Building home, love open fireplace, may use insert, need advice
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You need one of these. They have one at THE WOODWAY in Fairbanks and it is amazing. It has a pizza oven above the regular stove. I asked if it was Doctors and lawyers buying these (they are not cheap) and he said mainly hippies. They can go off the grid with these bad boys...
(broken link removed to http://www.tulikivi.com/www/tltuoteU.nsf/ENG2/TTU2700_51?OpenDocument&id=kaikki__kaikki&id2;=)
(broken link removed to http://www.tulikivi.com/www/tltuoteU.nsf/ENG2/TTU2700_51?OpenDocument&id=kaikki__kaikki&id2;=)
It is very difficult to figure out what someone else, and their family and their home, would be best served by. Stoves and inserts are definitely more efficient than fireplaces. I doubt anyone would argue otherwise. But I built our Rumford fireplace a long time ago, and we've never regretted it. It took me an entire summer, but it was worth it. Cranked up, it will heat you out of the room it's in, for sure, on even the coldest day. So, we don't build huge fires in it, just small to medium ones and that works great. It won't heat the house, just the room it's in and the ones on either side. But heat it does. It does not come close to the efficiency of a modern, well-built and -designed stove, but it is a million times better than a "normal" fireplace. People who visit here, those who have fireplaces at home, can't believe how well ours works.
Yea, I will take some more time to digest all this info. I do feel that for the way I burn a fireplace, (been burning one since 1992) in a new constructon, I really want the efficincy of a stove type fireplace. I always burn from about 6:00pm till 10:00pm and have to let it die before bed. Then I close the doors. The flu is still open and the outside air inlets (I have two) are open. After a few hrs, the cold starts seeping its way into the unit and by morning, it is flat cold around that fireplace with cold drafts and the heat pump working hard. On the odd cold nights when it was 25 out at night, the heatpump was nonstop and we lost temp in the house by about 3 degrees. With a ZC stove, I can burn all night and use the heat pump less and feel safe.
I would go with a masonry heater. A friend of mine has one in his new 3000sqft log home. Heats him just fine and he's in the Yukon. After seeing his in action I convinced myself not to get a boiler system but a masonry heater for my cabin. Been researching these ever since.
Mt Ski Bum
Minister of Fire
Personally, I'd go with a good, high-quality zero-clearance fireplace, so you're spending money for only one fireplace, instead of a fireplace AND insert.
I recommend one of Fireplace Xtrordinaire's models, or Heat N Glo's North Star model. FPX's are catalitic models, & the H-N-G North Star is a secondary burn model. Both have double arched doors, & optional fire screens for use when the doors are open.
FPX: (broken link removed to http://fireplacex.com/product
uide/wood_fireplaces.aspx)
Heat N Glow North Star: http://www.heatnglo.com/Products/North-Star-Wood-Fireplace.aspx?page=Specifications#
If you do end up going with an insert, get a flush-fitting one, such as the Lopi Declaration, Avalon Perfect Fit, or FPX 33 Elite (all basically the same model)
I recommend one of Fireplace Xtrordinaire's models, or Heat N Glo's North Star model. FPX's are catalitic models, & the H-N-G North Star is a secondary burn model. Both have double arched doors, & optional fire screens for use when the doors are open.
FPX: (broken link removed to http://fireplacex.com/product
uide/wood_fireplaces.aspx)Heat N Glow North Star: http://www.heatnglo.com/Products/North-Star-Wood-Fireplace.aspx?page=Specifications#
If you do end up going with an insert, get a flush-fitting one, such as the Lopi Declaration, Avalon Perfect Fit, or FPX 33 Elite (all basically the same model)
I have a nz 26. Just installed and am enjoying it very much. my wife wanted the nz 3000 but we couldn't afford it. we are going to be hooking it up to our hvac system for better heat transfer through the house. Incidentally, I am in southeast Va. are we close to y'all?
Heat N Go Northstar or the Lennoxsecurity bis tradition. Between those, what do I need to look for? Are they all the same in quality and type of chimney pipe? Warrantees? Thoughts?
Hmmm, well if I were you and building from scratch (so anything goes) I would go one extreme or the other. Decide whether you really want to heat with wood or just ambiance & supplimental heat. For heating I would build a beautiful stone hearth and get a nice big enameled cast iron stove. More for ambiance I would go with the best fireplace I could get, or a true old fashioned large open fireplace and not the small closed off ones of modern times.
One reason I don’t recommend a middle grounds (insert) is because you have a huge area and also a tall room. Now maybe I am wrong with a warmer climate (Ohio is the warmest I've been in) but here our insert (Jotul 550) which is a pretty decent sized unit will not heat half of our house unless outside temps are in the upper 30's / low 40's or warmer. Now understand our house is a bit drafty with thin walls on that side, and that there is two open doorways to the other side of the house that does suck some heat. But the addition (approx half the house) is a bit over 1200 sqft (just from memory) and the insert is in a great room. Problem is you don’t get much radiant heat from it being that’s its only radiating from 1 surface instead of 6 like a stove, so most heat is convection which in a great room goes straight to the ceiling. For us that’s 18' up it goes to get blown back down 18 feet from ceiling fans. Really disperses and cools the air before you get to feel it. If I didn’t already have an existing fireplace I would have went with a freestanding stove but didn’t want to do a major renovation to fit one. I'm slightly disappointed in its heat output and it won’t save me money like I thought. But in conjunction with our big stove on the other side of the house it helps to keep the addition warmer.
One reason I don’t recommend a middle grounds (insert) is because you have a huge area and also a tall room. Now maybe I am wrong with a warmer climate (Ohio is the warmest I've been in) but here our insert (Jotul 550) which is a pretty decent sized unit will not heat half of our house unless outside temps are in the upper 30's / low 40's or warmer. Now understand our house is a bit drafty with thin walls on that side, and that there is two open doorways to the other side of the house that does suck some heat. But the addition (approx half the house) is a bit over 1200 sqft (just from memory) and the insert is in a great room. Problem is you don’t get much radiant heat from it being that’s its only radiating from 1 surface instead of 6 like a stove, so most heat is convection which in a great room goes straight to the ceiling. For us that’s 18' up it goes to get blown back down 18 feet from ceiling fans. Really disperses and cools the air before you get to feel it. If I didn’t already have an existing fireplace I would have went with a freestanding stove but didn’t want to do a major renovation to fit one. I'm slightly disappointed in its heat output and it won’t save me money like I thought. But in conjunction with our big stove on the other side of the house it helps to keep the addition warmer.
Just an update. I think I like the heat n glow northstar. Price is right. looks are what I like Chimney pipe is not expensive and I can get it local to include installation for a great price. I have not read any neg about it unless I simply misread some or did not catch that they were neg. I had liked the BIS/Lenox Tradition as well but cost is a factor there.
Mt Ski Bum
Minister of Fire
williemon said:
Good to hear you found one you like.
If you go ahead with the North Star, keep us updated- I'm thinking about getting a North Star to replace a p-o-s cheapo pre-fab fireplace!
Don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but how about a masonry heater? http://www.mountainflame.com/
I don't own one myself, but a colleague does and really loves it.
I don't own one myself, but a colleague does and really loves it.
Im bias toward the new Harman 300i Insert with doubles blowers built in. About 3k . Big view door which can be opened (or removed)to pop in a fire-view screen.
Im waffleing again. Looked at the specs and pics of the Napoleon NZ3000 and really like it in the wrough iron finish. At least a thousand more in price though. Is it worth it? Who would buy a Napoleon NZ3000 over a northstar and why?
williemon said:
Since you're waffeling, I'll throw another one into the mix: :lol:
http://www.flame-intl.com/product.aspx?CategoId=19&Id=447
.....And it's distant cousin, the Stratford:
(broken link removed to http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=19&Id=439)
This member has one, and loves it:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/thisnthat/19176/
Have fun.
Mt Ski Bum
Minister of Fire
Jimbob said:williemon said:
Since you're waffeling, I'll throw another one into the mix: :lol:
http://www.flame-intl.com/product.aspx?CategoId=19&Id=447
.....And it's distant cousin, the Stratford:
(broken link removed to http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=19&Id=439)
This member has one, and loves it:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/thisnthat/19176/
Have fun.
I'll throw another one into the mix also- Fireplace Xtrordinair just announced a new version of the 36 Elite coming out in early summer- https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/72368/
Have fun deciding & keep us updated!
None of those touch me. Still looking at the northstar or the nz3000 or maybe the bis/lenox tradition.
Mt Ski Bum
Minister of Fire
hotprinter said:
Far out, man! Needs some psycadellic peace signs on it, then it'd be totally groovy, dude! :coolsmile:
Jaugust124 said:
It's been suggested a few times and I'll add my +1. I think anyone building from scratch should research masonry heaters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonry_heater
http://mha-net.org/
(broken link removed)
hotprinter said:
You must have some rich hippies up in Alaska. Down here hippies build a poor mans' masonry heater. It's called a rocket stove mass heater
http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp
Personally I'll save up for a Tulikivi or a Tempcast.
williemon said:
I can't understand this at all. How can cost of the fireplace be a big concern, yet the design of the house screams inefficiency and potential big electric costs over the lifetime of the house. Something is not right here. If money is not an issue, then get a high efficiency ZC fireplace. If money is an issue, then redesign the house prior to building. Sorry for the rant, but I just don't understand.
Your logic leaves me speechless. Its ass clear ass mud to me now. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I would go with a beautiful wood stove or a masonary heater- If I could do it over again thats what I'd do.
Not to muddy the waters but i think if you're committing to new construction and the ability/flexibility to do whatever you want, there's a big question to be answered:
How do you primarily want to heat your home?
I think with the open design and ability to put the stove/insert of your choice in, you have an incredible opportunity to heat the majority/entirety of your house with wood. There are a lot of pros: No dependance on fossil fuel, potentially HUGE cost savings, ambience/appeal of wood heat. It's not without its drawbacks: Commitment to maintaining adequate wood supply, feeding the stove, etc. If you go this route, you should be prepared to burn 24/7 in the winter... not just for 4 hrs a night.
Another alternative to consider is getting a pellet stove (or insert) as the heating source and a separate fireplace/wood burning stove (either as simple "ornamental" piece or functional, heat producing unite) to give you the atmosphere you're looking for. Pellet stove has advantage of less "upkeep" as far as wood supply and time. Just need to have the pellets delivered or go pick up.
With "cost as a concern" the question is whether you want to pay a little more now to save a LOT in the future or just keep paying the electric/oil man in the future.
How do you primarily want to heat your home?
I think with the open design and ability to put the stove/insert of your choice in, you have an incredible opportunity to heat the majority/entirety of your house with wood. There are a lot of pros: No dependance on fossil fuel, potentially HUGE cost savings, ambience/appeal of wood heat. It's not without its drawbacks: Commitment to maintaining adequate wood supply, feeding the stove, etc. If you go this route, you should be prepared to burn 24/7 in the winter... not just for 4 hrs a night.
Another alternative to consider is getting a pellet stove (or insert) as the heating source and a separate fireplace/wood burning stove (either as simple "ornamental" piece or functional, heat producing unite) to give you the atmosphere you're looking for. Pellet stove has advantage of less "upkeep" as far as wood supply and time. Just need to have the pellets delivered or go pick up.
With "cost as a concern" the question is whether you want to pay a little more now to save a LOT in the future or just keep paying the electric/oil man in the future.
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