Cat price - point of diminishing returns?

[begreen]

i heat full time in a rather cold area without a cat stove, the only time the oil boiler is used is if we go away for a few days

The majority of folks heating solely with wood do it with non-cats. Viability is relative to the size of the house, insulation, outside temps and the duration one is away from the house. Not dissing cat stoves, for many having a cat stove could be an improvement, but non-cat have been heating houses for a long time.

 

[John Kuhn]

The majority of folks heating solely with wood do it with non-cats. Viability is relative to the size of the house, insulation, outside temps and the duration one is away from the house. Not dissing cat stoves, for many having a cat stove could be an improvement, but non-cat have been heating houses for a long time.

Back to the original poster's question, not so much that a non-cat stove is bad or not workable, but what cat price premium justifies the cat advantage. Secondly, thinking about my new hybrid stove, I guess if a replacement cat got to be unreasonably expensive, I'd consider keeping the stove and running it with the cat out, losing some efficiency and chimney cleanliness in the process, but lots of other things to like about the stove that wouldn't make me want to get a different one.

 

[bholler]

Back to the original poster's question, not so much that a non-cat stove is bad or not workable, but what cat price premium justifies the cat advantage. Secondly, thinking about my new hybrid stove, I guess if a replacement cat got to be unreasonably expensive, I'd consider keeping the stove and running it with the cat out, losing some efficiency and chimney cleanliness in the process, but lots of other things to like about the stove that wouldn't make me want to get a different one.

Just because it is a hybrid does not mean it will run even close to right with no cat

 

[John Kuhn]

Just because it is a hybrid does not mean it will run even close to right with no cat

You may be right, and I can't speak from actual experience, just speculation on my part, but it would be something I would try if the situation with cat prices became totally ridiculous (which I don't see ever happening).

 

[bholler]

You may be right, and I can't speak from actual experience, just speculation on my part, but it would be something I would try if the situation with cat prices became totally ridiculous (which I don't see ever happening).

I dont see it happening either. But without the cat it will pretty much be just a smoke dragon

 

[John Kuhn]

I don't think it would be a classic smoke dragon with no cat. If you look at the diagram of how a Progress Hybrid works, the secondary air is warmed by the first pass out smoke, and after the cat, the hot exhaust routes mainly to the top of the stove and out the flue. So the missing cat would certainly lower the stove top temp, but the secondary burn should take place as normal, and thus not a smoke dragon, rather more like a "tube stove".
But don't ask me to test it on mine, I like it just fine the way it is!

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

I really dont know why you guys think tube stives take lots of messing with. I load mine 3 times a day and after loading i touch it twice in a span of 10 to 15 mins. Then i am done for 8 to 10 hours.

Can you please te

I really dont know why you guys think tube stives take lots of messing with. I load mine 3 times a day and after loading i touch it twice in a span of 10 to 15 mins. Then i am done for 8 to 10 hours.

can you please tell me about your tube stove? Thanks

 

[bholler]

Can you please te

can you please tell me about your tube stove? Thanks

What do u want to know

 

[bholler]

I don't think it would be a classic smoke dragon with no cat. If you look at the diagram of how a Progress Hybrid works, the secondary air is warmed by the first pass out smoke, and after the cat, the hot exhaust routes mainly to the top of the stove and out the flue. So the missing cat would certainly lower the stove top temp, but the secondary burn should take place as normal, and thus not a smoke dragon, rather more like a "tube stove".
But don't ask me to test it on mine, I like it just fine the way it is!

Yes a little secondary will happen. But very little. It will only be slightly better than an old stove eith a baffle

 

[begreen]

The Progress at higher burn rates has a pretty nice secondary combustion.

 

[Poindexter]

My personal data was confounded by a daughter with two laundry baskets full of hair products moving out the summer I switched from non cat to cat stove, but I find '30% reduction in wood consumption' very very believable. Thats 2-3 cords every year for me, 20 to 30 cords per decade, one year of free heat every five years... I should buy some spare combustors before the price goes up.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

What do u want to know

Maid and model. Sq ft heating, climate. I am looking to upgrade and I saw your post so I was just curious about your stove. Thanks

 

[sutphenj]

My personal data was confounded by a daughter with two laundry baskets full of hair products moving out the summer I switched from non cat to cat stove, but I find '30% reduction in wood consumption' very very believable. Thats 2-3 cords every year for me, 20 to 30 cords per decade, one year of free heat every five years... I should buy some spare combustors before the price goes up.

If it were me and I ran a cat stove for full time heat i wouldn't be without at least 2 spares.

That said how many spares do y'all keep on hand??

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

My personal data was confounded by a daughter with two laundry baskets full of hair products moving out the summer I switched from non cat to cat stove, but I find '30% reduction in wood consumption' very very believable. Thats 2-3 cords every year for me, 20 to 30 cords per decade, one year of free heat every five years... I should buy some spare combustors before the price goes up.

Why do you feel cat prices will continue to rise? EPA 2020 regs? Wouldn't that create more demand for them?

 

[sutphenj]

Why do you feel cat prices will continue to rise? EPA 2020 regs? Wouldn't that create more demand for them?

I think he is being a little coy by saying he has saved so much would a price increase would not matter much....maybe I'm wrong on that however.

 

[bholler]

Maid and model. Sq ft heating, climate. I am looking to upgrade and I saw your post so I was just curious about your stove. Thanks

Regency 3100 heating a ranch that is 1100 squ ft per floor from a finished basement. In central pa

 

[Nigel459]

The Progress at higher burn rates has a pretty nice secondary combustion.

Yes, but the cat is certainly helping to sustain the secondaries with the high temps in there, no?

I've been genuinely curious about that one, i.e. whether or not it is "necessary" to use the cat in the hybrids. Do you or anyone think/know the secondaries would perform similarly in the hybrid stoves without the cat?

 

[John Kuhn]

Yes, but the cat is certainly helping to sustain the secondaries with the high temps in there, no?

I've been genuinely curious about that one, i.e. whether or not it is "necessary" to use the cat in the hybrids. Do you or anyone think/know the secondaries would perform similarly in the hybrid stoves without the cat?

My opinion (no proof) is that it wouldn't be a big difference on the secondaries, because the post cat flue gases do not go near the secondary air. Diagram below is not quite right because the bypass is shown open (up) and the gas flow as it would during flow with the bypass closed.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Come on you guys there is no way you can say you would never switch. I seriously doubt cat prices will ever get to a point that with decent cat life it would cost to much for most people. But there has to be a point where you would say it isnt worth it. I think rearscreens price of 100 a year is probably about where most would honestly draw the line.

I suppose if my answer was more in line with the actual question and not a biased preference I would say if I was replacing cats every year I would probably consider switching. My house is very similar to yours, however, my stove is in my living room. Heating 24/7 with a tube stove I feel would heat us out of the house.

 

[bholler]

I suppose if my answer was more in line with the actual question and not a biased preference I would say if I was replacing cats every year I would probably consider switching. My house is very similar to yours, however, my stove is in my living room. Heating 24/7 with a tube stove I feel would heat us out of the house.

It would if it and the wood loads were oversized.

 

[bholler]

My opinion (no proof) is that it wouldn't be a big difference on the secondaries, because the post cat flue gases do not go near the secondary air. Diagram below is not quite right because the bypass is shown open (up) and the gas flow as it would during flow with the bypass closed.

View attachment 223747

I am sure there would be some effect but i dont think allot. But without the cat there would be allot of unburnt smoke left and no hot cat putting off heat

 

[John Kuhn]

I am sure there would be some effect but i dont think allot. But without the cat there would be allot of unburnt smoke left and no hot cat putting off heat

Agreed!

 

[RandyBoBandy]

It would if it and the wood loads were oversized.

I’ve been kicking around the idea of a basement install. My garage is under my living room and leads right into the basement. I would obviously have to insulate first but I’m wondering if the whole house might heat “equally”. Instead of the living room 80 and the bedrooms 65-67

 

[John Kuhn]

Our house is two story 1200 sq ft each floor. 4 bedrooms and 2 baths upstairs. The stove is in the living room downstairs, and there is a centrally located stairway in the house which does an excellent job heating the upstairs (almost too well, we have to close the bedroom doors at night). Living room is always the warmest part of the house, opposite corner of first floor is coolest. But overall, the stove easily heats our whole (well insulated) house satisfactorily. Stove only runs 24/7 in the very coldest (below zero and cloudy) weather.

 

[begreen]

Yes, but the cat is certainly helping to sustain the secondaries with the high temps in there, no?

I've been genuinely curious about that one, i.e. whether or not it is "necessary" to use the cat in the hybrids. Do you or anyone think/know the secondaries would perform similarly in the hybrid stoves without the cat?

That's a good question to ask Woodstock directly. Going by the body text on Woodstock's site, they implied that the cat does the heavy lifting when the air is turned way down, but when the air is opened more and the firebox is hotter that secondary combustion is prominent. The video was offered as an illustration. Wonder if they could provide information on testing the stove without the cat?