Canadians Getting robbed

[Excell]

I have been reading this forum ,and see you are paying $225.00 for pellets that come from Canada . I can not find anything in Winnipeg for less than $300.00 per ton plus 12% tax . This doesn't make sense .Some one is stuffing money in there pockets . Not only that but the pellets that are made in Winnipeg turn my glass black and don't give as much heat . Winnipeg forest products ,not bad for heat but dirty . Prairie pellet co ,no heat and dirty . We also have very limited choice for buying them .
I may have to drive 60 miles to pick up some hardwoods ,made in US .I won't save much but at least I will be warm .

 

[jtakeman]

I think its called regional pricing(there are area's that are even lower than $225/ton) and there has to be competition to see price's decline. An all out boycott maybe?? If you all go back to oil or wood for a while?

2 years ago we saw prices of over $300/ton in New England with the fiber shortage looming and most weren't buying. Some went back to wood. Then the big oil bottom fell out. It seemed to put the prices back in check. We also saw a large number of used stoves hit the for sale section in the local papers. The supply was larger than the demand and knocked a big hole in the prices fast!

When I first stated burning pellets I though I was out of the price battle for fuel. But pellets are no different than oil, NG, Propane, and even cordwood. They fluctuate like any other fuel source! Supply, Demand and good old Inflation does effect them too!

 

[Excell]

In Winnipeg every one is $5.99 a bag . It doesn't matter what brand or where they come from. What I am trying to do now is find a good pallet
and get a deal 1 ton . I am trying Fire master right now and I think they are good . I will see what kind of deal I can get on Monday . I wish I could find some
lignetics as they were the best last winter . There doesn't seem to be any one else from Winnipeg on this forum . I know there are other pellet burners here
because the pellets keep disappearing at the store .

 

[Amaralluis]

Get out of the pellet business as soon as you can... they are no better than the oil crooks.
Pellets increased to what they are now when oil was at $1.50 and it didnt come down at all like the oil. Excuses, excuses just like the oil crooks to justify the high price.
Oil is starting to creep up again, guess what will happen with the pellet prices??

I installed a mini split heat pump that is working great and I hope it will be a more stable heating solution. Pellet usage will be minimal.
Its a shame too, pellet had everything going for it, local sources, very common materials, more local jobs, less transportation pollution/costs, etc but the good greedy feeling took over and ruined everything.

 

[Vinelife]

Plus in Canada everything is heavily regulated. And its not the same here. Since we are Capitalists we enjoy a cheaper rate.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I bet it's the exchange rate. $1.00 USD is worth something like $.99 Canadian. Wait yup, you're getting screwed. I wonder how much it would cost to buy by the truckload up there? It seems you could seriously undercut your competitors and steal the market.

Matt

 

[pete324rocket]

If there are no competitors,the price will remain high,like anything. Two years ago,there was a shortage and every crook who thought he could make a buck got in on buying ,hoarding and selling. Some crazy prices I saw were even in the 7 dollar range. Now there are enough new pellet producers here and more coming that the winners now are the brand who offers the most heat per buck. Prices are steady around the 5 dollar range,but a new producer could easily enter the game with a good product a buck cheaper and steal the show....unless of course there is collusion...I sure hope not. I know of only one brand thats crappy ,but even that one isn't all that bad considering.

 

[Vinelife]

Yeah, but there is no " real " free market there...

 

[fedtime]

What do you consider "one ton?" Some (like our friends to the south) say 1 ton is 2000 lbs (50 x 40lb bags). For guys as old as me, 1 ton is 2240 lbs (56x40lb bags). That may explain part of the difference.

I see the folks in the USA report prices per ton, but always figured they were referring to 2000lbs.

Having said all that, yes, we Canadians are getting robbed. I remember pellet prices in the $1.50 to 2.00 range, but, as has been said, fuel prices are a question of supply and demand. There is a pellet plant just outside of Halifax that exports their ENTIRE production to Europe. Even during the shortage years, that same company did not sell product to Canadians.

Don't think that it is just pellets - why does Irving gasoline cost more at the gates of the refinery in Saint John (there actually is a gas station at the gates) than it does at an Irving station in Boston or in Maine - and don't say taxes, because with those backed out the price is still lower in the US.

I've still not lit my two pellet stoves this year. At $6.00 per bag, oil is more economical for me. I hate using non-renewable resources, but the cost difference is just too great. When prices drop to $5.00 per bag or less (or oil goes up quite a bit and stays high), I'll be back in the pellet game.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

... I hate using non-renewable resources, but the cost difference is just too great. When prices drop to $5.00 per bag or less (or oil goes up quite a bit and stays high), I'll be back in the pellet game.

Hey oil is renewable as well, the time frame need is a bit longer that is all.

 

[Excell]

What do you consider "one ton?" Some (like our friends to the south) say 1 ton is 2000 lbs (50 x 40lb bags). For guys as old as me, 1 ton is 2240 lbs (56x40lb bags). That may explain part of the difference.

I see the folks in the USA report prices per ton, but always figured they were referring to 2000lbs.

Having said all that, yes, we Canadians are getting robbed. I remember pellet prices in the $1.50 to 2.00 range, but, as has been said, fuel prices are a question of supply and demand. There is a pellet plant just outside of Halifax that exports their ENTIRE production to Europe. Even during the shortage years, that same company did not sell product to Canadians.

Don't think that it is just pellets - why does Irving gasoline cost more at the gates of the refinery in Saint John (there actually is a gas station at the gates) than it does at an Irving station in Boston or in Maine - and don't say taxes, because with those backed out the price is still lower in the US.

I've still not lit my two pellet stoves this year. At $6.00 per bag, oil is more economical for me. I hate using non-renewable resources, but the cost difference is just too great. When prices drop to $5.00 per bag or less (or oil goes up quite a bit and stays high), I'll be back in the pellet game.

50 bags I think they call a ton in the pellet business. For me it is either pellets or electricity. I am just heating my garage so it is no big deal. i just don't like getting beat .I really hate paying for premium pellets that don't give heat. I don't think there is to much regulation on pellets . I don't think our polititions know to much about them yet .Once they get involved the prices will really go up .

 

[Corny]

I feel your pain, Excell. We have the same pellet pricing in our end of Ontario. As a result, we're burning corn again this year. We bought at $200 per metric tonne (2205 lb). It is very nice stuff with a bushel weight exceeding 60 lb.

 

[Umaxman]

Its the same here also ...$5.99 [$5.55 bulk ] a bag everwhere There is a local place not far from me that is making pellets , second year I think.....so I am going to pick up a few bags to try at $4.50 a bag. I am hoping that they are good.

 

[BrotherBart]

Hey oil is renewable as well, the time frame need is a bit longer that is all.

Yep. And neither that tree or that dinosaur you burn today is going to be replaced in your lifetime.

 

[Excell]

Its the same here also ...$5.99 [$5.55 bulk ] a bag everwhere There is a local place not far from me that is making pellets , second year I think.....so I am going to pick up a few bags to try at $4.50 a bag. I am hoping that they are good.

We live 1500 miles apart and the price is exactly the same .Its amazing how they do that .and it never goes down only up .

 

[nate379]

Seems like a good price to me. Pellets here are close to $9 a bag.

 

[Excell]

Seems like a good price to me. Pellets here are close to $9 a bag.

All I can say is wow!!

 

[rowerwet]

your higher price is tied to the price for fuel in all the stages of pellet making and transport, part of the reason pellet prices follow the price of oil, from the chainsaw/skidder that cuts the tree, trucks that move them, electricity costs for the mill that process the tree, plastic in the bags, to the trucks that move the tons to you, oil is still very involved. You can thank the higher taxes of Socialism for much of that, taxes on heat fuel is just the final kick in the teeth.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hey oil is renewable as well, the time frame need is a bit longer that is all.

Yep. And neither that tree or that dinosaur you burn today is going to be replaced in your lifetime.

As for the tree replacement if you aren't picky there are some very fast growing trees so in 70 years or so those trees are more than replaced.

 

[havermeyer]

I have been reading this forum ,and see you are paying $225.00 for pellets that come from Canada . I can not find anything in Winnipeg for less than $300.00 per ton plus 12% tax . This doesn't make sense .Some one is stuffing money in there pockets . Not only that but the pellets that are made in Winnipeg turn my glass black and don't give as much heat . Winnipeg forest products ,not bad for heat but dirty . Prairie pellet co ,no heat and dirty . We also have very limited choice for buying them .
I may have to drive 60 miles to pick up some hardwoods ,made in US .I won't save much but at least I will be warm .

The Government... not sure if its ours or yours... buts it's The Government.

 

[mascoma]

your higher price is tied to the price for fuel in all the stages of pellet making and transport, part of the reason pellet prices follow the price of oil, from the chainsaw/skidder that cuts the tree, trucks that move them, electricity costs for the mill that process the tree, plastic in the bags, to the trucks that move the tons to you, oil is still very involved. You can thank the higher taxes of Socialism for much of that, taxes on heat fuel is just the final kick in the teeth.

Other than taxes on final product, your argument is bunk if the same product is less when purchased in US, no?

 

[mascoma]

It's BTU's fault.

He's hauling those suckers to from BC to AZ to MA before turning the train back around to hit you in Winnepeg.

 

[Excell]

That is $5.99 plus tax 12%

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

... plus tax 12%

There's your first problem.

 

[Amaralluis]

I dont like the Canadian system but on the other hand at least you know beforehand how much the government is taking.
So the price of a 40LBS bag of pellets is usually $5.99 (or $5.49 when they are on "sale") + the tax.
So even before tax, $5.99*50=$299.00+tax or if on "sale" $5.49*50=$274.5 before tax... and south of the border prices are much lower than that *WITH* the taxes included...