I would like to install a wood stove next year in our new home. There is wall to wall carpet in our living room. My question is, do I have to remove the carpeting before installing the hearth pad, or can I just place the hearth pad on top of the carpeting? My common sense tells me that I have to remove the carpeting, but I would like a confirmation of that from someone who knows for sure.
carpet under hearth pad?
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packrraat said:
I had my hearth pad (prefab tile with a wood surround) and had my stove pro. installed. They simply plopped the pad on top of my carpet... What kind of hearth pad are you using, I mean removing the carpet is probably dependent on what are you going to do.. Lay down some bricks or use one of those prefabbed pads.
Jay
Gunner
New Member
This will depend on the stove brand/model and the hearthpad. Some woodstoves get very hot underneath and need a well insulated hearthpad between it and the wood floor underneath - no carpet here. Other stoves have bottom heatshields and ashpans and don't require anything substantial . Our Jotul has such heat shielding and can work with a simple, premade hearthpad.
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
UL listed pads are listed to a 1.2 r value. They can be installed on carpet. Some manufactures require more then 1.2 OR a listed pad, so in that case the pad works as well. As long as the manual states that a UL listed pad can be used then it can be put on carpet.
There is more than just reading the UL and r value of pads No stove is factored to be installed on carpet. Carpet has a different flash point lower than wood.
The ul listing is factored to be installed on a wood floor. Now if the hearth pad has been tested and certified for a proper protection over carpet and meets the r-value thermal resistnce from the stove manufacturer I would allow it to be installed over carpet, So far I have not seen one that list for installation over carpet. Maybe on pellet stoves ,but I have not seen any for wood stoves. The uL listing is not the only word it has to have the proper thermal conductivity for the stove and proper protection to the surface it covers Most are spect to be installed over wood
Jay before I passed you installation, I would be reading the specs on that hearth pad. I don't care what pro slapped it down. He probably never read the pad's listing either.
Boy to people have Blind Faith?
The ul listing is factored to be installed on a wood floor. Now if the hearth pad has been tested and certified for a proper protection over carpet and meets the r-value thermal resistnce from the stove manufacturer I would allow it to be installed over carpet, So far I have not seen one that list for installation over carpet. Maybe on pellet stoves ,but I have not seen any for wood stoves. The uL listing is not the only word it has to have the proper thermal conductivity for the stove and proper protection to the surface it covers Most are spect to be installed over wood
Jay before I passed you installation, I would be reading the specs on that hearth pad. I don't care what pro slapped it down. He probably never read the pad's listing either.
Boy to people have Blind Faith?
The Jøtul F 400 requires one of the following three forms of
hearth protection:
1. Any UL, ULC or WH listed hearth board. (No bottom heat shield
required).
2. Any noncombustible material that has a minimum
R- value of 2.0. (No bottom heat shield required.)
3. Any noncombustible material with the use of the stove’s
bottom heat shield.
Requirement #3 seems to say if the bottom heat shielding is installed that the main issue is to protect the area under and around the stove from falling coals. Line 3 sounds to me like one could just put down some sheet metal on the floor. Not that I am recommending this, but am I reading this wrong?
hearth protection:
1. Any UL, ULC or WH listed hearth board. (No bottom heat shield
required).
2. Any noncombustible material that has a minimum
R- value of 2.0. (No bottom heat shield required.)
3. Any noncombustible material with the use of the stove’s
bottom heat shield.
Requirement #3 seems to say if the bottom heat shielding is installed that the main issue is to protect the area under and around the stove from falling coals. Line 3 sounds to me like one could just put down some sheet metal on the floor. Not that I am recommending this, but am I reading this wrong?
BeGreeen I'm not 100% correct .My intent was to warn to get all the specs and facts and not to assume becaues some thing is listed ul it is ok.
I have a ul listed lamp cord but is is not for use with my ark welder
I have a ul listed lamp cord but is is not for use with my ark welder
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
UL listed pads are ok on carpet or on hardwood. As long as the size is correct, the r value will cover the rest. You can call Yoder Hearth Classics, a manufacture of these pads to confirm.
http://www.hearthclassics.com/hearth_pads/hearth_pad_where_buy.html
B green, you are reading that correct, with the bottem heat shield all it requires is a non combustable surface, no r value requirements.
Here is the text from the hearthstone homestead on 4" legs, its one of the higest r value stoves that i know of.
*A floor protector with a r value of 6.6 or more...
And for the 6" leg model...
* a floor protector with a r value of 2.5 OR a hearthpad listed to UL1618 standards.
I cant say all, but the hearthpads i carry are tested to UL1618, and they dont care whats below the hearthpad weither its hardwood, carpet, or vinyl.
http://www.hearthclassics.com/hearth_pads/hearth_pad_where_buy.html
B green, you are reading that correct, with the bottem heat shield all it requires is a non combustable surface, no r value requirements.
Here is the text from the hearthstone homestead on 4" legs, its one of the higest r value stoves that i know of.
*A floor protector with a r value of 6.6 or more...
And for the 6" leg model...
* a floor protector with a r value of 2.5 OR a hearthpad listed to UL1618 standards.
I cant say all, but the hearthpads i carry are tested to UL1618, and they dont care whats below the hearthpad weither its hardwood, carpet, or vinyl.
OK, I got nervous for a moment. We have a Yoder under the stove. It's on the wood subfloor. Would this also be ok hearth protection for the Isle Royale?
Wow, R6.6, that's substantial.
Wow, R6.6, that's substantial.
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
yes. it should be fine. I would have to look at the manual, but the isle royal doesnt have any wacky hearth requirements.
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
here is the other pad well sell
its listed to the same UL requirements. Says so ont this page anyway...
http://hargrovegaslogs.com/pad.htm
its listed to the same UL requirements. Says so ont this page anyway...
http://hargrovegaslogs.com/pad.htm
colsmith
Feeling the Heat
Although technically it may be fine to have carpet under the hearth pad, I can't imagine WHY you would want carpet near your wood stove. There is always the possibility of a burning ember popping out at some point, in fact it is almost inevitable. I imagine that would lead to small burn marks in front of the hearth and stove, which wouldn't look very nice. Maybe it takes some time for modern carpet to burn, but I would guess otherwise, it is usually nylon isn't it? Do you know what your carpet is made out of or if it is fire retardant?
Also, since you will be carrying wood to put into the stove and storing some nearby, that makes for messy little hunkers of wood, bark, sawdust, and so forth which fall off the firewood being carried and loaded. We sweep the floor right around our hearth every day, sometimes several times, depending how much wood we carry in and/or put into the stove. Wood is messy. We pulled all the carpet out of our living room before installing our stove, and we are glad we did. Consider what you track in carrying wood in from outside in the winter, or wherever you keep most of it. You sure aren't going to take your shoes off first while carrying an armload of wood. Just seems like asking for a dirty carpet to me. (I hate cleaning.)
Also, since you will be carrying wood to put into the stove and storing some nearby, that makes for messy little hunkers of wood, bark, sawdust, and so forth which fall off the firewood being carried and loaded. We sweep the floor right around our hearth every day, sometimes several times, depending how much wood we carry in and/or put into the stove. Wood is messy. We pulled all the carpet out of our living room before installing our stove, and we are glad we did. Consider what you track in carrying wood in from outside in the winter, or wherever you keep most of it. You sure aren't going to take your shoes off first while carrying an armload of wood. Just seems like asking for a dirty carpet to me. (I hate cleaning.)
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
because some people have wall to wall carpet and they want to burn wood.
It may not be desirable to have a woodstove in a carpted room, i agree with that, but its leagle, which answers the posters question.
It may not be desirable to have a woodstove in a carpted room, i agree with that, but its leagle, which answers the posters question.
Roospike
New Member
Some Like It Hot said:
"Rubbermaid container"
Bring wood into the house with a rubbermaid container and store it in a rubber maid container , take your wood from where you store it in a rubbermaid container , sit it down in front of your stove ........load the stove and take the container back to where you store the wood.
NO MESS ! Why do some people make it so hard on them selves. ;-)
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I have two of Roo's containers that I fill and empty each day. Without them I would have a huger mess.
My hearth is more than the minimum legal dimensions and then there is carpet for the rest of the room. I believe the point in question is construction of the non-permanent gravity restrained stone or tile hearthpad above a layer of carpet and pad. In such a way that NO ash or ember will fall on this trapped carpet. The carpet is concealed and compressed below the stove and pad. Super easy to drop a commercialy made hearth pad on the ground, set a stove on it, plumb a chimney, and light up. If your clearances are met then you don't even need to do anything to the walls. Sure, it would be nice to build the floor, ceiling, and walls of concrete with a floor drain to allow you to pressure wash the room but different folks with different budgets like different things.
My rubbermaids are 3/4 empty right now.
My hearth is more than the minimum legal dimensions and then there is carpet for the rest of the room. I believe the point in question is construction of the non-permanent gravity restrained stone or tile hearthpad above a layer of carpet and pad. In such a way that NO ash or ember will fall on this trapped carpet. The carpet is concealed and compressed below the stove and pad. Super easy to drop a commercialy made hearth pad on the ground, set a stove on it, plumb a chimney, and light up. If your clearances are met then you don't even need to do anything to the walls. Sure, it would be nice to build the floor, ceiling, and walls of concrete with a floor drain to allow you to pressure wash the room but different folks with different budgets like different things.
My rubbermaids are 3/4 empty right now.
MrGriz
New Member
Not to get too far off the original post, but...
The vast majority of all carpet installed today is made of three fibers, nylon, olefin and polyester. The Department of Commerce requires carpet to pass a flammability test called the "pill test", which simulates the effects of a lit cigarette, match or fireplace ember. If the test creates a burned or charred area of more than three inches in any direction from the center of the point of ignition, the carpet fails. In short, most carpet should not burst into flames when subjected to the occasional ember.
That being said, the occasional ember will definitely create an unsightly burned or melted spot in the carpet. It is also definitely easier to clean a hard surface, such as tile when it comes to ash, embers and the trackings of wood handling (no matter how careful we may be).
Back to the original question. Even though carpet is fairly fire retardant and codes appear to allow it, I would not just drop a hearth pad over the rug. IMO, I would cut back a section of carpet and transition to tile or stone.
Just my .02
The vast majority of all carpet installed today is made of three fibers, nylon, olefin and polyester. The Department of Commerce requires carpet to pass a flammability test called the "pill test", which simulates the effects of a lit cigarette, match or fireplace ember. If the test creates a burned or charred area of more than three inches in any direction from the center of the point of ignition, the carpet fails. In short, most carpet should not burst into flames when subjected to the occasional ember.
That being said, the occasional ember will definitely create an unsightly burned or melted spot in the carpet. It is also definitely easier to clean a hard surface, such as tile when it comes to ash, embers and the trackings of wood handling (no matter how careful we may be).
Back to the original question. Even though carpet is fairly fire retardant and codes appear to allow it, I would not just drop a hearth pad over the rug. IMO, I would cut back a section of carpet and transition to tile or stone.
Just my .02
Roospike
New Member
I guess i dont understand why one would want / need to keep the carpet under a stove hearth pad. Your really not going to be saving the carpet and pad , i wouldnt think 500-600 + lbs is doing the carpet and pad any good. Its it a lack of time, budget, dont want to deal with it thing ?
I could maybe understand a rental home kinda of deal but for someones own home ?
I could maybe understand a rental home kinda of deal but for someones own home ?
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I am not a carpet guy. The stove installer is not a carpet guy. A carpet guy is another sub and is due his fee for coming to your home to fix the cut you made. When you cut the carpet to fit the hearth pad then you need to put in those tack strips and then use the funny knee tool to hook it properly without causing the carpet to bunch or tear. This is beyond the skill level of most people who just want to run their new stove. The carpet makes a clean edge where it ducks under the hearth pad.
It makes no difference if the carpet is destroyed by the hearth pad. It is just quicker, easier, cleaner to drop the pad and go. I don't think the burnability of carpet has anything to do with it since the issue is whether or not to place carpet beneath the hearth pad protection.
So I would say yes.... "Its it a lack of time, budget, dont want to deal with it thing"
It makes no difference if the carpet is destroyed by the hearth pad. It is just quicker, easier, cleaner to drop the pad and go. I don't think the burnability of carpet has anything to do with it since the issue is whether or not to place carpet beneath the hearth pad protection.
So I would say yes.... "Its it a lack of time, budget, dont want to deal with it thing"
I am a " carpet guy " ( not pro anymore ) but it should only take a pro less then an hour to re lay the carpet to the hearth pad. Just pull the carpet back beyond where the hearth pad will sit and have him in after its all set. If he trims it right you might even be able to seam it back in should you remove the stove. Although it probably wont match to good anymore.
Thanks for all of the interesting and informative posts - what a wealth of info. Yes, its partly I just don't want to deal with it (i.e., removing the carpet - why bother removing it if you don't have to) Secondly, yes I would have preferred a wood, tile or stone floor, but we didn't design the house; by the time we decided to buy, the flooring was already a decided factor. Thirdly, I thought about pulling up the carpet and installing a wood floor, but we're not as flush with cash as we would like so ripping up a perfectly good carpet is not an option yet; we'll be doing good to afford the stove I want. Anyway, I think I'll have to get a carpet pro in to remove the carpet from the hearth area and re-install it after I get the hearth in. Common sense tells me thats the way to go, then that'll be one less thing to worry about. Thanks for the info.
Corie
Minister of Fire
I think that is the best decision and it was the one I was going to put forward. Good luck on the installation!
colsmith
Feeling the Heat
Packrraat, If you are planning to leave carpet in the rest of the room, no reason to pay a professional to take it out from under where the hearth will be. Just plunk the hearth on top of it. I was just saying that I would lose the carpet in that room, or at least the parts of it near the stove. If at some later date you decide to take out the carpet in the rest of the room, you won't probably want/be able to do anything to the floor beneath the hearth and extremely heavy stove, so that won't matter much, just make the transition area a little trickier.
I am admittedly anti-carpet, hubby has lots of allergies and carpet is not a friend to allergies. We have lots of parties, too, and that tends to lead to spilled drinks, which also make carpet suffer, as well as all the wood traffic. We have a raised up hearth, and we store about 3 days of wood underneath in the slots between the support legs, so the Rubbermaid idea wouldn't work for us. You can see what we did with our hearth and Phoenix stove in the Perfect Picture forum. We had wall to wall carpet, rolled it all up and gave it away on freecycle (several people wanted it!) and put down vinyl tile flooring. That was 1/2 to 1/3 the price of actual wood, and very easy to clean, and if we ever burn a square, we just plunk another one down. Ceramic tiles are actually pretty cheap on sale, too. Just a thought.
I am admittedly anti-carpet, hubby has lots of allergies and carpet is not a friend to allergies. We have lots of parties, too, and that tends to lead to spilled drinks, which also make carpet suffer, as well as all the wood traffic. We have a raised up hearth, and we store about 3 days of wood underneath in the slots between the support legs, so the Rubbermaid idea wouldn't work for us. You can see what we did with our hearth and Phoenix stove in the Perfect Picture forum. We had wall to wall carpet, rolled it all up and gave it away on freecycle (several people wanted it!) and put down vinyl tile flooring. That was 1/2 to 1/3 the price of actual wood, and very easy to clean, and if we ever burn a square, we just plunk another one down. Ceramic tiles are actually pretty cheap on sale, too. Just a thought.
kevinmoelk
New Member
Just depends on your skill level. Personally I'd remove the carpet prior to installing the stove. A utility knife, some careful cutting, a few tack strips, and rental of the kicker thingy. Not a big deal imo.
Also, what happens if there happens to be a spill near the stove when carpet is under the hearth pad? That spill will wick into the carpet underneath the hearth pad and cause mold. Yuck.
I frankly hate wall to wall. Much prefer hardwoods, then area rugs. If you spill on an area rug you can clean under it, and if it's a real bad spill just send the rug out to be cleaned. My 2 cents.
-Kevin
Also, what happens if there happens to be a spill near the stove when carpet is under the hearth pad? That spill will wick into the carpet underneath the hearth pad and cause mold. Yuck.
I frankly hate wall to wall. Much prefer hardwoods, then area rugs. If you spill on an area rug you can clean under it, and if it's a real bad spill just send the rug out to be cleaned. My 2 cents.
-Kevin
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