Can I turn a Defiant Encore upside down?

[SonOfEru]

Hard to believe but I actually did this.

I've been finding the damper handle on my Defiant Encore 0028/2140 getting "sticky". It no longer swings smoothly into place, it's been catching about midway through the swing and I have had to gingerly tease it into full snapped-in shut. If I force it when it catches, it just stops dead right there and I have to sort of repeatedly nudge it

So I pulled the flue pipe off and figured out that the problem is at the place where the rod turns upward and slides along the middle of the back of the damper plate, under the steel tab. I was going to just take the tab off and smooth it down, since it looks a bit rusty. Last year it was ok, but starting with this year's burning season it has been sticky and getting worse.

Alas, I made the mistake of setting a flashlight down on top of the refractory cover, inside the flue collar I think you call it. It's one of those small LED flashlights that fits in your pocket. The flashlight brand is Defiant, how is that for fun?

But it was not fun when I bumped it and it rolled to the end and fell down in between the refractory assembly and the outside wall, on the damper handle side.

I've tried everything I can think of, but it's just too deep and too tight to get anything in there to grab it or stick to it, and it's aluminum so a magnet wont grab it.

The only things left that I can think of are

1. Remove the catalyst access panel. But the screws wont budge. I could finally take it to my workshop and weld a nut on each screw and back them out that way but would rather not just yet. Some day I will have to in order to change the catalytic, but not just yet. And I dont even know if with the plate off I could get into the cavity where the flashlight is. would I have to remove the refractory pieces and would that be risky? I would rather not test that idea

2. Turn the whole thing upside down and let it fall out. But again, what would that do to the refractory? Would pieces fall out and maybe break?

Any advice on those ideas, or any other ideas?

Also I want to ask - one idea was to run a flexible rod down, with sticky stuff on the end, but the flashlight was too much covered with ash and black powder. I thought of using my shop vac, with a smaller and more flexible hose duct-taped to the regular hose, to get down there and clean out the ash and powder, but again I worry about damaging the refractory .

Luckily I do have central heat and it's on now, because it's already cold here in New Hampshire

Thanks

SonOfEru

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Does the lower fireback come out easily?

 

[SonOfEru]

I am hesitant to get into disassembly. The stove is old, and I fear the screws in the catalytic access panel are not the only ones that would be rusted in tight as a drum. The stove was bought in 1990 and used for maybe 5 years, then the owner put in central heat, keeping the stove for backup [we have power failures in this neck of the woods, that can go on for days]. But when he got a generator, he was willing to sell me the stove for a good price, so I got a relatively old stove with not much wear and tear yet. But screws are a concern.

I have never disassembled one. Does the lower fireback come out without other parts having to be removed? And what would be the reassembly? New gasket? New furnace cement? I am handy at lots of things but no experience with that

 

[brenndatomu]

Grabber tool?
(broken link removed to https://www.walmart.com/ip/4-Pack-34-Flexible-Claw-Pick-up-Grabber-Steel-Retriever-Tool-with-4-Prong-Claw/326807389?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=8588&adid=22222222222074594972&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=83150566944481&wl4=pla-4586750194457761:aud-807612879&wl12=326807389_10000002641&wl14=grabber%20tool&veh=sem&msclkid=e560fe4c61f917ce44bba587debba3eb)

 

[SonOfEru]

I looked at one of those, taking another identical flashlight with me, but the claws were too small, they couldnt get around the barrel of the flashlight

 

[brenndatomu]

I looked at one of those, taking another identical flashlight with me, but the claws were too small, they couldnt get around the barrel of the flashlight

Some brands open up wider than others

 

[SonOfEru]

Some brands open up wider than others

Yes, I expect I can find a larger one, and will look.

But back to the idea of turning the stove upside down, but instead of upside down, would it be safe to lay it on its back?

I figure I could probably use a coathanger or something like that, to reach around and behind it and nudge it a bit at a time until I can get a hand on it.

Would that be ok, lay it flat on its back?

 

[kennyp2339]

this belongs in the VC thread, someone was looking for pain and torcher over there.... but alas, get some gorilla tape and a stick, reverse the tape and make a loop, stick one end on a stick, poke the flashlight and pull it out.

 

[brenndatomu]

Would that be ok, lay it flat on its back?

I would think so...but I have zero familiarity with your stove so...

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I’m not familiar with your model but the parts diagram shows 2 screws or bolts holding the lower fire back on. If you can get the lower fire back off your flashlight will be right there. On my 2550 there is a gasket on the back of the fireback. I would assume yours does as well. @difiant3 could answer this correctly for you.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

You should also put this in the Vc Owen era thread. There are other guys there with your model

 

[SonOfEru]

OK, VC must be Vt Castings. There is a separate forum for VC? I looked at first and thought this would be the area. Can I move the whole thread over there or just start fresh?

 

[SonOfEru]

Looks like Classic Woodstove Forums is where to go. I'll just copy my opener and start fresh

 

[kennyp2339]

Looks like Classic Woodstove Forums is where to go. I'll just copy my opener and start fresh

No don't do that, I was joking about it last night because there is a 2018-2019 VC thread, you have a legit problem with the flashlight behind the refactory, how about a piece of fishing line with some tape on the end, fish it down use a small stick to push the tape onto it and fish it out... prob the biggest catch of the season!!

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Sorry my last post was jiberish. There is the 2018/19 VC owners thread like Kenny p said. However traffic is low there these days.

 

[Diabel]

Try a shopvac. I use one to clean that area. I have attached a smaller diameter hose to the vacuum hose to easily clean that area. It has tons of suction. It might just work.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Paging @defiant3

 

[SonOfEru]

Try a shopvac. I use one to clean that area. I have attached a smaller diameter hose to the vacuum hose to easily clean that area. It has tons of suction. It might just work.

So that is considered safe? That was one of my questions. I worried about dinging the refractory stuff

And did you mean to try it as a trick to remove the flashlight, or just to clean the area so I can get something sticky to stick?

 

[SonOfEru]

Sorry my last post was jiberish. There is the 2018/19 VC owners thread like Kenny p said. However traffic is low there these days.

There is a forum called

Vermont Castings & CDW Dutchwest older Models
This forum is for discussions and information regarding the Vermont Castings stoves models from 1976 to 1992 or so- These include the original Defiant, Vigilant, Resolute, Intrepid, Fireplace Insert as well as earlier Encores, Winterwarms, etc.

Granted, this is a mechanical question - how do you fish something out of a tight place. So anyone with a bright idea could help.

But I also wonder if they might know best about my suggestion of tipping it on its back or upside down

 

[Diabel]

You

So that is considered safe? That was one of my questions. I worried about dinging the refractory stuff

You have to be a bit careful. How else would you clean that area? Your regular shopvac hose will not fit there, you have to attach a smaller diameter hose to it then try to suck it out.

 

[SonOfEru]

You


You have to be a bit careful. How else would you clean that area? Your regular shopvac hose will not fit there, you have to attach a smaller diameter hose to it then try to suck it out.

Yeah, what I need is a rubber hose about 3/4" in diameter. Gotta go to my workshop and turn over the piles of stuff I never throw away, just in case I might need something some day. I sure need something today

Thanks!

 

[Diabel]

Also, most auto parts stores will have these nifty flexible grabbing tools.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

There is a forum called

Vermont Castings & CDW Dutchwest older Models
This forum is for discussions and information regarding the Vermont Castings stoves models from 1976 to 1992 or so- These include the original Defiant, Vigilant, Resolute, Intrepid, Fireplace Insert as well as earlier Encores, Winterwarms, etc.

Granted, this is a mechanical question - how do you fish something out of a tight place. So anyone with a bright idea could help.

But I also wonder if they might know best about my suggestion of tipping it on its back or upside down

Check your alerts. I think Kenny p tagged you over in the VC thread

 

[SonOfEru]

Also, most auto parts stores will have these nifty flexible grabbing tools.

The only grabbers I have seen dont open up enough to get around the barrel of the flashlight.

All these good ideas, but with one little problem for each one

 

[RandyBoBandy]

There is a forum called

Vermont Castings & CDW Dutchwest older Models
This forum is for discussions and information regarding the Vermont Castings stoves models from 1976 to 1992 or so- These include the original Defiant, Vigilant, Resolute, Intrepid, Fireplace Insert as well as earlier Encores, Winterwarms, etc.

Granted, this is a mechanical question - how do you fish something out of a tight place. So anyone with a bright idea could help.

But I also wonder if they might know best about my suggestion of tipping it on its back or upside down

I believe someone has tipped their encore on its back to replace an upper fireback. I would be very carful not to break any legs. I also think tipping it upside down is a bad idea.