it is red oak, pine or aspen. Most of the cost of green logs is the harvesting and transportation, not the wood heat value.
Jim,
Understood, I can do the math.
I have been thinking about buying a truckload of wood, also called a by trade-names (of which I forget at the moment). I think around here in NJ we can get a load of hardwood logs, no softwoods, but that isn't something I know first-hand, having never purchased a load, and I don't even know yet were to go to make contact to purchase such a load. A neighbor purchased a load about 10 years ago, and not since, partly becaue he converted from primarily wood to propane heat. Last winter he went back to wood for reasons all to well understood on this forum.
I think there are other factors in determining the best value investment in wood than the simple BTU/$. HW burns cleaner, less creosote, and longer. So, I'd be willing to pay at least 20% more per BTU for HW over SW.
As I heat with an electric driven geothermal heat pump I have not yet been hit by the astronomical increase in energy cost. Then too, I was heating some with wood back when electricity, even a highly efficient heat pump, was more expensive than oil heat (that was oil at $1 per gallon and electricity at 10 cents per KWH average).
Understood, I can do the math.
I have been thinking about buying a truckload of wood, also called a by trade-names (of which I forget at the moment). I think around here in NJ we can get a load of hardwood logs, no softwoods, but that isn't something I know first-hand, having never purchased a load, and I don't even know yet were to go to make contact to purchase such a load. A neighbor purchased a load about 10 years ago, and not since, partly becaue he converted from primarily wood to propane heat. Last winter he went back to wood for reasons all to well understood on this forum.
I think there are other factors in determining the best value investment in wood than the simple BTU/$. HW burns cleaner, less creosote, and longer. So, I'd be willing to pay at least 20% more per BTU for HW over SW.
As I heat with an electric driven geothermal heat pump I have not yet been hit by the astronomical increase in energy cost. Then too, I was heating some with wood back when electricity, even a highly efficient heat pump, was more expensive than oil heat (that was oil at $1 per gallon and electricity at 10 cents per KWH average).
fossil said:
That must have been the Kitty, cuz the Ranger (my boat) was decom. at that time, I think. The last 2 oil burning flat tops of the USN. Sorry, a bit OT.
Jags said:
Yeah, Jags, it was Kitty Hawk (CV 63). She'll be decommissioned this year, and the "Don't Tread on Me" flag will pass to another ship. I served aboard Ranger, too, for a few months on deployment in '89, as a temp fill for the Main Propulsion Assistant slot. She was a great ship. Rick
Jerry_NJ said:
Call your DNR forestry and ask for names of area loggers. Contact the logger directly and negotiate your deal.
I burn only pine in my Tarm. While it does not hold a fire as long as oak, there is no creosote, and it burns no less clean than hardwood oak, etc. Softwoods get a bad rap IMO because they are not well-seasoned or are burned in a slow, cool fire, which I don't think ever is efficient. Plus, there is no buildup of coals with softwoods. I also burn aspen in my wood stove, which I have done for 18 winters. Another excellent stove wood that gets little respect. Given my choice, I would buy strictly on btu/$, so long as the logs are of reasonable quality.
CV63, why do I remember (my memory isn't so good these days) CVA63, maybe the Navy has changed designations. I think "A" stands for Attack. I took a "Kiddy Cruise" on the nearly new Kitty Hawk while in boot camp in 1957. She was the pride of the Navy in those days...best I can recall, what a ship!! We did experience flight operations (observers) with A3s being the biggest aircraft operating off of aircraft carriers ( I could also have the aircraft designation wrong). Anyway, it is good to see some Navy "buddies" on this down-to-earth forum, hearth.com. I was in for only one enlisted tour, and retired form the Navy in 1961 as an AE2P1 (P1 was a proficiency pay grade allocated under competitive examinations for needed enlisted rating, such as electronic and electrical; AE Aviation Electrician)... oh, oh, this thread had been hijacked .. sorry.
Back to the subject of the hearth, Jim, thanks for the inputs on use of softwood, I have a lot of it on my property, the most available because of just too much of it, is Eastern Red Cedar. I understand Cedar seasons well in under a year, whereas White Pine (also have a lot of that, none that I'm cutting down, but some blows down) takes a couple of years to season, right? Yes, I now there are moisture meters to determine the state of seasoning, but for planning purposes I'd use the afore mentioned. I consider Ash, Oak, Maple, Black Walnut can season fine in 6 months.
Back to the subject of the hearth, Jim, thanks for the inputs on use of softwood, I have a lot of it on my property, the most available because of just too much of it, is Eastern Red Cedar. I understand Cedar seasons well in under a year, whereas White Pine (also have a lot of that, none that I'm cutting down, but some blows down) takes a couple of years to season, right? Yes, I now there are moisture meters to determine the state of seasoning, but for planning purposes I'd use the afore mentioned. I consider Ash, Oak, Maple, Black Walnut can season fine in 6 months.
agreed. Just saw a Craigslist ad today for a guy who had all this pine to give away for anyone who had a use for it. Said he had a woodstove so he had no use for it. ??? Thought I might respond and explain to him but I didn't.fossil said:
Jerry_NJ said:
Your memory's still working OK, Jerry. She was commissioned CVA63 in April of 1961. In 1976, she was redesignated CV...the Navy did away with the "A" for attack.
Are the foxes on or near your property? Cute little buggers. We used to see foxes in Virginia. Now out here in Oregon, we have mule deer laying in the snow in our back yard in winter, and can listen to the coyotes singing. Rick
fossil said:
I agree with you fossil--most wood burns. most wood heats. and here in the west we can`t be as fussy as those easterners.
And hey, welcome to the west coast of N>A>
sonnyinbc said:
Yes, I can attest to the fact that burning pine produces a good deal of heat. And thanks for the welcoming thought...I was actually born & raised in California, as was my father, so I'm a second generation "native son of the golden west". My Navy career took me on a long journey to distant places, but now I'm back where I belong to stay. Rick
fossil,
Thanks for reminding me of the dates, I must have been on the Kitty Hawk when I was on temporary active as an AE1 and a class room instructor (and DI) in a 90 day Navy reserve boot camp program....we took an invitation to take a ride on the Kitty Hawk, from Alameda to the Bremerton Ship Yard and some dry-dock time. I remaind in the active/ready reserve time after my Navy service. I went to the University of Washington and got an EE degree in 1966. The Kitty Hawk tour must have been sometime in the mid 60s. The 1957 run was on the Ticonderoga CVA14, a WWII boat which was modified with a canted deck sometime after WWII. I don't have any idea when she was decommissioned.
Sorry about my ongoing questions about burning Pine, I have avoided it during my 30+ years living in NJ, were hardwood is the mainstay of firewood. As said, I have a lot of "free" (lot is relative, maybe 1/2 cord a year) softwood on my property. Yes, there are large properties in NJ too, I have a bit over 5 acres...about half is lawn and other mowed green stuff, about half is woods. We are off the road with two other houses, each on over 5 acres, and the fox den is on one of the other properties, about 500 feet or so from my house.
Thanks for reminding me of the dates, I must have been on the Kitty Hawk when I was on temporary active as an AE1 and a class room instructor (and DI) in a 90 day Navy reserve boot camp program....we took an invitation to take a ride on the Kitty Hawk, from Alameda to the Bremerton Ship Yard and some dry-dock time. I remaind in the active/ready reserve time after my Navy service. I went to the University of Washington and got an EE degree in 1966. The Kitty Hawk tour must have been sometime in the mid 60s. The 1957 run was on the Ticonderoga CVA14, a WWII boat which was modified with a canted deck sometime after WWII. I don't have any idea when she was decommissioned.
Sorry about my ongoing questions about burning Pine, I have avoided it during my 30+ years living in NJ, were hardwood is the mainstay of firewood. As said, I have a lot of "free" (lot is relative, maybe 1/2 cord a year) softwood on my property. Yes, there are large properties in NJ too, I have a bit over 5 acres...about half is lawn and other mowed green stuff, about half is woods. We are off the road with two other houses, each on over 5 acres, and the fox den is on one of the other properties, about 500 feet or so from my house.
Jerry, you graduated from UW the year I graduated from high school...so it's no wonder our Navy experiences didn't overlap. But we're shipmates just the same. The foxes are very cool. In Virginia, we had a mating pair of Barred Owls that used a nest in a hollow of a tree just across the street from our driveway. In early 2006 I followed their every move and documented the saga of their two owlets in a picture story. Animals are fun...well, some animals are. Burn pine, Jerry, don't spurn pine. Rick
Jerry_NJ said:
The variety of experiences is interesting. I have no cedar around where I live, but lots of white pine. While almost always my wood is seasoned (cut, split, stacked, and covered or in a woodshed) 2-3 summers, I have burned pines (white, red and jack) after one full summer of drying with no issue. All other woods I season a minimum of two summers, preferably three. My experience (or bias) is that oak and hard maple take at least two summers. We don't have much ash and we have no black walnut.
I just find dry wood burns so much better and I have the space to store firewood. Right now all my cutting, splitting and stacking is done for next winter (just finished yesterday). For the wood stove and gasifier combined I have about 35 cords on hand -- at least 10 cords will finish their 3rd summer of seasoning by winter.
I have a moisture meter which I use for lumber drying and testing MC especially for lumber to be used for furniture, flooring, paneling, etc. I don't bother to use it for firewood. Let a summer or 2 or 3 handle the moisture without measuring.
BTW, today or tomorrow 20 nice saw logs will find their new future as they pass through the Woodmizer. 5 of those logs are aspen which look really solid and should produce some fine lumber. The last aspen I used was for a baby cradle for our first grandchild (now six years old). I inlaid butternut in the aspen, which produced a very nice effect.
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