Chimney liner install pricing

[mellow]

I know if it was me a Class A pipe even painted to match the house color sticking out the side of my historic house running all the way up to the roof would be out of the question.

 

[begreen]

Heather needs to read their documentation. Try another tech at M&G. Their rigid liner is 0 clearance as is Duraliner flex, with an insulation sleeve. If you need flex, install insulation at the points where there is exposed wood. It will get this job done safely, legally and will keep the costs affordable. (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)

 

[Ashful]

I know if it was me a Class A pipe even painted to match the house color sticking out the side of my historic house running all the way up to the roof would be out of the question.

My thoughts exactly, but I wasn't going to come out and say it. If the costs are too high to justify using one of the existing flues, I'll either build another masonry stack or forget the second stove altogether.

Heather needs to read their documentation. Try another tech at M&G. Their rigid liner is 0 clearance as is Duraliner flex, with an insulation sleeve. If you need flex, install insulation at the points where there is exposed wood. It will get this job done safely, legally and will keep the costs affordable. (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)

Thanks, begreen. I'll have to read thru that in detail tonight. I think what she said was that they're rated for zero clearance in gas stove applications, but for woodburning they needed something like 2" to combustables. I should read myself to verify.

 

[begreen]

The quote I posted (and web page link) is for all-fuel Duraliner, not gas. Although possible, using that pipe for gas would be overkill and more expensive.

DuraLiner is a double-wall, insulated all-fuel
reliner for masonry chimneys. DuraLiner is
listed and approved for installation with zero
clearance between the liner and masonry,
plus zero clearance between the masonry and
combustibles. The DuraLiner lining system
is intended for field installation into new or
existing masonry chimney used for natural
draft venting of gas, liquid and solid-fuel
fired residential type appliances in which
the maximum continuous flue gas outlet
temperatures do not exceed 1000°F/538°C
(UL 1777) or 1200°F/650°C (ULC S635).
DuraLiner is listed to the UL 1777 standard for
Chimney Liners, under the listing file number
MH14420. DuraLiner is also listed to the
Canadian Standards ULC S635 as a liner for
existing masonry chimneys, under the listing
file number MH14420. DuraLiner meets all the
thermal, mechanical and material requirements
of the UL1777 and ULC S635 standards.

 

[mellow]

Just got the price quote for the liner inside a liner proposal outlined above. $9000

Did he breakdown the quote? Curious what it would be for insulated 6" flex the whole way down now that you know that one section is 12x12.

 

[clemsonfor]

I go with what the guys are saying for the zero clearance flex liner with the insulation.

As far as the class A chimney. Im practical. I like old things but dont have the money to own or maintain them. That said im practical and i could not spend $9k on a chimney and sounds like you are not, but i would not hesitate to put a class A in if it was me (you can always remove it). It was a sugestion is all yalls points are taken and i totally understand.

 

[Ashful]

No offense taken or intended, clemsonfor. I understand exactly what you're saying, and class A may very well be where I end up, but I'm going to wear out every other alternative first! Our annual oil expense is roughly $5000. If we can even take $1500 per year off that total, then consider that amortized over 5 - 10 years, we can justify an expense of $7500 - $15,000 for this install. I believe in staying closer to a 5 year ammortization, but knowing oil prices will continue to climb over the next decade, I don't mind exceeding that $7500 number if needed.

Thanks for posting that, begreen. Looks like I need to make another call to Duraliner. Not sure why I got bad info on my first call.

Still waiting on a reply from Supaflu. They may be good, but they're not fast!

 

[begreen]

Thanks for posting that, begreen. Looks like I need to make another call to Duraliner. Not sure why I got bad info on my first call.

Maybe she's new on the job. Or maybe she's in India where woodstoves are not too common?

It doesn't really matter, the pipe is certified UL1777 for solid fuel and zero-clearance when installed correctly. You can take that to the inspecting authority.

 

[clemsonfor]

I seriously dont see how you folks up there spend that kind of money for heat!!?? I make a decent living, meaning i make above the nation salery average. I save money each month over my expenses and consider my self bright and common sense wise as well as technical and book (only pointing this out so you dont think im some young kid morgauged and loaned more than i can ever pay off) smart. But i honestly dont see how you can affor some of these expenses i have been reading lately in the north east to heat your home. One guy $500month in oil you $5k a season There is no way i can afford that! I bought a used $900 EPA insert have had it a season and a half and figure im about $100 shy of making my money back on savings(ignoring interest of course, which at this time is not very good). I know here in SC we dont get that cold for extended periods but we get HOT especially lately, and we still dont have crazy bills like that for AC. I go crazy when i get north of $250/month. I live in a 3k sqft home as well that is very under insulated. I do have dual HVAC units so i can keep the side we dont frequent warmer to save $$.

 

[Ashful]

I think $5k/year is very much at the upper end of the spectrum for heating costs in my region, and that figure includes all my hot water. This is a big old house. My last house cost me less than $2k /year to heat.

We have a yearly average 5785 heating degree days, whereas Greenwood, SC has a yearly average of 3165, so one would expect our heating costs to be approximately 83% higher than yours, per square foot.

 

[clemsonfor]

Oh i dont doubt its way colder there, my point is i just dont see how you afford to pay that Its hotter here i gues we have more colling days but im just glad my AC bills are not in par. We were running AC in May here. At least its not texas though!!

 

[Ashful]

No reply from Supaflu, a week after filling out their web site contact form. Tried calling a few times, and always get the "we are currently helping other customers, please leave a message" automated response. Does anyone have first-hand experience with this company? Seems they're all franchised in this area. Not sure anyone is manning home base.

Also have a call into Duravent, to ask about the seemingly incorrect info I was given last time I called. edit: begreen, reading again, I think Megan may have been correct in this situation. They state zero clearance to masonry, with the masonry in contact with combustables. Such as a stone chimney where timber framing is touching the chimney exterior. In this case, I am told I have wood timbers running thru the flue itself.

 

[Ashful]

Spoke with Dale in tech support at Duravent. His statement: "there is no way to line this chimney." Basically, any chimney "liner" requires a properly constructed chimney, with no internal combustables. They are only rated with respect to combustables touching the outside of the chimney, not having them inside the flue. While he did not say my installer's proposal was unsafe, he did say it was not legal. He said the same stands for (their) poured chimney product.

He said the only hope of lining a chimney with internal combustables would be to use a stand-alone chimney product, such as Duravent Duratech double-wall chimney. This only requires 2" clearance to combustables. Their 6" product has an 8" OD, and therefore requires a minimum 12" masonry flue. Because it is completely rigid that 12" minimum chimney must also be straight. Unfortunately, we know that is not the case with mine, which jogs in the area where the combustables exist.

Things are not looking good!

 

[mellow]

Called the 800 # and get the same message, maybe Todd can get you the guys name/number that installed his system and you can get to a local installer that way?

 

[begreen]

Hmm, that is discouraging. Considering that you have good access on the lower part, what if metal heat shields with 1" spacing off the wood were installed? And is that an option by opening one side of the upper chimney where there is also exposed wood?

 

[Todd]

I went the same route as you contacting Supaflu and they gave me a number to a local sweep/chimney guy who came out and gave me a bid. I think I had it done last April before it got too busy. I dont know if it will work for your situation with all that exposed wood but I'd keep trying to contact them.

If it can't be lined safely maybe you can cap it off, drill through the back of the fireplace to the outside and run class A up the side of the house and build a chase around it if you don't like the look of the pipe?

 

[Ashful]

Hmm, that is discouraging. Considering that you have good access on the lower part, what if metal heat shields with 1" spacing off the wood were installed? And is that an option by opening one side of the upper chimney where there is also exposed wood?

I've been pushing the original inspector (a masonry company) on opening up one side of the chimney, as you suggest. He's not in favor of it, but I do think it could be the best way to go, at this point. Might be time for a second opinion on that. If we can get in there and see what we're doing, this is likely the best way to either remove or avoid the wood.

I went the same route as you contacting Supaflu and they gave me a number to a local sweep/chimney guy who came out and gave me a bid. I think I had it done last April before it got too busy. I dont know if it will work for your situation with all that exposed wood but I'd keep trying to contact them.

If it can't be lined safely maybe you can cap it off, drill through the back of the fireplace to the outside and run class A up the side of the house and build a chase around it if you don't like the look of the pipe?

Thanks for trying. I'll keep calling Supaflu.

An exterior chimney may be an option, but I'd be surprised if it's cheaper than dismantling and rebuilding the one I already have. After all, it looks like all the problems are in the top 10 feet of this stack.

I do have some new photos from the original inspection, showing what does appear to be wood. It's difficult to see exactly what's going on in there, though. I might just put a camcorder on a long pole, and try to get some of my own video of the situation. There's a 4" liner still hanging in there from the old gas insert, which is sure to be an obstacle, and I can't get it out without getting to the top of this chimney.

 

[Ashful]

So, I put my video camera on my pruning pole, and ran it up the chimney. Approximately 29 feet from the floor of the firebox to the top of the chimney. This is what I paid the inspector to do (cost me $500 for the cleaning and inspection), and I found out in a conversation with him today that he never actually took any video or put any type of camera up thru the chimney. His "level 2" inspection consisted only of looking up the chimney from below.

I did not see any wood. The 4" liner from the gas insert is still in there, so I was trying to work around that. I saw a lot of brick in the area where the inspector insisted there was wood, and I suppose it's possible he mistook this for wood, since he did not bother to put a camera up into the chimney and only inspected from below. It's also possible something was there and I missed it due to working around the old chimney liner.

I intend to call the owner of the company tomorrow to submit a complaint. I want them to send a different tech to do the job we paid for and did not receive. This time I will be on site to be sure the job is done right.

 

[Hogwildz]

Spoke with Dale in tech support at Duravent. His statement: "there is no way to line this chimney." Basically, any chimney "liner" requires a properly constructed chimney, with no internal combustables. They are only rated with respect to combustables touching the outside of the chimney, not having them inside the flue. While he did not say my installer's proposal was unsafe, he did say it was not legal. He said the same stands for (their) poured chimney product.

He said the only hope of lining a chimney with internal combustables would be to use a stand-alone chimney product, such as Duravent Duratech double-wall chimney. This only requires 2" clearance to combustables. Their 6" product has an 8" OD, and therefore requires a minimum 12" masonry flue. Because it is completely rigid that 12" minimum chimney must also be straight. Unfortunately, we know that is not the case with mine, which jogs in the area where the combustables exist.

Things are not looking good!

Just stretching here, but how about the Duratech double wall rigid in the area where the wood is, an insulated flex extending off that the remainder of both ways? I have the same double wall rigid in my sytem, with 5' of flex at the bottom to the insert.

 

[Ashful]

Just stretching here, but how about the Duratech double wall rigid in the area where the wood is, an insulated flex extending off that the remainder of both ways? I have the same double wall rigid in my sytem, with 5' of flex at the bottom to the insert.

Perhaps... but read below!

I did not see any wood.

Will be taking this up with the inspector's boss this morning. We were charged (actually double-charged) for a job that I learned only yesterday was never done. I can find the objects the inspector mentioned, but they are brick, not wood. He would have easily seen this, had he actually done the inspection as billed.

 

[mellow]

Wow, gotta love that. I would insist that they take the 4" liner out of the chimney for free and run a camera down. It is a shame there are so many bad chimney sweeping tech's (notice I didn't say companies) out there these days. I would tell them to send a new tech WITH his list of NCSG and CSIA certifications over ASAP.

 

[Ashful]

Wow, gotta love that. I would insist that they take the 4" liner out of the chimney for free and run a camera down. It is a shame there are so many bad chimney sweeping tech's (notice I didn't say companies) out there these days. I would tell them to send a new tech WITH his list of NCSG and CSIA certifications over ASAP.

Yep... that's exactly what I'm doing. Already have a call into the owner, who very likely knows about none of this. Hopefully he's a straight shooter. You will certainly be hearing about it if he's not.

edit: Spoke with the business owner, and as I anticipated, he was surprised with what I had to say about the inspection and the quote. He offered right away to send another tech out to do the inspection and cleaning, as intended. He also said he will investigate the bill, and will be making a refund to us if we were charged for anything that is not being done, or was calculated in error.

 

[Ashful]

Just had another tech out to redo the inspection, and there is NO WOOD in the chimney! After the difficult time the owner of this business gave me on our last phone call, it will be interesting to see how he responds to this.