Ceramic Blanket / Kaowool Replacement

[linckeil]

I have a Hearthstone Mansfield that I purchased new about 5 years ago. Each spring, I remove the baffle so that when I sweep the chimney, all the creosote and soot lands directly in the firebox as opposed to getting hung up on the baffle and remaining there.

Each year I’ve noticed that the ceramic fire baffle (item #29 pictured in the below link), and the ceramic blanket (item#26) are further and further deteriorated. In fact, I discarded the blanket all together a couple of years ago.

http://www.hearthstoneparts.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=8012

I realize this ceramic baffle and ceramic blanket are there to keep the flames and heat in the firebox and to assist with the secondary combustion feature of the stove – something I certainly want to maintain as I want my stove to operate as efficiently as possible.

Replacing these parts will cost over $100. I’m ok with that if they lasted more than a few seasons. But given their short life, I’m looking for something more cost effective and something that will last longer.
Any suggestions? What about using ceramic tile? Won’t that accomplish the same thing? It may not insulate as well, but it’s much more durable and a heck of a lot cheaper.

 

[mellow]

Kaowool can be purchased in bulk on ebay. Maybe split the costs with a relative or friend and be set for life?

Others have purchased the baffle used on other stoves off of ebay as well and report good success.

 

[linckeil]

i know the generic material is available and at a significantly lower cost than buying it directly from the manufacturer, but my concern is in finding something that is more durable and will offer greater longevity. regardless of cost, i'd perfer to not have to risk damaging it everytime i sweep my chimney.

has anyone substituted another material in place of this ceramic baffle/blanket? such as maybe ceramic tile?

 

[jolby]

Here's a link http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...ensity+ceramic+fiber+board&_sacat=0&_from=R40 to a board 3' x 2' x 1/2" for $66 but the free shipping is a misnomer, i checked at the seller's website and there it ships for over $30. Nevertheless you would still save $35 or so bucks.

My Buck uses a 1/8" metal baffle plate with a piece of insulating blanket on top. I would suggest trying that but it warped. I did take it to a metal shop and had it flattened, so i will see how long that lasts.

I just did a blockoff plate and used roxul on top. Having a lot left over, i replaced my old baffle insulation with a piece of it but had to split it since i only have 3" above the burn tubes and the roxul is 3" thick. The roxul came from Lowes for $48 (12 pieces about 15" W x 4' L x 3" T). You might be able to get some 1 or 2" thick if you thought it was worth trying. It is non combustible and has a melting point of 2150*F

 

[linckeil]

so how did that metal baffle plate work (other than it eventually warping)?? do you feel it aided with the secondary combustion?

i'm thinking of doing the same thing, except with ceramic tile that may crack, but won't warp.

 

[jolby]

I started using the stove in Jan 2011 and the baffle was warped i noticed when i took it out that summer to brush the flex pipe. I didn't have a thermometer then so maybe i got the stove too hot but doubt it. Anyway i have been using it warped (1/2" or so) making sure that the insulating blanket covers the gaps, and the secondaries still fire and stove gets to 500--600 with no trouble. Still i don't like the warping and may try either a thicker piece of metal or a ceramic board.

I did a search and someone used hardibacker or durock to get them through the season because their board had deteriorated. That worked ok but don't think it would be a permanent solution. Maybe the ceramic tile would work but haven't read of anyone's results, even though i did read of the idea.

Do you not take your board out when cleaning the flue? Sorry, just re read that you do

 

[linckeil]

i think i'll try the ceramic tile idea - unless someone has a reason not to?

i have a flue damper on the first 6 inches of pipe coming out of the stove, so regulating/closing that certainly helps to keep the heat from going up the chimney and definetly helps to promote the secondary combustion - and the stove has no problem climbing above 500 degrees in its current state.

 

[blades]

Check and see if you have a heatreating / kiln repair company around your area or a supplier to same. they likely would have materials that would work. That is where I got mine from a few years back from a local distributor. It wasn't the hard ceramic board but similar 1/2" thick 2100f or better rating. sorry been tool long for the name of it I do remeber iot was a bout $50 for 3x3 piece.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I was able to buy kaowool from my local hearth store by the foot. They just cut it off a roll of the stuff. I remember it wasn't overly cheap, but not crazy expensive either.

If you want to spend time cutting, maybe slices off a roxul batt would work.

Matt

 

[Holiday]

My stove has the metal plate with the ceramic laying on top as well. I bought the stove used and the plate was warped a bit but I straightened it and it's been fine after 3 months of burning.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

It will actually burn more efficiently with the fiber baffle board. Don't even bother ordering the wool from the manufacturer, it will cost WAY too much. At the store I work at we sell the wool for 7 bucks a square foot. Usually an equivalent piece cut to shape from one of our manufacturers will be disgustingly expensive. Just go to a hearth retailer and tell them you want 4 square feet of ceramic wool. Take your baffle board out and lay it on the wool. Trace it with a magic marker and trim to size. Wha-la, cheap as dirt DIY.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

It will actually burn more efficiently with the fiber baffle board. Don't even bother ordering the wool from the manufacturer, it will cost WAY too much. At the store I work at we sell the wool for 7 bucks a square foot. Usually an equivalent piece cut to shape from one of our manufacturers will be disgustingly expensive. Just go to a hearth retailer and tell them you want 4 square feet of ceramic wool. Take your baffle board out and lay it on the wool. Trace it with a magic marker and trim to size. Wha-la, cheap as dirt DIY.

How thick does the layer of kaowool need to be? I see listings on Amazon for pieces that are one or two inches thick. Is that enough to really see a big difference in restricting heat loss?

http://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Blank...pebp=1440536170101&perid=047CZH31J5DDVPXY6085

I see some other folks use roxul, but when I see that at Home Depot, they list it as a soundproofing material...

 

[begreen]

Roxul is mineral wool insulation. It works well for sound and because it is inert with no combustibles it works well for packing around the liner at the top and bottom of the chimney. Kaowool will also work. 1" or 2" are both fine. It's more expensive though.

 

[Fastdonzi]

I used the Roxul and stuffed it above my Block Off Plate, What's left I'm gonna use to insulate my well house, I have a lot left for the exposed Liner under the Block Off Plate I used Titanium Header Wrap

 

[Smoked]

This thread had some thoughts on the baffles with ideas and feedback. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ramic-baffle-modification-relplacement.76139/

I would be very careful about changing the material though unless you know the characteristics are similar. Is it possible that changing the baffle material could cause the stove to overfire or to take longer to get to secondary burn? Those would be my concerns along with weight on the tubes from the above thread. My first baffle lasted 10 seasons and I only replaced it because a corner broke off when it fell into the firebox. The replacement I received from Hearthstone seems a little thicker but I do not know if they have beefed it up or just that the old one had deteriorated some with age.

 

[branchburner]

Is it possible that changing the baffle material could cause the stove to overfire or to take longer to get to secondary burn? Those would be my concerns along with weight on the tubes from the above thread.

Consider also that a different replacement material, like brick, will be a different thickness and may change the dynamics of the air flow.

Jotul switched baffle material from cast iron to ceramic board, but because of warping issues, not weight. I plan to follow another forum member (Dexter) with an older F600 and switch from cast to brick (not much weight diff). His experience was that the tube assembly was quite sturdy (even under weight) for over a decade, but the cast iron would warp every 2-3 years.

He didn't see much performance change with brick, but considered it was likely the secondaries took slightly longer to kick in. As for overfire, I expect that is only likely in a case where one uses an inferior material that fails or warps.

IMHO, I would not suggest modifying any stove that is still under warranty, as that voids the warranty. If and when a modification is made, stove top and flue temps should be closely monitored to watch not just for performance issues, but for more so for potential safety/damage issues.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

Are there different types of Roxul, or variances in it? Or can I just get a bale of this from Home Depot and be fine?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roxul-Sa...e-Wool-Insulation-12-Roll-RXSS31525/202531875

Just don't want to find out that I bought the wrong kind, and it's going to flame up in my chimney

 

[kennyp2339]

I wouldn't use roxul to replace a ceramic blanket. Here me out, I am a stove enthusiasts not a pro. Roxul comes in a big bag each bat is about 6" thick, for that 6" your only getting a certain R rating. The space between your existing baffle plate and the top of your stove is only so high, and since its an engineering design, I would imagine there to be a certain amount of passage space for the smoke to go, if that space gets clogged or reduced by say the 6" of roxal you can lose the functional operation of your stove. Now if you trim the roxal in half to 3" thick what's the gain in r-value, since it was cut in half. I would replace the ceramic blanket with another ceramic blanket. Keep the roxal to insulate the chimney

 

[branchburner]

Are there different types of Roxul, or variances in it? Or can I just get a bale of this from Home Depot and be fine?

I assume you are looking to insulate a chimney liner or block-off plate, and not looking for thinner high-density material for interior stove components (baffles/blankets), correct? Let us know the application of the bale you plan to get at HD, because without the details of what you are doing with it it is hard to say if what your are doing is safe and to code.

 

[begreen]

I wouldn't use roxul to replace a ceramic blanket. Here me out, I am a stove enthusiasts not a pro. Roxul comes in a big bag each bat is about 6" thick, for that 6" your only getting a certain R rating...

Agreed the batt material would be a poor choice. Roxul also makes a rigid mineral fiber board called Comfortboard. I think that may be what is being considering for a baffle. It is primarily sold to the acoustic dampening market like Micore. If so, I would not use it. It has a melting point of only 1177.

 

[branchburner]

Roxul also makes a rigid mineral fiber board called Comfortboard. I think that may be what is being considering for a baffle. It is primarily sold to the acoustic dampening market like Micore. If so, I would not use it. It has a melting point of only 1177.

I think that's 1177C, and so would be 2150F... but it seems not widely available except at only 1.5 or 2" thick. Seems very inexpensive though, on ebay and Lowe's... about a buck per sq ft.. Roxul also has several other boards of different density and thickness, but virtually all are for commercial application.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

Thanks! I want to make a block-off plate to fit in above our Regency CI2600, as detailed here:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/poor-mans-block-off-plate-ii.73018/

I have read a lot of threads about this, and people refer to Roxul as both a "bale" and a "board". I want to be sure I'm putting in the right thing, if I'm stuffing it up there.

 

[begreen]

Both forms will work for a block-off plate as will kaowool insulation if you have extra from a liner.