Can I use a 6" liner on a Buck model 91?

[Bmore]

Hey All,
Newbie here, I was given a Buck 91 in good shape from my uncle. It's a huge old cat that has a 8" flue. My chimney would be very difficult and costly to install a 8" liner. Could get a 6" down there. I know this is not proper, or up to code but would it work? I'd hate to spend too much time and money on a 8" line to find out the old Buck wasn't worth it. If the 6" on the insert gets too smokey then at least I'm set up with a new liner to accommodate a new stove... Chimney is masonry, 25' from top to bottom of firebox. I've read a post once that said 8" flues could be reduced on taller chimneys. Has anyone tried this?

My Uncle ran this for nearly 20 years without a liner. Could I just use some 8" stove pipe and a block off plate. Seems like everyone says a stainless liner is a must but I don't want to break the bank on a old unproven free insert. Chimney was recently inspected and all flue tiles are fine.

Anyone out there with an older Model 91? Any good?

Thanks for any advice

 

[aansorge]

Nice big stove but given your circumstance I would sell it on Craigslist and use the money to buy a different setup.

Here is a used Englander 30 that would work very well... $200

(broken link removed to http://baltimore.craigslist.org/hsh/4511406232.html)

 

[HotCoals]

Could I just use some 8" stove pipe and a block off plate.

That is called a slammer install and I doubt anybody here is going to say go for it.
Install the 6" liner and give it a shot hooked to the Buck. If it does not work out you can always get a diff stove but a liner in a masonry chimney/fireplace is highly recommended .

 

[Jags]

Slammer are no longer a recommended install method. Too many options for things to go wrong.
At 25 feet, you may get away with a 6". Pretty tough to answer definitively.

 

[BrotherBart]

Give the six inch liner a shot. You don't want it installed without a liner. At the least you will have to lug that tank out of the fireplace every time you clean the chimney. But with a liner you just take out the cat and brush the crap down into the firebox. Line it. Your back, legs and shoulders will thank you for it.

 

[Bmore]

Nice big stove but given your circumstance I would sell it on Craigslist and use the money to buy a different setup.

Here is a used Englander 30 that would work very well... $200

(broken link removed to http://baltimore.craigslist.org/hsh/4511406232.html)

Thanks! I am contacting the seller...

 

[Bmore]

Give the six inch liner a shot. You don't want it installed without a liner. At the least you will have to lug that tank out of the fireplace every time you clean the chimney. But with a liner you just take out the cat and brush the crap down into the firebox. Line it. Your back, legs and shoulders will thank you for it.

Thanks, think I may give it a shot.

 

[Woody Stover]

The Buck is a quality stove ($3000 new,) will throw big heat and is more efficient than the 30; I would try that first if you have a lot of square footage to heat. What are the inside dimensions of your clay liner? Is it a pretty straight shot? I wouldn't worry too much about a little more up-front expense. The Buck will pay off in the long run with less wood used. The 91 I have at my MIL's draws great at 20' on an 8" liner (to the top of the stove.) I'm thinking it may work fine at 23' with 6". If it's an exterior masonry chimney, insulation should increase the draw of the liner.

 

[Bmore]

The Buck is a quality stove ($3000 new,) will throw big heat and is more efficient than the 30; I would try that first if you have a lot of square footage to heat. What are the inside dimensions of your clay liner? Is it a pretty straight shot? I wouldn't worry too much about a little more up-front expense. The Buck will pay off in the long run with less wood used. The 91 I have at my MIL's draws great at 20' on an 8" liner (to the top of the stove.) I'm thinking it may work fine at 23' with 6". If it's an exterior masonry chimney, insulation should increase the draw of the liner.

The 30 on Craig's list was sold. Still liking my chances with this Buck. My liner is 13x13, exterior masonry chimney is a straight shot. Size issue is at the damper assembly shelf. With the damper fully removed a 6" should fit but no 8" (without removing the firebricks). Home is about 3000' with fireplace right in the middle. Hoping the Bucks big heat could pretty much heat both the main and upper floors... Any suggestions of where to buy a liner for less online? Thanks

 

[begreen]

Knocking out an additional 2-4" clearance area for the 8" liner from the smoke shelf should be ok and safe.

 

[Woody Stover]

liner is 13x13, exterior masonry chimney is a straight shot. Size issue is at the damper assembly shelf. With the damper fully removed a 6" should fit but no 8" (without removing the firebricks). Home is about 3000' with fireplace right in the middle. Hoping the Bucks big heat could pretty much heat both the main and upper floors... Any suggestions of where to buy a liner for less online? Thanks

Knocking out an additional 2-4" clearance area for the 8" liner from the smoke shelf should be ok and safe.

Agreed, you could go 6" or 8". 6" will fit most stoves if you switch in the future, but the big stoves are 8", and the Buck should serve you well for many years. Weather you can get away with a smaller (6") stove will depend on how open your layout is and how good the insulation and air-sealing are. 3000' total, up and down? The Buck should do pretty well there in most cases. At my MIL's, I have to upstairs closed off, so trying to heat about 1750' downstairs. Fighting a stove location on one end of the house, no wall insulation, 9.5' ceiling, etc. and the 91 does OK on two loads a day (I would be burning three smaller loads if I lived there.) We like the bedroom a bit cooler and use a comforter so we keep the temp in the living area higher than the bedroom. I go ahead and spend the extra money to get the heavy-duty liner (got HomeSaver Roundflex here.) With a straight shot, you can probably go with rigid liner which should save some money. We put Homesaver 304 rigid in at my BIL's...the angles worked out with 15* elbows. If you're reasonably handy, installing it yourself (with a little help getting the liner into the chimney) will save loads of money, obviously.
Now that I know how to ramp it up, I'm really lovin' the 91.

 

[Woody Stover]

If the Buck doesn't have one, I would get the cast flue collar.
(broken image removed)

 

[smokedragon]

I wouldn't do this with a new one, but in your case I would give it a try. If it doesn't work, sell it and buy something else (perhaps woodstock Ideal Steel or progress hybrid, Englander NC 30, or some other large stove with a 6" flue collar)..

 

[mellow]

This is an insert going into a masonry fireplace.

You could try running it on a 6" liner, you will have to get an 8" to 6" converter, I would stick with stainless steel for the whole process. If it was me I would bust out the tiles so I had room to run an insulated 6" liner, but you can always pull the liner out down the road and take that route if needed.

Just be prepared to get smoke out the door, especially during the shoulder seasons (fall,spring), that is where having an insulated liner really helps keep the liner warm and drafting good.

If the Buck is not up to par I would look at the Kuma Sequoia, but again with it being a large insert it requires an 8" liner. I think you would be better off trying to zone heat, maybe looking at a smaller insert that runs on a 6" liner and closing off unused rooms or heating them via another means.

 

[smokedragon]

I still say if the price is right, give it a try. If you can get it for a really good price from your uncle and it doesn't draft well, you could always sell it and then install something that takes a 6" liner.

If the Buck is not up to par I would look at the Kuma Sequoia, but again with it being a large insert it requires an 8" liner.

That is the problem with the big bucks, the sequoia, and the KING. If I could find one of those three used, I would have tried them on my 6" liner.

 

[Woody Stover]

I still say if the price is right, give it a try.

His uncle gave him the stove. Hard to beat that deal!

Thinking about it, one issue might be the ability of 6" vs. 8" to handle the heat generated by higher firing rates when ramping up the stove. Some might be tempted to have a roaring fire to try to get the stove up to temp faster. I don't fire it hard for long, just long enough to get the wood going good. After that, it seems to heat up just as fast by keeping decent flame going with the air as low as possible. If you pour the air to it, you get bigger flames but more heat is sucked up the flue and it doesn't seem to help raise stove temp much faster; That's where you can over-fire your liner. It just takes a while to get that much steel hot, no way around it.

 

[smokedragon]

If you pour the air to it, you get bigger flames but more heat is sucked up the flue and it doesn't seem to help raise stove temp much faster

I think that is all part of really playing with your air controls and learning how your stove burns best. That is why stove top, cat, and flue thermometers are all valuable tools.

But I do think you are right Woody, just enough air to let the fire grow/spread. Otherwise you have a fireplace.

 

[Bmore]

Could I re-use a 8" liner to connect to a newer stove designed for 6"? Any negatives on going with a flue larger than the specified size?

 

[bholler]

Yes there are lots of negatives. You might not have adequate draft you might get excessive buildup and many other reasons. It might work but it will never work as well as the right size liner

 

[Woody Stover]

Could I re-use a 8" liner to connect to a newer stove designed for 6"? Any negatives on going with a flue larger than the specified size?

Going from 6" to 8" might not sound like much, but it increases the area from 28 sq.in. to 50. I'm pretty sure the 6" would work OK at 20'+ assuming there are no negative pressure issues like a basement install in a two-story house, where the stack effect of the house takes away some draft...

 

[trx680]

I'm going to chime in with a few questions.
I just picked up a used Buck 91. I have a fireplace that I lined with an insulated 6" liner, which was a tight fit. I have a smaller Century that I've need using. Its my first woodstove.

I wanted something bigger, bigger firebox, longer run times....so the Buck 91

I've got a one story home with about 25 ft of chimney.

Will the 6" insulated liner be a problem for the 8" stove?

Other than a 6-8" adapter what else might I need?

Any other recommendations?

thanks!!

 

[bholler]

Will the 6" insulated liner be a problem for the 8" stove?

It may work but i wouldn't count on it that is a huge downsize,

 

[Woody Stover]

Does it seem like the chimney was pulling pretty strong in most cases with the other stove? You live in a climate with warmer outside temps so if draft is marginal with the 6" on the Buck, it may be problematic unless it's cold out. If you already bought the Buck, try it and see what happens. I think that all you need is the 8 to 6" reducer. I would get the cast flue collar I pictured above, as well...

 

[trx680]

Does it seem like the chimney was pulling pretty strong in most cases with the other stove? You live in a climate with warmer outside temps so if draft is marginal with the 6" on the Buck, it may be problematic unless it's cold out. If you already bought the Buck, try it and see what happens. I think that all you need is the 8 to 6" reducer. I would get the cast flue collar I pictured above, as well...

The cheaper and smaller Century was the first stove I ever had. It was using a 6" flue. I really dont know if the chimney was pulling strong or not, not sure how to tell the difference.
The Century was small and the wood didnt last long, or maybe I dont know what I'm doing. I have the used 91 so I'll find out in the winter if its going to work.


Worse case scenario, what problems will I have?

 

[bholler]

Worse case scenario, what problems will I have?

Slow starts smoke backing up Basically all the problems caused by inadequate draft. I dont know the buck very well but i know the regency 5100 the techs say you can overheat the stove and crack the top if you run undersized liners So damaging the stove can also be a possibility