Calls to the Fire Dept

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Wood-row Wilson

Member
Nov 4, 2011
44
SW Michigan
I've had my Garn Jr. up and running for a few weeks now, and I received a bit of a scare this morning when just before leaving work I see a medic (first responder, I guess) stop just past my driveway on the road and start jogging up my driveway. He said someone called and reported that my pole barn was on fire! Well, it wasn't thankfully..but instead my smoke billowing out of my horizontal flue after loading and firing it up in the morning. So follows the lieutenant and a fire truck until he's able to relay that it's no fire, just smoke from the boiler.

Thinking about it now, I'm actually a bit surprised this is the first time someone has called. The building is only 100 feet from the road and easy to see, and on a still day the smoke doesn't immediately blow away from the building, exposing the extended flue. I have it extend 2 feet as prescribed by Garn but with no wind and a recent fire started, the smoke just shoots down into the barrel and surrounds the. To the uneducated, it's quick and easy to think first the place is on fire.

I left the fire lieutenant with my contact information, and I would expect a follow-up conversation. What should I expect? Has anyone dealt with a similar situation?
 
I had someone call the FD when I was building a small manufacturing facility which I was heating with a propane furnace that vented through the wall with 2 inch PVC pipe. Wasn't smoke it was steam and not much of it.
 
@Lake Girl, I'm not sure if your question was to ask me if I had pulled a permit (No, I didn't :oops:) or to suggest that's what the fire dept. may be looking for in the meantime. I suppose either way, I have to claim ignorance and ask for a bit of education on this one.
 
Live with a career fire fighter, now Chief but prior Fire Prevention officer. While he might give you heck for not pulling a permit, he would ensure install was safe - to code and by-laws. He's more an education guy - some are enforcement guys and may not cut you any slack:( I hope it swings the education way with just the fee for the permit...
 
Wood-row Wilson said:
@Lake Girl, I'm not sure if your question was to ask me if I had pulled a permit (No, I didn't :oops:) or to suggest that's what the fire dept. may be looking for in the meantime. I suppose either way, I have to claim ignorance and ask for a bit of education on this one.
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The problem is you MAY have had needed a permit and inspection to install the stove. If you did and don't have one there could be problems. If you want to be proactive, call the zoning board or the town and ask. If you don't have a zoning board you might not need a permit or an inspection but twelve years as a volunteer firefighter lieutenant tells me you're at least likely in for some 'splainin. We didn't enjoy rolling trucks 'cause someone "forgot" to get a permit or did an install that made a structure look like it was smoldering.
 
As a career fireman I can assure you that if this happened in my community there is zero chance that we would check to see if you have a permit. Perhaps other municipalities are different , but we do not have a process in place for checking construction permits. Certainly the officer could call the building department and obtain the data, but it's just not likely.

There is already too much paperwork and other duties that fire officers are responsible for. The last thing most want to do is cause more paperwork for themselves while negatively impacting one of our customers.

I would not invest much worry into this event if I were you.
 
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Lapeer20m said:
As a career fireman I can assure you that if this happened in my community there is zero chance that we would check to see if you have a permit. Perhaps other municipalities are different , but we do not have a process in place for checking construction permits. Certainly the officer could call the building department and obtain the data, but it's just not likely.

There is already too much paperwork and other duties that fire officers are responsible for. The last thing most want to do is cause more paperwork for themselves while negatively impacting one of our customers.

I would not invest much worry into this event if I were you.
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So how many times will you roll a pumper and a rig responding to a false rather than take the chance that it's not a cry of wolf and maybe lose a structure? After time number two we'd tell 'em to clean up their act or they'd start paying for time number three and the Twp would back us up. As well, if your equipment and personnel are out and a real call goes down how much time will you lose responding to the second scene?
 
F4jock said:
So how many times will you roll a pumper and a rig responding to a false rather than take the chance that it's not a cry of wolf and maybe lose a structure? After time number two we'd tell 'em to clean up their act or they'd start paying for time number three and the Twp would back us up. As well, if your equipment and personnel are out and a real call goes down how much time will you lose responding to the second scene?
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Yes - but what will having a permit in place (if that is even a consideration where the OP is) do for a smoke issue? Also, the OP is in SW Michigan - someplace I have no clue about. Are you familiar with his local situation?
 
Is a permit going to stop some fool from reporting a barn fire? He doesn't have a copy of the permit. In the experience I encountered the furnace was permanently installed in the fall to heat the office area and the neighbor that called in the alarm in January lived across the street. That wasn't the first time steam was coming from the exhaust.
 
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maple1 said:
Yes - but what will having a permit in place (if that is even a consideration where the OP is) do for a smoke issue? Also, the OP is in SW Michigan - someplace I have no clue about. Are you familiar with his local situation?
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If the permit or ordinance requires a stack vent above the roofline or a stack of any kind it will be obvious where the smoke is coming from and no, I'm not. Also. SW Michigan itself probably doesn't have ordinances per se. Those are usually the perview of county, city, town etc.

Seems the entire situation could be solved by the addition of a few feet of vertical vent.
 
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Fred61 said:
Is a permit going to stop some fool from reporting a barn fire? He doesn't have a copy of the permit. In the experience I encountered the furnace was permanently installed in the fall to heat the office area and the neighbor that called in the alarm in January lived across the street. That wasn't the first time steam was coming from the exhaust.
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If the person reporting the "fire" did so based on what was coming from the stack they need some reeducation. If it was a neighbor that will handle the situation. Many ordinances state that the installation needs to be "reasonable and customary" on the exterior such that smoke and fumes are vented so as to not cause harm, damage or discomfort to neighbors. A few feet of vertical vent might solve the problem.
 
Yes the vertical vent would appear conventional, showing a distinct seperation from the bldg or roof. However the ul listed garn, if the manual is followed and it is a horizontal unit, it's not necessary to go vertical! The problem is not knowing the difference between smoke and steam.
 
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TCaldwell said:
Yes the vertical vent would appear conventional, showing a distinct seperation from the bldg or roof. However the ul listed garn, if the manual is followed and it is a horizontal unit, it's not necessary to go vertical! The problem is not knowing the difference between smoke and steam.
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The point isn't what Garn requires, it's to preclude further false alarms. The OP should be willing to do this if only to insure the safety of First Responders and by extension the community.
 
F4jock said:
If the person reporting the "fire" did so based on what was coming from the stack they need some reeducation. If it was a neighbor that will handle the situation. Many ordinances state that the installation needs to be "reasonable and customary" on the exterior such that smoke and fumes are vented so as to not cause harm, damage or discomfort to neighbors. A few feet of vertical vent might solve the problem.
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Never have seen a 2 inch PVC exhaust go from the basement up through the roof nor have I seen one exit the wall and go vertical clearing the soffit and facia above the roof. Most, if not all have a ell pointing down for weather protection.
 
I'm a firefighter as well, We do follow ups only when asked by the homeowner. When we fill out the nifers report it doesn't ask us if the homeowner has a permit. What gets people in trouble (not residential) is when a situation arises and we call the building dept / fire marshal (usually in places that have public occupancy) If there's an actual fire we have to by law notify our county fire marshal (whether its public or private residence) and there investigation will also include pulling the files to see if permits were applied for. I wouldn't worry to much about a wood stove or boiler permit (unless your insurance wont pay if a problem occurs) the permits that I worry about are building, pluming, and electrical, that's just because if I sell my place they can with hold the sale until all permits are done, to get an inspection on building, pluming and electrical means they have to see the structure ie: no sheet rock or finishes.
 
Fred61 said:
Never have seen a 2 inch PVC exhaust go from the basement up through the roof nor have I seen one exit the wall and go vertical clearing the soffit and facia above the roof. Most, if not all have a ell pointing down for weather protection.
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Ell it up two feet, put a shield on it and I bet the problem goes away.
 
Hubby currently dealing with a resident that is unhappy as the residence next door is owned by a First Nations group. They have an area behind the house they use for smudging (burning sweet grass) and are not crazy about frequency or amount. Complaint went to municipal council but the installation exceeds code requirements and is not banned by by-laws. Municipality cannot ban as that would result in Human Rights violation as it is a traditional practice.... Worse part is that the times he has gone to investigate (at least 4x), smoke not an issue... more an issue of an ornery neighbour.;hm
 
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F4jock said:
Heh. If you guys are good I have one of her in the classic little black dress. . . . .
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When I first saw the new avatar, had to double check the name cause I did the "Wait a minute f4jock is a guy...";lol;lol
 
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