cat vs non-cat

[Flatbedford]

New guy here from lower NY. I am seriously considering an upgrade for my stove. We bought the house with a Franklin style stove already there. It makes tons of heat, but only for about 2 hours. With the tax credit and climbing energy costs it seems now is the time. I like the soapstone stoves for appearance and because of what I have read about heat output. I am leaning toward a Woodstock probably Fireveiw. I have talked on the phone with the Woodstock people and read about them here, they seem to be a great product. Yesterday I went to my local Stove guy to see what he had. He showed me Hearthstone stoves. The Homestead looks like it would be good for me. He told me that there was no advantage to a cat stove over non-cat except cleaner burning, and he also told me that the cat required way too much maintenance. That kinda goes against what I have read here. All other things being equal, will a Woodstock cat stove perform better than a Hearthstone non-cat? Or is this guy simply promoting what he sells? My wife prefers the look of the Hearthstone. What are you all's thoughts on this?

 

[Todd]

The local stove guy is going to be bias towards the stove he sells, he has to, to make a living. I've burned both the Homestead and Fireview and can tell you from experience the Fireview gives a longer burn and more heat on similar sized loads, and the cat maintenance and operation is a breeze. Cat stoves still get a bad rep from the old days of retro fits. If you burn them properly with dry wood, you will love the long even burns they will provide. Woodstock is a quality driven company and will bend over backwards to help you. I've been on this forum for many years and have yet to hear anyone not happy with their Woodstock.

 

[Flatbedford]

I don't fault the guy for trying to make a living, I just want some more input from people who use the stoves. Thanks. With the current year and sale and the tax credit, the woodstock is a great deal. The no sales tax in New Hampshire doesn't hurt either. Only problem is my wife likes the look of the Hearthstone Homestead. I wish we could see a the Woodstock stoves without the 4 hour drive each way.

 

[Bobbin]

A catalytic combustor is no big deal, at all. If you make a commitment to burn good fuel and not throw all manner of junk into your stove it will give you no trouble. As pointed out, the use of nice dry fuel ensures a long even burn. We clean the ash out of the combustor every 30-45 days in peak season and often there is really nothing to clean out. These stoves burn very cleanly, the guys who sweeps our chimney is often amazed by the lack of crud in the flue and we have skipped a year every so often with no deleterious effect.

In the nearly 18 yrs. we've owned our Fireview we have replaced the combustor 3 times. We're on the third combustor now and it's probably about 1/2 way through its life, I can't remember if it was replaced 2 or 3 yrs. ago. It takes maybe 5 minutes to do it.

I think people have a bias against cats. because "it's one more thing you have to think about", but any reputed "maintenance issues" are mostly urban legend. And my own experience with the Fireview is that it's a dream to operate and is a beautifully constructed, nicely engineered, quality household appliance that has delighted us for years and will continue to do so well into the future.

From a personal point of view I prefer the lines of the Classic and that's what I bought to warm my work studio. I don't think the Hearthstones hold a candle to the graceful, classically inspired lines of the Woodstocks.

 

[Redburn]

When I took out my encore to replace the fireback I found a hearthstone 2 for a good price and said I can get my money back for it when I fix my Encore the hearthstone was was a good stove but the performance was on where near my Encore with a cat burn time was not there and I burnt double the wood . I like Cleaning it in the summer and knowing how everything works.I tell people once you go cat u won't go back but thats just my opinion . Good luck picking a stove they are both are good from what I have read hear . I did get my money back for the hearthstone 2 and I don't really miss it.

 

[Mesquite]

I don't fault the guy for trying to make a living, I just want some more input from people who use the stoves. Thanks. With the current year and sale and the tax credit, the woodstock is a great deal. The no sales tax in New Hampshire doesn't hurt either. Only problem is my wife likes the look of the Hearthstone Homestead. I wish we could see a the Woodstock stoves without the 4 hour drive each way.

I looked at a Hearthstone locally prior to buying my Fireview for my house on the ranch. I liked the looks of it. However, something kept telling me to go with the Fireview so I did, sight unseen. I am totally 100% pleased with the purchase. I respectfully disagree with what your dealer said about the cat being more work. Hell, this thing is a piece of cake. Before the end of the month, I am buying another Fireview for my house in town.

 

[rickw]

I'm sure that poorly designed cat stoves can be a pain to use. The Woodstock is very well designed, burns very long and clean. I cleaned out the combustor once (takes like 5 minutes or less), there was no need anyway. Am using about 60% of the wood that I did with the old non-cat stove. Burns so long that you have plan to let it go out. The only reason I would not recommend the stove is if you need lots of heat, like 2000+ sf and poorly insulated in a cold climate. If your heat loads are moderate then it will work fine. If you don't have wood drying already, get it.

 

[trafick]

I have a non-cat stove and like was said before, the maintenence on all stoves is about the same. Every year I clean it and replace any broken firebrick I may find. This year I will replace the baffle support because of warppage.

The one plus I like about my stove is that I can put anything in it. Sometimes I have less than optimal wood, wood with nails (I heard galvanized nails can ruin a combustor), and such. Sometimes when I have good wood I wish I had a cat to get the longer burn times.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I don't fault the guy for trying to make a living, I just want some more input from people who use the stoves. Thanks. With the current year and sale and the tax credit, the woodstock is a great deal. The no sales tax in New Hampshire doesn't hurt either. Only problem is my wife likes the look of the Hearthstone Homestead. I wish we could see a the Woodstock stoves without the 4 hour drive each way.

Hey Steve, welcome to the forum.

Don't feel bad about the wife liking the looks of the Hearthstone. We too looked at them and almost bought one and they are a beautiful stove. However, we're not a bit sorry we bought the Woodstock stove as it has done everything we'd hoped and then some.

Tell the wife that she can pretty much choose the color of the Fireview. Look at several color combinations.

For comparison, do realize that the Hearthstone stoves do not want you to go over 600 degrees or it is overfiring. That means you would be burning the stove mostly around 500-550 degrees tops. Add 100 degrees for the Woodstock and that 100 degrees will make a huge difference when the temperature outside is zero degrees or perhaps lower.

As for maintenance of the cat. it takes us less than 5 minutes to clean (with an old paint brush) and we've found that 3 times per year is plenty as there just isn't much to clean.

Speaking of cleaning, we put up a new SS chimney when we installed the Fireview in the summer of 2007. We haven't cleaned it yet simply because there is nothing to clean; not even on the cap.

It also has cut our fuel needs almost in half and has kept us warmer than our old stove.

Also compare the guarantee on the Hearthstone vs. the Fireview. I don't think Hearthstone can come any where near Woodstock.

Finally, compare on this forum the comments on Woodstock vs. Hearthstone. That should certainly be enough to convince anyone.

Good luck.

 

[MCPO]

I`ve had both cat and non cat . I`ll choose the non cat any day. My Pacific Energy Spectra has been burning 15 yrs+ straight without a problem. I do know the guy burning it now has abused it at times. (overfired it)
The VC cat stove I had was a good heater but in 6 yrs I went thru 2 cats and the cost of a cat is equal to the cost of a cord of wood. They are rather fussy and delicate and their efficiency diminishes with use starting from day one. Any misuse or overfiring error can prematurely cause the precious metals coatings to peel.
And if you happen to close the damper too soon , you could often create puffbacks , and thats something that didn`t happen with my non cat.
One of the better design elements IMO of the PE Spectra is that it is an end loader. (north south) It was the only non cat stove I ever knew of that held a fire all night. Of course that was back then.
My bro in law has a newer , what looks to be a good sized non cat Hearthstone and the only drawback to this stove is that he can`t seem to be able to load enough wood to get an all night burn from it. I`m not certain it is the largest model they make but the fire box does appear to be rather small. It loads from the side. Glass is in front. How much wood a stove will load has to be important consideration for all night burns.

Either a cat / non cat will indeed reduce your wood consumption 25-33% and almost completely eliminate creosote deposits in your chimney. All I ever found was a small amount (2 cups) of dry black powder residue after running a brush down the flue every two years. (approx 6 cords)

 

[karri0n]

I have no firsthand experience with either brand.

I've seen no less than 5 threads from people with a cracked stone on their Hearthstone, and I've never seen one thread of a Woodstock with a cracked stone. That's not to say It doesn't happen or there haven't been threads, just none that I've noticed. Cracked stones aren't the end of the world and can be repaired with furnace cement.

I've seen people having trouble with warranty claims from the hearthstone, and I've only ever seen people raving about the experience from Woodstock with customer support and warranty issues.

I think Hearthstone stoves are very beautiful, and a step above Woodstock in the looks dept, but the Woodstocks do have a very classical look to them.

With Woodstock, you are dealing directly with a company who is known for their incredible customer service. With hearthstone, you are dealing with a dealer who may or may not be great in the customer service area(and I've seen a LOT of complaints about dealers lately. I personally have a dealer in my area who is known as one of the biggest and best dealers in the country, and I personally find them rude and condescending every time I walk in there).

The general consensus is you will use less wood(as long as it is seasoned very well!) with a cat stove than a secondary burn style stove.

A happy wife is often better than a left over 1/2 cord at the end of the season, and if a choice is made against her wishes, then ANY problem with a stove or with the amount of heat in the house will come back to "we should have just gotten the one I SAID we should get"

Since you already know you want the homestead, this doesn't come into play, but Woodstock doesn't make an extra large stove. Hearthstone has both the Mansfield(big) and the Equinox(enormous), and the FireView and Classic just aren't big enough for my house.

 

[Highbeam]

How big is your house? Woodstock lacks a stove of sufficient size to heat more than 1600 SF per their published ratings. The fireview is their largest and best rated for 900-1600 SF. People have heated larger houses than 1600SF but do you really want to be undergunned?

If your house falls in this range and you can handle the large rear clearance requirement then I believe the woodstock is superior to the equivalent Hearthstone which would be the heritage that I own which is rated for 1900 SF. Superior due to burn time mostly. Otherwise they are very very close. Currently, the woodstocks are all much cheaper than the hearthstones which is a factor for most.

If your house is larger than 1600 SF then you have more options with the hearthstone company. The heritage, mansfield, and equinox are all larger and rated to heat more than any woodstock. My hearthstone stove uses no firebrick or steel baffle parts that are prone to wear or replace, other than cleaning there is no maintenance with this non-cat. Maybe a door gasket someday? Oh and you will be wise to consider the heritage over the homestead since the heritage has a bigger firebox, more soapstone, and the super awesome side door.

Cat vs. non-cat is the thread title and I can say that my next stove will likely be a cat stove that is big enough for my house. The hearthstone has done everything that was promised and done it very well. The extended burn times and ability to burn at a low output is what attracts me to the cat stoves. I find both brands of soapstone equally attractive and furniture worthy.

Oh and the last thing, who cares about the dealer? Both manufacturers have been very responsive to my questions. Heck, my dealer went out of business the day after I bought my stove on clearance so no worries about the dealer.

 

[Flatbedford]

My house is about 1400 sqft. Due to the layout of my house, about 400 of them will never be heated by any stove so I think that the, somewhat lower output, Woodstock will work for me. Maybe, with the longer burn times, I will get some help with the far end of the house. What ever one we get, I don't expect to heat exclusively with wood, I just want to cut down on my furnace time as much as possible.

I guess thus has gone a little off topic form from cat vs non-cat, but with only two soapstone manufacturers, this ends up being Woodstock vs Hearthstone.

Material aside, with comparably sized stoves, is it safe to assume that a cat stove will give longer burn time than a non-cat? Will a cat also give more heat than non-cat? Will a cat stove generally be more efficient than non?

 

[karri0n]

Material aside, with comparably sized stoves, is it safe to assume that a cat stove will give longer burn time than a non-cat? Will a cat also give more heat than non-cat? Will a cat stove generally be more efficient than non?

Longer burn times are usually reported with a cat stove, while a non cat will often throw bigger heat over a shorter time frame. Efficiency in lab tests seems very slightly higher in a cat stove, but in the real world the even heat from the cat stove may *feel* quite a bit more efficient. Often in real world comparison people report using far less wood for the same amount of heat when replacing a non-cat with a similarly sized cat.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Steve, another thing to consider with today's stoves is how they are used. Too many think only of deep winter when you need the most heat and we know that is a very short period of time. I've caught flak on here because of trying to get people to feed their stoves differently....and am usually shot down saying that the stoves are made so you fill the firebox and it will throw heat.

That is all well and good except on days when you just don't need that much heat. So instead of filling our firebox and then opening doors and windows to cool the house, we simply feed the stove just a little (3 small splits) and turn it down. Yes, let it smolder if you will. With the Woodstock you can do that, thereby saving on fuel useage and not overcooking everyone in the house. Why have your stove at 500 degrees or higher when you don't need that much heat?

So, we build smaller fires and let the stove smolder....and do not have a creosote problem either. We still have not had to clean our new SS chimney we put up in the summer of 2007. It is still clean so does not need cleaning.

Please also realize that we do not buy our wood nor do we cut wood in the summer or fall and expect to burn it that winter. No, all wood needs to be seasoned. Next fall we will be burning wood that we cut and stacked either r or 5 years ago. Well seasoned you might say. It pays dividends to have well seasoned wood. The stove performs as it was made to perform, the wood burns nicely and you don't have a problem getting a fire started....and you don't clean the chimney nearly as much.

 

[Vic99]

I have burned a Hearthstone Homestead for 2 seasons and it is a good stove. Realize that most stove company ratings are for optimum conditions. So if Hearthstone says that the Homestead is rated for 1800 sq ft, that is true if you have excellent insulation and an open floor plan. Because of that, I should have gone with the Heritage.

The burn tube set up gives a really dynamic fire that is very interesting to watch. This is a significant feature for me.

My wife and I also like the stove's appearance. Dark marbled soapstone with some white flecks and a few subtle red-brown veins with the matte black iron trim. By the way, I'm told that the current quarry that Hearthstone draws from is nearly depleated and they will start using another, which will probably change what the stone looks like.

Woodstock's current stone is a lighter gray with both white & subtle blue-green veins.

We burn from mid October through early April, 24/7 except for the milder days. In northern MA, the stove is excellent for my set up except for January. We supplement with natural gas, usually in the early morning. Except for the natural gas days, typically we're seeing temps 73-77 in the stove room, 69-70 in the next room, and 65-68 upstairs.

I go through about 4 cords a season (1 of those cords is pine).

The dealer has been very helpful with minor issues I've had with the stove. No complaints there, although I really didn't like my installation experience with the company that they subcontract out to . . . a bad roll of the dice, I guess.

Overall, I'd give the Hearthstone Homestead a B+.

With all of that said, I'm "upgrading" to a Woodstock Fireview next weekend and selling my Homestead. I'll start another thread about that soon.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Flatbedford, you also might be pleasantly surprised with heating that extra 400 sq. ft. you have.

I've been heating with wood longer than most people's ages here in this forum. But one thing I learned, and it still seems contrary, is to sit a small fan in the doorway of that unheated room and blow the cool air out! It just seems natural to try to get the heat blowed in, but if you sit a small fan on the floor and blow the cool air towards the warm air, the warm air will go in up higher and you will indeed end up heating that cool room very well.

There are times, and we have one, where it pays to have both a fan blowing the cool air towards the warm and the warm air blowing away from the stove. We have a fan which blows above the stove (not directly at the stove) blowing towards a hallway and a small fan blowing towards the stove and have very even heat that way.