can a masonry heater be a DIY project?

[ketoret]

i've read many posts that sound like folks are drooling over the functionality of a masonry heater but keep stubbing their toe against the cost. I feel much the same way.
But I can't help wondering if a fellow with good plans, the right materials, patience (and a patient spouse, let's not ferget), and a mason within shouting distance can't build one themselves. I know that masonry is an art, a craft, and a science, but I also know from experience that while caring for the job can't completely make up for lack of experience, it can go a long way.

Plans are available from MHA. I found a company about a half hour away that sells firebrick and all the other stuff, and said he'd help with talking me through the technical stuff. There's another place that sells beautiful antique brick, or if i want to go on the cheap (or have to), there's plenty of flat faced stone around (and i do have some experience building dry work terraces). There's a fellow in my village who builds fireplaces who would help solve on-site technical issues. And although much of my house is on pillars, it so happens that the best place for the stove is a place which has slab underneath. One advantage I have here is that I don't have to worry about building code folk and taxes - I live right near the end of the world (last driveway on the left before you fall off), so folk don't really care what you do around here inside your own home. At least, when it comes to heating.


I feel like there's a li'l red devil on one shoulder and a winged angel on the other, but I don't know which is saying, "go ahead, try it!" and which is saying, "are you NUTS!????"

anybody want to give a word of support or warning?

 

[begreen]

I don't see why not as long as you are patient, thorough and get good guidance. There are kits from Temp-Cast that will help you with the core if want to make the task simpler. Just be sure you put it on a solid support foundation. It's a lot of weight.

(broken link removed)

 

[babalu87]

When you think about it unless some seriously special tools are involved everything can be a DIY project provided you can get the proper materials and direction.

 

[ketoret]

bgreen, if i could afford a core kit + shipping + import tax, i wouldn't hesitate. it's the building of the core itself which gives me pause.

bal - what kind of specialized tools do you mean?

 

[babalu87]

ketoret
I wasnt speaking in terms of a masonry heater with specialized tools. I was trying to convey that some things cant be done DIY because they would need highly specialized equipment.
IE building a rocketship or something of that ilk but anything built from soapstone, granite, wood etc, could always be done by a homeowner if they were willing to put forth the time.

 

[Cath]

...
Plans are available from MHA. I found a company about a half hour away that sells firebrick and all the other stuff, and said he'd help with talking me through the technical stuff. There's another place that sells beautiful antique brick, or if i want to go on the cheap (or have to), there's plenty of flat faced stone around (and i do have some experience building dry work terraces). There's a fellow in my village who builds fireplaces who would help solve on-site technical issues. And although much of my house is on pillars, it so happens that the best place for the stove is a place which has slab underneath. One advantage I have here is that I don't have to worry about building code folk and taxes - I live right near the end of the world (last driveway on the left before you fall off), so folk don't really care what you do around here inside your own home. At least, when it comes to heating.
...
anybody want to give a word of support or warning?

ketoret,
My biggest concern for you would be that the slab is thick enough, wide enough, strong enough, etc. I've only just begun to do a little reading on this but depending upon the size and weight of the masonry heater you have in mind you may need a really thick pad, a certain depth beneath the frost line, perhaps reinforced with re-bar, etc.

If the existing pad is inadequate you may need to dig part of it up and build a stronger pad, or pick a new location and start from scratch.

Which brings me to my next question, will it be centrally located and is the floor plan open?

My suggestion is that you buy a couple of the MHA books from their online bookstore and perhaps even pick up the plans. Also, the MHA has a "Yahoo Group" for laypersons. I would consider becoming a member and then simply start posting with a basic description of your layout and the concrete pad and get some feedback on what you may be limited to or what you could do to improve your set up for the purposes of putting in size that you are hoping for.

We are toying with the same idea but we may be limited to a small contraflow in a finished basement. In which case it wouldn't be a whole house heater.

Good luck,
~Cath

 

[gpcollen1]

I expect that i could build one in front of an existing fireplace. That would be pretty cool.

 

[ketoret]

yeah, my rocketship is still unfinished out back. couldn't find the right glue to keep the fins on. but yes, babalu, that's what I've been thinking. there is a certain amount of science and expertise in the design of the thing - well beyond me. but the work itself...i'm sure i'll bungle some stuff, but there is help around. this thing works on wood, not uranium.

cath, building in israel is, well, slightly more advanced than living in caves, but not much. most of the building is 30 cm thick poured concrete floors
, concrete pillars, and concrete block - wonderful r values, you can't imagine. I at least was able to use ytong, this aerated concrete, for my walls, which is a lot better. But the point is, foundations here are built for real massive buildings. I'll have an engineer look at it anyway, to be sure, but I'd be shocked if it were not strong enough. The house plan is pretty open, except for the bedrooms. I'd be putting the heater onto or into a wall that separates the living/dining/kitchen area from the hall with bedrooms (I actually had that wall made of concrete-filled concrete block, so it is a natural heatsink). if you want to exchange ideas on plans and work, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

 

[ketoret]

pook, you're saying this b/c it is a common issue with masonry stoves, or something to be particularly careful about, or something that an amateur would not know how to do well?

 

[Burn-1]

Pook Russian fireplaces are another name for a masonry heater among the many and most of them do have some type of damper to close after firing since they burn out completely leaving very little charcoal or embers which might leak out CO but clsoing the damper keeps room air from venting and cooling the masonry mass.

 

[woody&sons]

here's a good masonry heater construction sequence.
(broken link removed)

 

[KeithO]

Ketoret, I too have looked into masonry heaters. The main thing is to build the core EXACTLY to a known proven design. The facing is ultimately just decorative and adds some additional heat storage. The core is very stressed because of the thermal cycles and will fail if one uses the wrong materials, technique or mortar. If the core fails, you have to tear down the whole thing and start over. Obviously that would be a rather large disapointment. This kind of thing is not a rumor, I have read of some bad "professional" instalations that failed within a few burns where a second mason has ultimately rebuilt the whole thing.

Also remember that operation is entirely manual and trying to burn the fire without properly opening the damper (or closing the damper too soon) is a sure way to die from CO poisoning. Be sure to fit at least 1 CO alarm, it may save our life.

Other than that, they are great and offer a more comfortable experience than any other wood burning heater. Especially if you combine one with a bake oven, it is a great way to bake fresh bread.

Spend the money and buy the MHA design book.

 

[HumaneSocietySteve]

Ketoret,

I have been checking out this site for years now. They have a lot of very interesting stuff including a Russian Masonry Fireplace article. Check it out.


(broken link removed to http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/masonry.htm)

 

[Cath]

... Also remember that operation is entirely manual and trying to burn the fire without properly opening the damper (or closing the damper too soon) is a sure way to die from CO poisoning. Be sure to fit at least 1 CO alarm, it may save our life.
...
Spend the money and buy the MHA design book.

KeithO,
I think it was one of your earlier posts that got me thinking about Masonry Heaters. Thanks for the warning on the Carbon Monoxide. That's the first I've heard of that.

I wouldn't do anything without investing in MHA books, plans, etc.

~Cath

 

[ketoret]

keith - i wouldn't think of trying this on my own smarts - a fatal mistake if there ever was one. I'm ordering the MHA portfolio, and your idea of a CO2 monitor also occurred to me. Better safe than sorry.

The question in my mind is if i need to engage a consultant state-side, someone who has successfully built masonry stoves, to help guide me through this, or if I can do this myself, with good plans, and the help I can find locally. Any thought on that?

 

[ketoret]

woody&sons;- that is a great site!! Thank you Cath, you should check it out.

(broken link removed)

it's a really clear photo log of building a masonry heater.

 

[KeithO]

Instead of trying to get a proffessional back home, why not attend the next MHA gathering this year ? They typically get together in South Carolina I think and you can get to test your skills and see first hand how these things are done. It will also give you a good idea about whether you would feel in over your head on something like this. That is what I plan to do before I build my own heater. In fact I plan on getting certified since there appears to be no certified heater mason in southern Colorado.

keith - i wouldn't think of trying this on my own smarts - a fatal mistake if there ever was one. I'm ordering the MHA portfolio, and your idea of a CO2 monitor also occurred to me. Better safe than sorry.

The question in my mind is if i need to engage a consultant state-side, someone who has successfully built masonry stoves, to help guide me through this, or if I can do this myself, with good plans, and the help I can find locally. Any thought on that?

 

[Cath]

woody&sons;- that is a great site!! Thank you Cath, you should check it out. ... (broken link removed) ...

Ketoret,
I skimmed the article and pictures. When I have a little more time I'll explore the pyromasse site.
~Cath

 

[Cath]

Instead of trying to get a proffessional back home, why not attend the next MHA gathering this year ? ...

keith, ... The question in my mind is if i need to engage a consultant state-side, someone who has successfully built masonry stoves, to help guide me through this, or if I can do this myself, with good plans, and the help I can find locally. Any thought on that?

KeithO,
It looks like Ketoret is in Israel. I don't know if it would be as cost effective for him to travel to a U.S. MHA seminar series.

But if he is interested, there is an upcoming annual meeting in North Carolina in April of 2008. You may have seen my recent post on that. If not let me know and I'll forward you the details.

Note, the April meeting does conflict with U.S. tax time so anyone that would like to go should get their taxes done early.
~Cath

 

[Burn-1]

(broken link removed) of a DIY masonry heater which may be helpful for some.

Ketoret, I couldn't find the link but some time ago we had posted about a Spanish stove which is designed to burn almond husks,(probably other stone fruit seeds as well), olive pits, etc. Supposedly they put out substantial heat for their size. Not to dissuade you from wood heat or a masonry heater but I'm imagining those types of fuels would be availabe in Israel.

 

[woody&sons]

http://ian.macky.net/house/page13.html
here's a Tulikivi sequence. It's a top exit which means the downdraft channels are divided in half so the gases go down the front two and up the back two, entering the chimney on top. I've never been able to make it to an MHA meeting in North Carolina but i would really like to go one day.

 

[ketoret]

i have been considering coming to the states for a seminar - i get to the states once a year on business, and thought that maybe I could either attend a formal seminar or if there were none in my time frame, to try to convince a professional to let me accompany him/her on a job. the other possibility would be flying someone in for a week. keitho, what does it take to get certified? If my project comes off and I like it, I could see this as a possible side profession. The environmental side of it appeals to me a lot, and there's a growing green awareness here might provide a market.

that idea about a spanish stove that burns olive pits - if you remember where, tell me - i'll give it a search also - we have an olive oil factory in our community, and i'd wager they'd even pay me to haul away the pits and waste! that would be a good one - get paid to heat heat your home!

a friend of mine went through the photo sequence and thinks i'm nuts to even think about this. am i missing something? it looks like a real challenge, but not as technically difficult as, let's say, splicing DNA (not that i do that either, but you get the point). a little experience would really settle me down - maybe i'll see if there's a masonry heater builder in England or Europe who could help me out.

 

[Burn-1]

that idea about a spanish stove that burns olive pits - if you remember where, tell me - i'll give it a search also - we have an olive oil factory in our community, and i'd wager they'd even pay me to haul away the pits and waste! that would be a good one - get paid to heat heat your home!

(broken link removed to http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.hipercass.com/caracteristicas_estufas.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev;=/search?q=estufa+almendra&hl=en&safe=off) is the one we were previously discussing.

It appears there are many multi-fuel biomass stoves like pellet stoves which can burn olive pits and grindings also called pomace.

 

[ketoret]

indeed, i was checking this out last night, and i find that some stoves are presented in articles as consuming olive pits, but the site for the stove talks only about pellets. i have not yet found a stove that actually admits, right there on the manufacturer's page, that it eats pits. i keep looking, though.

 

[d.hebert]

Building a masonry heater can be a DIY job. I'm not that handy and I built the core on my Temp-Cast heater. I have a friend who built the whole thing himself (also a temp-cast). There are many kits and plans out there but I'd highly recommend Temp-Cast if you are planning on DIY as the construction is greatly simplified. If you want to build it completely from scratch you may save $4000 over a Temp-cast but risk making a major mistake that could either burn your house down, poison you with CO, or require you to tear it down and begin again. Even if you build it completely from scratch still figure on spending about $5000 for brick, insulated chimney, and firedoors and other misc hardware. The instructions from Temp-Cast are very good and the customer support is excellent. I sub contracted out the chimney, block foundation/slab, and stone veneer but if I had more time and ambition I could have done this myself. I have a detailed post under "my masonry heater" that goes into greater detail about the cost and construction. Good luck.