Chimney liner installed wrong direction

[tathspts]

I just learned that guy who did the installation have installed the chimney liner in wrong direction. Attached picture. This end was cut on the top of the roof during installation.

So much for I have been doing this for 40 years.

I called him and he says he will pass monday. I wonder if he is to take it out and reinsert it in the right direction can that potentially damage the liner?

Honestly I regret the decision of buying an insert now.

 

[bholler]

I just learned that guy who did the installation have installed the chimney liner in wrong direction. Attached picture. This end was cut on the top of the roof during installation.

So much for I have been doing this for 40 years.

I called him and he says he will pass monday. I wonder if he is to take it out and reinsert it in the right direction can that potentially damage the liner?

Honestly I regret the decision of buying an insert now.

What does the inside of that liner look like?

 

[tathspts]

It is vortex liner sold by sbi. Here are some pictures.

What does the inside of that liner look like?

 

[bholler]

It is vortex liner sold by sbi. Here are some pictures.

That is non-directional liner it doesn't matter

 

[tathspts]

here is the link to their manual, it does say something about the lock being directional.

https://d3rwe0jvtsa9tq.cloudfront.net/media/contentmanager/content/products_documents/45849A_03-02-2016.pdf

it does not say anything about the fact if arrow needs to follow the direction of the flue or that end that is labeled up needs to be on the top.

I want to give the installer a benefit of the doubt here, he seemed like a nice guy and at the end of the day anyone can make mistake.

 

[bholler]

here is the link to their manual, it does say something about the lock being directional.

https://d3rwe0jvtsa9tq.cloudfront.net/media/contentmanager/content/products_documents/45849A_03-02-2016.pdf

it does not say anything about the fact if arrow needs to follow the direction of the flue or that end that is labeled up needs to be on the top.

I want to give the installer a benefit of the doubt here, he seemed like a nice guy and at the end of the day anyone can make mistake.

Direction doesn't matter with that type of liner. It does with most other types though

 

[KrisP]

i have the same liner, i contacted SBI and its affiliate companies on their website, customer service, and through amazon. All the answers they gave me said its not directional even though the manual says it is.....they also have told me its a single ply which would not be directional.

 

[tathspts]

bholler, can you please help me understand how so? What is it in this type of liner that makes no difference of direction.

I called sbi about it and the person on the phone also said it does not really matter. I was a little surprised by his answer, since the product manual does states warranty being voided if it is not installed as per instructions. Also it mentioned "CAPS" that if installed upside down the creosote can spill outside.

I am really eager to know why direction does not matter here.

Direction doesn't matter with that type of liner. It does with most other types though

 

[bholler]

bholler, can you please help me understand how so? What is it in this type of liner that makes no difference of direction.

I called sbi about it and the person on the phone also said it does not really matter. I was a little surprised by his answer, since the product manual does states warranty being voided if it is not installed as per instructions. Also it mentioned "CAPS" that if installed upside down the creosote can spill outside.

I am really eager to know why direction does not matter here.

Well the instructions say it is directional so even though it doesn't matter with that type of construction it needs to be installed according to their instructions so he should switch it

 

[tathspts]

it's for sure is directional. If you look at the locks you will realize how it is directional. I am guessing the lock direction maters due to expansion and contraction of the liner because of the heat, which can explain why creosote can spill through because of wrong direction. But I am not so sure.

i have the same liner, i contacted SBI and its affiliate companies on their website, customer service, and through amazon. All the answers they gave me said its not directional even though the manual says it is.....they also have told me its a single ply which would not be directional.

 

[tathspts]

Can switching be done without damaging the liner?

Well the instructions say it is directional so even though it doesn't matter with that type of construction it needs to be installed according to their instructions so he should switch it

 

[bholler]

it's for sure is directional. If you look at the locks you will realize how it is directional. I am guessing the lock direction maters due to expansion and contraction of the liner because of the heat, which can explain why creosote can spill through because of wrong direction. But I am not so sure.

I have been doing this a long time and worked with all the different types of liners. Functionality direction of your liner makes absolutely no difference. But because the instructions say it needs to be installed in one orientation it should be.

 

[bholler]

Can switching be done without damaging the liner?

It should be able to be done. If he got it in without damaging it he should be able to get it out. Is it insulated?

 

[tathspts]

Functionality wise I agree with you. I should not make any difference in functionality.

I am just trying to understand how the lock direction is related to creosote spill over to the outside of the liner. Steel expansion and contraction due to heat is the only thing I could think of.

liner is not insulated.

It should be able to be done. If he got it in without damaging it he should be able to get it out. Is it insulated?

I have been doing this a long time and worked with all the different types of liners. Functionality direction of your liner makes absolutely no difference. But because the instructions say it needs to be installed in one orientation it should be.

 

[bholler]

Functionality wise I agree with you. I should not make any difference in functionality.

I am just trying to understand how the lock direction is related to creosote spill over to the outside of the liner. Steel expansion and contraction due to heat is the only thing I could think of.

liner is not insulated.

With this type of liner creosote won't spill out. That is what I am telling you. But it needs to be insulated for use with solid fuel. The instructions even say so

 

[bholler]

Functionality wise I agree with you. I should not make any difference in functionality.

I am just trying to understand how the lock direction is related to creosote spill over to the outside of the liner. Steel expansion and contraction due to heat is the only thing I could think of.

liner is not insulated.

Honestly I think they are just using the same manual and labels for all of their liners. And as I said almost all other types direction matters allot

 

[tathspts]

what are the other types? I am really curious to understand what is the difference.

I will look into insulation.

I am very surprised to see that professional installer can make these type of mistakes, he mentioned nothing about insulation either.

With this type of liner creosote won't spill out. That is what I am telling you. But it needs to be insulated for use with solid fuel. The instructions even say so

Honestly I think they are just using the same manual and labels for all of their liners. And as I said almost all other types direction matters allot

 

[bholler]

what are the other types? I am really curious to understand what is the difference.

I will look into insulation.

I am very surprised to see that professional installer can make these type of mistakes, he mentioned nothing about insulation either.

There is 2 ply smoothwall stuff that is junk. It is directional.
There is midweight and heavy wall flex that use an interlocking joint. Both of those are directional.
There is rigid which is also directional.
The only other type that is not is welded seam light wall liner. And only one brand makes that.
Many "pros" ignore insulation requirements because it adds cost and time to the job. It doesn't make it right by any means but it is all to common

 

[tathspts]

Just spoke to SBI again over the phone and asked them about insulation and liner being directional.

They said insulation is not required unless I am living on the north pole. I am not kidding those were the words. He also said the liner is not a directional liner. He added same manuals and stickers are reused for all type of liners.

I feel this to be very unprofessional and weird to be honest.

There is 2 ply smoothwall stuff that is junk. It is directional.
There is midweight and heavy wall flex that use an interlocking joint. Both of those are directional.
There is rigid which is also directional.
The only other type that is not is welded seam light wall liner. And only one brand makes that.
Many "pros" ignore insulation requirements because it adds cost and time to the job. It doesn't make it right by any means but it is all to common

 

[tathspts]

bholler, what makes this type of liner not let the creosote spill out?

With this type of liner creosote won't spill out. That is what I am telling you. But it needs to be insulated for use with solid fuel. The instructions even say so

 

[bholler]

Just spoke to SBI again over the phone and asked them about insulation and liner being directional.

They said insulation is not required unless I am living on the north pole. I am not kidding those were the words. He also said the liner is not a directional liner. He added same manuals and stickers are reused for all type of liners.

I feel this to be very unprofessional and weird to be honest.

Liner insulation requirements are actually all about clearance to combustibles from the out side of the chimney structure. And yes their response is very unprofessional and irresponsible.

 

[Don.S]

I am also from Montreal and when i was looking at stoves all the stores i asked about insulation told me it was not needed. When i asked about clearances they had no clue what i was talking about.
It was a little discouraging to say the least.

 

[tathspts]

I feel you. I am starting to have a feeling more informed you are more difficult you are going to make your life and maybe life comes easier to fools?

Owning a house and dealing with contractors is by far the hardest thing I have done in my life. They simply do not care about anything. Sometimes I wish I could be like them.

I had a very hard time finding installer for this stove that I purchased myself. In theory drolet had list of installers listed on their website. I contacted almost with in 50km radius. Only one said he would do it, rest simply said we only install what we sell and drolet is out of their minds for listing our company on their website as installer. Best part they dont even sell drolet they want to sell you something else where they make more margins.

Later I learned that they give you a certificate of conformity after the installation which city requires. God forbid if I did this task myself, I am sure I will have not found anyone to issue me that certificate of conformity. Even though I would have done the better job than installer.

I told the guy why are you not installing the block off plate, he goes we never installed block off plate, we only stuff roxul insulation.

Hence I believe, more you know more stress you are looking for in life.

The way world seem to work is, let the professional do their job and take them to court if chit hits the fan. This seems to be widely accepted way of doing things around here.

</rant>

I am also from Montreal and when i was looking at stoves all the stores i asked about insulation told me it was not needed. When i asked about clearances they had no clue what i was talking about.
It was a little discouraging to say the least.

 

[BigJ273]

Just spoke to SBI again over the phone and asked them about insulation and liner being directional.

They said insulation is not required unless I am living on the north pole. I am not kidding those were the words. He also said the liner is not a directional liner. He added same manuals and stickers are reused for all type of liners.

I feel this to be very unprofessional and weird to be honest.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, i have never heard a good story from anyone with a liner that is not insulated. If you read this forum, almost every issue listed is caused by wet wood, and a liner that is not insulated. I agree with bholler on this one. This man knows what he’s talking about. Shell out the extra couple of hundred bucks, you’ll sleep better at night and your stove will perform a lot better.

 

[Supersurvey]

Its crazy how more and more experts know less and less.