Cat vs Non-cat

[Highbeam]

So is this like a diesel debate? The old GM converted 350 diesel engine was a smoke belching dog and turned off many people to diesel technology but the new diesel is a totally different animal. Is that similar to cat stoves?

I must admit that I like a non cat burn, it is pretty, but I am also keenly aware that long burn times are a nice thing to have and lower temp long clean fires are a nice thing to have. With the non-cat stoves being ever encumbered with fancy schmancy technology to make them more challenging to burn I am wondering if a cat stove might be a good deal.

 

[TMonter]

I'm pretty interested to see a newer cat stove operate at this point. Does anyone make a cat stove with glass in it?

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm pretty interested to see a newer cat stove operate at this point. Does anyone make a cat stove with glass in it?

They all have glass in them these days. In fact I doubt that a manufacturer could give away a stove without glass anymore. Cat or non-cat.

 

[Beno]

Still don't know if the oily content of the cedar is a challenge for the catalyst.

 

[elkimmeg]

Beno I would suspect cedar will burn ok concerning the cat just like any wood get it chared up sitting on a decent bed of coals surface griddle top 500 degrees and let it
roll that cat gets upward to 1700 degrees and will buen off any oil present from cedar
what has not been touched upon yet many times the next hot burn can unclogg the cat combustor If it ignites it will burn off most residue deposited prior.

the opperator really has to get the opperation wrong to damage it. I mean if the wood is a bit more moist then the opperator should know it needs more time
in the damper open updraft mode. Really its no different that dampering down too early in a non cat stove. you need that first load to really get developed and start coaling same in all stoves there is no short cut to dampering too early just unproductive results.

If the fire box is hot probably any time past 4-- 450 surface temps the damper engaged forces tha smoke and oils over and threw the red to white hot coals most ot it will get burned off even before it enters the combustor and if it does it will be supoer heated and instantly ignite

 

[BrotherBart]

Still don't know if the oily content of the cedar is a challenge for the catalyst.

Cedar releases its volatiles so quickly and they burn so fast that you probably never would get around to being able to close the damper and engage a cat.

Then by the time you did there wouldn't be anything for it to burn.

Cedar is really, really bad firewood. Great kindling, but lousy firewood.

 

[Beno]

Sorry for asking again, but this is really important.
If the cedar burns that fast and I'll never be able to engage the cat, does this mean that a non-cat is better?

 

[jpl1nh]

Just thought I'd throw in this perspective too; if you're interested in just a small fire for a little heat, it doesn't matter at all cat vs no-cat. either way you probably won't get hot enough temps for either the firebox heat of clean burn technology, or the heat necessary to safely engage the cat combuster to effectively work. It will be just as dirty as any startup fire and that's it. So lowet temp questions don't seem that relevant to me. You get too small a fire in any technology and it just won't be effective.

 

[Gunner]

The question was almost answered by Elk but not really.

The question was

What is the lowest surface temp you can run your stove at with the cat engaged and doing it’s thing?

(buy doing it's thing I mean no visible smoke out the chimney)

One of the advantages of the cat stove is the ability to burn smoke/gas at 500* internal firebox. vs 1000 for a non cat.

Cat owner please post the lowest stovetop temps that you can continuously run your stove at with a clean burn.

I am just curious, no bashing of either type.

 

[Beno]

OK, this looks like an important advantage of the cat vs non-cat for burnings cedar. Let me summarize, cedar is not giving too much heat as firewood, so having a cat wll allow me to engage the stove at a lower temperature, 500 F as opposed to 1000 F for a non-cat. And also, the cat will burn longer time, with a higher efficiency that a non-cat, giving more heat out of my 'poor' cedar.
Do we have a winner pair: Cedar + cat ?

 

[Highbeam]

Cedar gives just as much heat per lb as any other wood. You just can't fit as many lbs in the firebox. The cedar will burn hot and fast so you will be reloading often but will certainly be able to get a stove to overheat if you try. The type of wood you have has little to do with whether a cat is better than a non-cat.

 

[treeman08]

I have a Blaze King cat that does not get mentioned by the cat bashers. It is advertised at 82% efficiency.
My real world experiences since install in October has been that I use similar amount of wood, but the house averages 8 to 10 degrees warmer, and I am saving 25 to 30 kWh per day over previous insert, the electric furnace has not kicked in except when the total burn ban was in effect.
As far as the stove top temps go, I have been burning low the last few weeks due to warmer weather. I have continually had good results, no smoke, and ability to bring up temperatures after 10+ hours just by opening the thermostatic control. The stove top thermometer reads 200 to 250 degrees and the cat thermometer reads around 400 to 450. The cat temp is just below light off temp, but remains burning. I do not know the Flue temp, but the cap has always been cool, causing issues as on other threads.
IMHO a cat stove is best if you want to have long burns that you do not have to mess with, however you also do not get to enjoy the flame view. If I had a well insulated house, and more time to enjoy the looks of the fire, I would get a non cat and burn hot beautiful fires in the evenings, and just let it go out at night.

 

[elkimmeg]

Step backwards: You need to purchase you stove cat or non cat from a dealerthat you feel most confortable with. One tha services or is willing to solve problem after the sale if they exist
The next most important or equally as important is the user learning to opperate the stove correctly and effeciently
Third is the wood cedar of oak ,it needs to be seasoned with a moisture containt condusive for wood burning. Too wet no stove will function correctly
Really the cat stove is no harder to work. It does need to be cleaned which amounts to shop Vac and shop vac blowing it out.
If buying a cat stove have the dealer show how to remove the cat. If it is a VC stove its about as easy as it gets mine no screws of bolts to remove. It takes me longer to get the shop vac out and put away again than to clean and install the cat. It can be done in less than 5 minutes up to 10 putting stuff away. Me if the shop vac is near the stove, I clean up everything , not just the cat..


Gunner I have to think who has a cat probe and surface thermo I will PM Todd I know soap stove is not the surface temp you want to compare so maybe he can do the vent surface temp

I think Tood has a Condar combustor probe I know Mo does but he has an insert and may not be able to recore surface temps witha convection shraud and can't get to his connector pipe t without taking off the surround.. Also note there is alagg time if a lot of smoke is present all at once not all will bet burned off instantly atleast on the lower temp range.

once you get ignition it tends to keep going at times ther can be a 5 to 10 minute lagg other times reloading a hot fire box and dampering engaging the cat no smoke at all .

Remember we are dealing with natural draft which varies

 

[Gunner]

I have a Blaze King cat that does not get mentioned by the cat bashers. It is advertised at 82% efficiency.
My real world experiences since install in October has been that I use similar amount of wood, but the house averages 8 to 10 degrees warmer, and I am saving 25 to 30 kWh per day over previous insert, the electric furnace has not kicked in except when the total burn ban was in effect.
As far as the stove top temps go, I have been burning low the last few weeks due to warmer weather. I have continually had good results, no smoke, and ability to bring up temperatures after 10+ hours just by opening the thermostatic control. The stove top thermometer reads 200 to 250 degrees and the cat thermometer reads around 400 to 450. The cat temp is just below light off temp, but remains burning. I do not know the Flue temp, but the cap has always been cool, causing issues as on other threads.
IMHO a cat stove is best if you want to have long burns that you do not have to mess with, however you also do not get to enjoy the flame view. If I had a well insulated house, and more time to enjoy the looks of the fire, I would get a non cat and burn hot beautiful fires in the evenings, and just let it go out at night.

Thank you , that was what I was looking for. So you are able to burn clean with cat engaged at 200-250 surface temp. Everyone has said lightoff is at 500*internally but you are the first person I heard that actually does it, most are engaging the cat at much higher temps.

 

[Roospike]

Sitting back and reading all the information on cat vs non cat and how they both work , keeping an open mind and looking at the big picture of it all ..................

If you think about it , the whole deal on light off temps and inside stove temps (low) is kinda pointless. I mean really , is anybody out there with a modern stove running the inside of there stove at 350° with a surface temp of around 175° ?

I know what the #' mean but to somebody looking to buy a new modern stove it looks like real good information but actually doesn't mean squat with real work home heating.

Its kinda like the 2 grams per hour thread ..........it LOOKS like big information to a newbe / someone looking to buy a modern stove and as pointed out it adds up to a whopping 1 log difference over the whole heating season , again , actually doesn't mean squat with real world home heating.

Am I the only one sitting back, looking at the big picture and seeing this ?

This is all good information to debate between the brotherhood but its a moot point to a newbe / some one looking for a new modern stove .

"I admit defeat" that's right ..... you read here it folks. Cat stove are cleaner burning and lower light off temps then non cat stove .

Now , go out side and look at your monster wood pile .........3 cords ? 6 cords ? take one log out of the wood pile and throw it away ............ now you have a non cat stove difference.

Elk pointed it out best as to how the operator of the stove works there own stove.

 

[Todd]

The question was almost answered by Elk but not really.

The question was

What is the lowest surface temp you can run your stove at with the cat engaged and doing it’s thing?

(buy doing it's thing I mean no visible smoke out the chimney)

One of the advantages of the cat stove is the ability to burn smoke/gas at 500* internal firebox. vs 1000 for a non cat.

Cat owner please post the lowest stovetop temps that you can continuously run your stove at with a clean burn.

I am just curious, no bashing of either type.

This from Woodstock. Once the wood smoke is up to 500 and the combustor is ignighted, it will continue to burn smoke for as long as there is smoke to be burned. After the fire is down to coals there is very little smoke left.

When I got home from work today my stove has been burning for 12 hrs, still good bed of coals. Stove top 275, cat probe just under 500. My house was 72 so I just put a few small splits in there to keep a good coal bed going til my before bed refueling. I burned on high for 10 minutes, engaged the cat, and currently burning at a 375 stove top temp and 600 probe temp. No smoke out the chimney.

I never tried to see how low she will go, but after my fire burns down to the coal stage and my stove surface temps are around 300. My internal cat probe is still in the 400-600 range so the cat is still active.

 

[Gunner]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

 

[Roospike]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

Gunner , we were posting at the same time so your post wasnt up yet at the time. I was making a blanket statement so it was with you and not at you just so there isny any confusion . ;-)

The debate is all good information i just feel the information looks to be more than what it really is to a new modern stove buyer.

As for the low light off temp .........it is a pro of what a stove can do but so is whorehouse red for a color option . :lol:

It might be enough to make a stove choice off of but in the over all sceam of things its not a huge difference in how much wood you will burn or how the stove runs thorough a season of wood.

 

[Sandor]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

Would a 200 degree stove temp take the chill out of the house in the spring and fall? Like a 45F rainy day?

 

[BrotherBart]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

Would a 200 degree stove temp take the chill out of the house in the spring and fall? Like a 45F rainy day?

Virtually anywhere from 15 to 50 degrees a 200 degree stove would be a blessing in this house. When warmed up it holds heat like a champ and is a groan to keep at a level temp with a wood stove.

 

[Roospike]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

Would a 200 degree stove temp take the chill out of the house in the spring and fall? Like a 45F rainy day?

Sure , In a real small house it should work fine. In my 1800sf house it wouldn't do much good. Now if i closed off the up stairs and shut the back room off then maybe it could do some good but i use the stove as a whole house heater so ................

 

[jpl1nh]

Like Sandor asks, would a 200 degree stove temp take the chill out of the house in the spring and the fall? 1/2 hour with my hot air fossel fuel burnin furnace does that real well. But I want to do that real well with wood. And I think thats a place we all dance around a bit cause it ain't easy, and I question whether cat or non cat clean technology even engages in those little fire situations. The cat non-cat debate can rage on and on at cold temps and I think they both can do a great job of cranking out lots of great, efficient heat. Its those finge situations that I wish I knew better answers for and that I ponder as the last cold gasp of winter gets ready to head out of the NE.

 

[Sandor]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

Would a 200 degree stove temp take the chill out of the house in the spring and fall? Like a 45F rainy day?

Sure , In a real small house it should work fine. In my 1800sf house it wouldn't do much good. Now if i closed off the up stairs and shut the back room off then maybe it could do some good but i use the stove as a whole house heater so ................

Ok, bump it to 275. Works good in the 1600 sq/ft ranch.

 

[Sandor]

Roo it may very well be a moot point, but we are being told that this is one of the pro's of a cat stove the interal 500* light off. I have never heard of anyone ever doing this until now....It has always been take it up until 4-500* surface then engage.

I personaly don't see the point of a 200* stove in my climate but others may.

Would a 200 degree stove temp take the chill out of the house in the spring and fall? Like a 45F rainy day?

Virtually anywhere from 15 to 50 degrees a 200 degree stove would be a blessing in this house. When warmed up it holds heat like a champ and is a groan to keep at a level temp with a wood stove.

Enter Soapstone.

 

[treeman08]

My normal routine when I get home from work, (stove top is 250 and cat around 400 no visible fire or coals). I open the thermostatic control and then go change my cloths. When I return the coals are glowing red with some sparks. The cat temp is usually up to normal light off temp 500 degrees. I add a couple of small splits and reengage the cat within a minute or two. I give it 15 to 30 minutes to char, and then readjust the thermostatic control and fan for the desired heat depending on the outside temperature.
I have found as spring approaches that I can really control the burn time with the fan setting. I am now believing the 20 hour burn time that Blaze King advertises could be achieved if the fan was set on lowest possible or off. If out side temperatures were cold, you would freeze, but you would have 20 hours of clean burn.
As to the 40 to 45 degrees question… YES. We have been having 40 to 50’s for highs and 30 to 35 lows. I have been keeping a 2000 sqft house at 75+ degrees all day and night as described above. However when the night temps are below 20 degrees, I have to crank up the fan and thermo.