Burn tubes warped, fell out of the stove in the bottem of the box!

[MountainStoveGuy]

I had a nice customer today, well a irrate nice customer today, that brought me his burn tubes and some photos of the firebox. The burn tubes looked like a pile of cooked speggetie. After the tonge lashing was over, and he said his piece, i asked him. "how much construction lumber did you run through this thing?" He looked at me like i was a idiot, and stated, "THATS ALL I USE! ITS A FRIGGING (but the real word) CONSTRUCTION SITE!!" As i was wiping the spit off my face, i got the owners manual, and photocopied the warrenty section, and the section that states that you must burn seasoned cord wood, stapled it together, with his original recipt and my card, and advised him to take it up with whoever he thinks is responsible.. He decded that wasnt the info he was looking for and wadded it up and threw it on the floor, cussing my store on the way out the door. The guys wife who was red from embarresment, complety flipped out when she found out what caused it, i feel for him tonite. (not realy)

Point is, you folks reading this, scrap lumber is not ok, no were near ok. These stoves burn to hot, and that wood is to dry, you can seriously overfire your stove like this guy did.

 

[Roospike]

This world is full of morons ............ Its just too bad you had to run into to one that wanted to set the blame on someone else . All you can do is shake you head and hope not to run across "there" problems. I bet this guy shouldn't dare to talk to you like that if your were in a parking lot. He should of had his A$$ hammered. Just unreal . Just laugh at him ........... he's the moron and he has to live with his own problems.

 

[Roospike]

BTW , I thought it was funny he even brought "PROOF" pictures of his burn box to confirm he is a moron. He needs an award ............Also , Over the years I have seen many a wood stove brought to me wanting to fix .............. The problem ? , over fired ! 9 time out of 10 i tell them the only thing save-able is the pedestal and the door handle , everything else is warped beyond repair .

 

[JAred]

Howdy, Crazy stuff. I've burnt my share of pallets last year. I always kept I eye on things and kept the fire damped down tho. Sounds like this guy had the flue open all the way and would stuff as much lumber in there as he could!

 

[brian_in_idaho]

MSG, sorry to hear that you had a customer like that. Some people just need to be taken behind the barn and taught some manners. Hopefully he will realize he screwed up and come back and make nice...while he buys replacement parts.

BTW, thanks for posting the info on construction lumber. I'll be burning it for a while, but only for kindling.

Bri

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

MSG, sorry to hear that you had a customer like that. Some people just need to be taken behind the barn and taught some manners. Hopefully he will realize he screwed up and come back and make nice...while he buys replacement parts.

BTW, thanks for posting the info on construction lumber. I'll be burning it for a while, but only for kindling.

Bri

hopefully he wont be coming back to buy parts. But from his point of view, he spend some big change on a stove, thought he was doing the right thing, severly screwed up his stove, snow dropped pretty hard last night, and he has no heat. I can feel his pain. Who else to take it out on? He knows now he should have cracked the manual. I posted this for a few reasons, one, its been one of those weeks, and 2, to warn the skeptics that think they can burn any thing, and hopefull save some members from making the same mistake. Jared has the correct point here... moderation is key. In all my years i had not seen a stove damaged like this.

 

[smirnov3]

Another problem with pressure treated wood - it contains arsenic. Not something you want to be breathing, or having getting into your drinking water.

 

[roscolo]

What make of stove was it?

 

[PAJerry]

I'm glad you didn't give in to this guy. He's probably done the same type of thing to a lot of tools/appliances he has owned. Sad part is, these guys are everywhere.

 

[K31Scout]

New to woodstove guy here. I've been cutting all the dead standing wood off my 11 acres for this season and it's all really rock hard and very dry. Sugar Maple, Beech, Ash and Iron wood. Could this wood be too dry?

I will get a chimney thermometer and control the draft but what temp. constitutes overheating?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Natural dried wood is not going to ever be to dry. Its kilned dried wood thats a problem.
Roscolo, it was a quad, but that has nothing to do with it, no brand of stove would take repeated fireboxes full of 2x4's. Like he said, that was all he was burning for the last 2 seasons.

 

[Marty]

Before I bought the Mansfield my other 'Quad' dealer said that you could burn 1 or 2 lumps of coal in the Isle royale per load.

Does that sound right?.. and does that apply to any make of stove as well?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Marty, i know nothing about coal, i started a thread back last winter asking questions about coal. I would say if the manual says you can burn coal, then burn it. I dont think it does.

 

[Shane]

Technically you should not put coal in the wood stove. Have I seen it done like you said a "lump or two" for an overnight burn. Yep. That guy must have had no idea what he was doing. I burned construction lumber (no pressure treated stuff) for 3 months last year. It's harder to control and you have to really watch your stove top thermometer but it can be done without any ill effect on the stove. It's customers like that, that can really make your week huh? I wonder how one gets to a point of such arrogance. I just melted a set of 16 ga. tubes. Surely this stove is a piece of crap! I wonder if he realizes the kind of temperature it takes to make spaghetti out of those tubes.
Not to hijack your thread but I had a lady come in last year. We had sold here a wood stove 5 years previous to that. She came in pretty mad. it seems that the paint had just "burned off her stove for no apparant reason." I did the idiot test and went a grabbed a stove top thermometer (the same one I knew was on her stove top). I asked her if she had ever gotten it into the red area (900 range) and of course she would have never done that. She literally asked me if I thought she was stupid. Then Jr. pops up and says "yeah you have mom it's been in the red alot of times!" It was as they say priceless. I walked in the back and grabbed her a 1/2 can of paint we had laying around and told her to have a nice day.

 

[Dave_1]

Shane,

That guy must have had no idea what he was doing. I burned construction lumber (no pressure treated stuff) for 3 months last year. It’s harder to control and you have to really watch your stove top thermometer but it can be done without any ill effect on the stove.

Exactly, & thus the problem. Most customer’s do not have a background in wood heater operation so do not know the dangers & or correct practices. A professional salesperson includes in the heater price a thermometer & explains why it must be used, for if it is left up to the customer to buy the temp gauge the vast majority do not.

(Was at my b-i-l's Saturday & because he has not used a temp gauge his metal inside chimney needs replacing. BTW, we built our houses within a year of each other & my metalbestos hardly looks used when compared to his.)

A professional salesperson also explain the fire up temp, running temp, & the temp when creosote starts taking place. Then it is up to the customer to observe such practices or suffer the consequences as you have well noted.

As someone has wisely said; “There is a cure for ignorance, but none for stupidity.”

Dave

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Shane,

That guy must have had no idea what he was doing. I burned construction lumber (no pressure treated stuff) for 3 months last year. It’s harder to control and you have to really watch your stove top thermometer but it can be done without any ill effect on the stove.

Exactly, & thus the problem. Most customer’s do not have a background in wood heater operation so do not know the dangers & or correct practices. A professional salesperson includes in the heater price a thermometer & explains why it must be used, for if it is left up to the customer to buy the temp gauge the vast majority do not.

(Was at my b-i-l's Saturday & because he has not used a temp gauge his metal inside chimney needs replacing. BTW, we built our houses within a year of each other & my metalbestos hardly looks used when compared to his.)

A professional salesperson also explain the fire up temp, running temp, & the temp when creosote starts taking place. Then it is up to the customer to observe such practices or suffer the consequences as you have well noted.

As someone has wisely said; “There is a cure for ignorance, but none for stupidity.”

Dave

Dave, your right. Im a crap salesperson. its up to me to tell each and every customer how to use and operate there stove. Consumers have no personal responsibility. We professionals have the "duty" to make shure we hold every ones hand. Every stove goes out of here with a thermometer and a instruction manual. When they check out they are told to read it. If they dont, not my problem. I guess i should come to there house and teach them how to make a fire too, becuase there new to woodburning, (which i did friday night) Dave, dont hijack this thread with this baloney. If you have information reguarding personal experences burning construction lumber, fine. The "how do i deal with customers" thread is over.

 

[Shane]

The problem with the "educating the consumer" aspect is that the type of person MSG is telling us about is not going to listen to some "salesman" about how to burn his stove. He's been burning wood stoves since their very inception and does not need a manual or some smart ass punk telling him anything. Really though I would say if anyone is responsible for telling the customer how to operate the stove it should be the installer. And my guess is that the guy MSG is refering to did his own install. I have a disclaimer on the bottom of our chimney sweeping inspection sheet stating that I have no control over conditions of use etc. and won't be held responsible blah blah for that exact reason. You cannot control people. Some will read and readily accept advice offered by professionals some won't.

 

[senorFrog]

MSG,

A few nurseries in my area sell Kiln Dried FIREWOOD. I think a company up in VT dries it. It's shipped to MASS in log form. Then cut and and split at the nursery. IS THAT OKAY TO USE?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Your owners manual will state what is acceptable to burn in your stove, i have no idea about that kind of wood. I have never heard of kiln dried firewood, but then again, i havent heard of alot of things. Possible somone else can answer that for you. My gut would tell me no way.

 

[BrotherBart]

MSG,

A few nurseries in my area sell Kiln Dried FIREWOOD. I think a company up in VT dries it. It's shipped to MASS in log form. Then cut and and split at the nursery. IS THAT OKAY TO USE?

The mass marketers of fire wood use kilns to dry the wood faster. They take it down to the same 15 to 20 percent moisture content that ideally air dried cord wood would contain so it is fine to burn in a stove. In fact it is ideal. Kiln drying just allows them to get the stuff ready to ship in three days instead of a year.

Kiln dried lumber on the other hand is taken down to the 6 to 7 percent equilibrium moisture content common is homes and office buildings that are usually around 30% relative humidity. That stuff burns like gasoline in a stove and should not be burned in one except for kindling or small amounts for a short period.

 

[Roospike]

Exactly .......... Agreed with what Brother B said.

MSG,

A few nurseries in my area sell Kiln Dried FIREWOOD. I think a company up in VT dries it. It's shipped to MASS in log form. Then cut and and split at the nursery. IS THAT OKAY TO USE?

The mass marketers of fire wood use kilns to dry the wood faster. They take it down to the same 15 to 20 percent moisture content that ideally air dried cord wood would contain so it is fine to burn in a stove. In fact it is ideal. Kiln drying just allows them to get the stuff ready to ship in three days instead of a year.

Kiln dried lumber on the other hand is taken down to the 6 to 7 percent moisture content common is homes and office builds. That stuff burns like gasoline in a stove and should not be burned in one except for kindling or small amounts for a short period.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

MSG,

A few nurseries in my area sell Kiln Dried FIREWOOD. I think a company up in VT dries it. It's shipped to MASS in log form. Then cut and and split at the nursery. IS THAT OKAY TO USE?

The mass marketers of fire wood use kilns to dry the wood faster. They take it down to the same 15 to 20 percent moisture content that ideally air dried cord wood would contain so it is fine to burn in a stove. In fact it is ideal. Kiln drying just allows them to get the stuff ready to ship in three days instead of a year.

Kiln dried lumber on the other hand is taken down to the 6 to 7 percent equilibrium moisture content common is homes and office buildings that are usually around 30% relative humidity. That stuff burns like gasoline in a stove and should not be burned in one except for kindling or small amounts for a short period.

ya see! you learn something new every day. I would bet that the little plastic packs of firewood we sell are kiln dried. i never new it, and we burn it all the time in our display stoves.

 

[Dave_1]

Dave, your right. Im a crap salesperson. its up to me to tell each and every customer how to use and operate there stove. Consumers have no personal responsibility. We professionals have the “duty” to make shure we hold every ones hand. Every stove goes out of here with a thermometer and a instruction manual. When they check out they are told to read it. If they dont, not my problem. I guess i should come to there house and teach them how to make a fire too, becuase there new to woodburning, (which i did friday night) Dave, dont hijack this thread with this baloney. If you have information reguarding personal experences burning construction lumber, fine. The “how do i deal with customers” thread is over.

Msg, no offense intended but you seem to take my posts personally. Therefore please point out the sentence(s) where I stated that you were “a crap salesperson”, ok?

Is my post clearly directed to Shane, yes or no?

Was my comment about the use of a temp gauge, that neither my b-i-l or myself were told about when we bought our different heaters from different hearth stores, in line with Shane’s experience with a customer who essentially ignored the device, yes or no?

Since it is apparent, to the unbiased, that such is clearly the case than your explanation as to why you think that I'm implying you are "a crap salesman" & that I’m trying to “hijack” this thread will be an interesting study of your logic.

Right?

Dave

 

[Dave_1]

The problem with the “educating the consumer” aspect is that the type of person MSG is telling us about is not going to listen to some “salesman” about how to burn his stove. He’s been burning wood stoves since their very inception and does not need a manual or some smart ass punk telling him anything. Really though I would say if anyone is responsible for telling the customer how to operate the stove it should be the installer. And my guess is that the guy MSG is refering to did his own install. I have a disclaimer on the bottom of our chimney sweeping inspection sheet stating that I have no control over conditions of use etc. and won’t be held responsible blah blah for that exact reason. You cannot control people. Some will read and readily accept advice offered by professionals some won’t.

Shane, point taken. My point was that the new wood burning customer will have a greater tendency to use the temp gauge if it is included. In the case you cite the mother refused to use the device, but like I stated there is no cure for stupidity.

Have a good one.

Dave

 

[Dave_1]

Wood-Drying Kilns
<snip>
"high-air-velocity southern pine kilns can dry 1 inch thick green lumber in 10 hours down to a moisture content of 18%. However, 1 inch thick green oak requires about 28 days to dry down to a moisture content of 8%. Hardwood kilns also require special humidity sprays to keep the relative humidity inside the kiln from dropping too low during the drying cycle.

Most softwood lumber kilns operate below 240 degrees F temperature. Most hardwood lumber kilns operate below 180 degrees F temperature. Many hardwood kilns never exceed 140 degrees F temperature. Some modern lumber kilns are also partially depressurized to speed the drying process and reduce fuel usage."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiln