Choosing a large insert - BTU Ratings

[kruger]

I've decide on going with an insert (I think) and need help selecting which one might work well. I'm not worried about heating myself out of the room, some people are. My trouble is determining the best heater for the spot. The BTU ratings seem to be all over the place for similar sized stoves and similarly rated square foot ratings. For example the Quadrafire 5100 insert claims up to 3,200 sq. ft and has a 3.0 box, but is only rated at 30,000 BTU. While the Lopi Freedom Bay claims 2,250 sq. ft. and has a 3.1 box, but is rated at 74,000. Why are these ratings so different? Which stove would throw more heat in the same condition/setup?

I have a box (pictured) that measures 32Wx25-3/4Hx15D(before it tapers; still 28"W @ 24-1/2D) I have a well insulated two story house what is relatively open in floor plan and has R60 in the roof with 2x4 construction. I live in SE Wyoming where we have long, cold, windy winters that can be in the single digits for weeks at a time with 20-50 mph winds. I'm looking for the largest insert that will fit, but am getting confused with the BTU ratings. I know these stove stats are produced at sea level with woods that have created large numbers and I'm going to get close to 70% of those stats if I'm lucky (i.e. if the stove is rated for 1,500 sq. ft., I might get something closer to 1,400 sq. ft. heated).

I'm looking at the PE Super, Buck 91 (don't really want CAT), Jotul C550, Lopi Freedom Bay, BK Princess, and Quadrafire 5100. The BTU ratings and sq. ft. ratings are all over the place, but these are some of the bigger inserts that fit my hearth. I really want the PE Summit, but it's nearly 35" wide and won't fit. I don't want to redesign the hearth, I just want the biggest producer of heat I can get.

Thoughts?

Video of floor plan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjCRYUsCSLE

(broken image removed)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[jeff_t]

Take btu ratings for whatever you think they are worth. You can only get so many btu's out of a piece of wood. You need to look at firebox size for output and burn times. Sounds like you're going to want the biggest one that will fit. Country Flame BBF is another big one.

 

[Todd]

I agree with Jeff, Look at the fire box size, manufactures can either go with the EPA Pine 2x4 EPA btu numbers or do their own cordwood test to boost the numbers up. If you can measure them yourself, some manufactures claim everything above the baffle in the fire box size. The Lopi or Blaze King would be a great choice imo. The Lopi looks better but the BK has longer burns and can be turned down to a lower BTU output if you start getting roasted out.

 

[mhrischuk]

Don't forget Hearthstone. I'm installing a Clydesdale now. A bit pricey though.

Here's an avatar for you.. (broken image removed)

 

[North of 60]

Rule out the BKs,Countryflame and the Buck. Not sure if buck has the large non-cat.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Buck does but it is an 8" connection. Model 94

 

[Swedishchef]

I agree with the above noted posts....don't worry about BTUs. From what you said, I believe you want a big firebox with a quality product. It's not a popular brand on this forum however Osburn make a very nice large insert, the 2400.
(broken link removed to http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=511)

Just some food for thought.

Andrew

 

[rwm001]

North of Sixty--- why do you rule out the princess--since you have one?? I have thinking about one.

 

[robertmcw]

We got a used Avalon Olympic Insert 1190 last year. It is not a cat stove. The house has about 1200 sq ft in it and it has a lot of windows (single glass). We live in Houston and the temperates are not that bad. If it less 60 degrees we burn wood but if more at 60 degrees outside we use the propane for heat. We paid less than $2,000.00 for the stove, the pipe, the cap and the install. We still must add wood about 4 – 5 hours to keep the house warm. We are looking a bigger house. If we do get a bigger house I think I would look at the Blaze King. I would zone the house so the rooms we don’t use can close down and the rooms we use would could move the heat about. I would look at an min 12 hour burn time to re-load.

Last year I did some math and it seems that you can get a lot of BTU’s from wood and it really costs less than propane to heat a small house if you wood is free (not counting the fixed costs for the log spiltter, chains, oil and gas for the chain saw).

I do cut my own wood.

Robert

 

[North of 60]

North of Sixty--- why do you rule out the princess--since you have one?? I have thinking about one.

The OP doesnt really want a catalytic stove. :sick: I love what I got. ;-)

 

[begreen]

You might want to check out the Osburn 2400. At 31"W it will be a squeaker of a fit. Osburn recommends a min 33" wide fireplace. Still I would speak with an experienced dealer about fitting one in there. It has a good reputation as a serious 3.2 cu ft heater.

 

[kruger]

Don't forget Hearthstone. I'm installing a Clydesdale now. A bit pricey though.

Here's an avatar for you.. (broken image removed)

Right! I didn't notice the wife's closet door was open until it was uploaded...not worth redoing!

Good eye...

 

[kruger]

If it less 60 degrees we burn wood but if more at 60 degrees outside we use the propane for heat.

Robert

If it's less than 60 degrees outside we open the windows and bring in that nice cool air! Just kidding. We don't light up here until it's into the 40s or we would burn all the time. It's 58 degrees out right now....August 14...8:00 pm.

 

[kruger]

With an insert and the importance of moving heat out of that box, would anyone factor in two fans over one fan? Some of these units have Two 130 CFM fans others only have ONE.

 

[ROBERT F]

Not to add more confusion, but one thing to look at is interior construction. Stoves that use standard size brick on top, bottom and size are usually less expensive to reline. Check pricing on baffle boards while looking for stoves. How easily damaged could they be? And honestly a cat stove would probly fit your wood type better than a non-cat. I heat 2 2800 sq.ft levels with 1lopi liberty free standing stove on each level. Feeding pine into those things every 3 hours gets to be a chore. Cat stoves would probly cut that to every 5 hours, and use much less wood. Any reason specific to a non-cat stove?

 

[kruger]

Fearful of any maintenance or replacement part issues. I also bring in a lot of locust and ash from NE, pine is only my first hour. Those hardwoods are used 75% of the time. Maybe I shouldn't be fearful of CAT...

 

[kruger]

You might want to check out the Osburn 2400. At 31"W it will be a squeaker of a fit. Osburn recommends a min 33" wide fireplace. Still I would speak with an experienced dealer about fitting one in there. It has a good reputation as a serious 3.2 cu ft heater.

I like what your saying here. I checked Osburn's install manual and found this:
(broken image removed)

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At 16.25" depth I am at exactly 32"W. That is just where the taper starts (14"D to be exact). The front of the opening is at exactly 32.25"W

Seems like it would go. Can't get anything bigger in there.

I'm amazed it's only $1,900. Why so reasonable?

 

[robertmcw]

Well if I do change to a cat, I think the costs for parts will be a good question from the dealer or a parts place. The cat needs a combustor from to time and other parts. The Avalon needs the tubes from to time and the gaskets need to replaced. I have heard here that the fire brick needs changed to time to time too. I love my insert and it fine for now. I really like it that I can use the cook top and use a trivet with a Dutch Oven for chili and spaghetti (some inserts can’t use an cook top). It looks in your fireplace hearth you have a lot space so you can fit a cook top if you want one. This year I will cook a whole chicken in the Dutch Oven and add dumplings. Since my wood is about free, I don’t worry about paying for wood and I can add wood when I want with no problems. I just get cold and add wood and go back to by business. I guess it is all a question of what options you want and where is your time and money is.

Robert

 

[dafattkidd]

WYO,

I have the Osburn 2400 and that thing is a beast. It's a true 3.2 cf firebox. I get 23" logs in EW, and 19" logs NS with no problem. You'd have to work pretty hard to damage the baffles, so no worries on that.

And here are the true numbers of the unit (I just measured it)

22 3/4 H
29 3/4 W
16 3/4 D

I squeezed this sucker into my masonry fireplace and it has been fantastic. If you measure back 16 3/4" from the opening of your fireplace and see what the width is at that point. I'm guessing you'll be pretty close. It may fit in there. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions about the unit.

Also worth noting*The firebox has a slight step up by the door that keeps ashes and coals from falling out when you open the door.

I hardly ever fill it up to capacity. I'm heating 1,700 sf of a drafty 70 year old beach house (this place was never intended to be lived in in the winter), and this insert heats my whole house. I hope that helps you. It was the largest firebox I could find at the lowest price, and has proven to be very well built. I'm not saying this is the best insert in the world, I'm just saying it has worked out great for me.

 

[BrowningBAR]

WYO,

I have the Osburn 2400 and that thing is a beast. It's a true 3.2 cf firebox. I get 23" logs in EW, and 19" logs NS with no problem. You'd have to work pretty hard to damage the baffles, so no worries on that.

And here are the true numbers of the unit (I just measured it)

22 3/4 H
29 3/4 W
16 3/4 D

I squeezed this sucker into my masonry fireplace and it has been fantastic. If you measure back 16 3/4" from the opening of your fireplace and see what the width is at that point. I'm guessing you'll be pretty close. It may fit in there. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions about the unit.

Also worth noting*The firebox has a slight step up by the door that keeps ashes and coals from falling out when you open the door.

I hardly ever fill it up to capacity. I'm heating 1,700 sf of a drafty 70 year old beach house (this place was never intended to be lived in in the winter), and this insert heats my whole house. I hope that helps you. It was the largest firebox I could find at the lowest price, and has proven to be very well built. I'm not saying this is the best insert in the world, I'm just saying it has worked out great for me.

Being in Long Island, how much space do you have for wood storage? Do you buy your wood, or do you scrounge? If you buy, what is your price per cord and how much do you burn per year with that stove. I know you bumped up from the Napoleon last year, I believe.

Just curious.

I enjoyed your progression from getting the 1100 to upgrading to the large Osburn.

I think this is the first time you mentioned that it is a 70 year old beach house. I find that to be pretty neat. Is it a good location? Do you use any oil through out the winter?

 

[dafattkidd]

BrowningBAR,

I have a small 1/3 acre lot. I currently have 6 cords of wood stacked on my property and I can't fit too much more without really imposing on our space. I scrounged 4 cords, then found a great deal for $100/cord c/s/d and bought 2 more- That is a crazy good deal. Mostly you'll find wood for between $150-220/cord. I think I'll burn 4 cords this year. I also burn a lot of construction debris so it's hard to gauge.

I live like 3 blocks from the beach. It is a pretty quiet town for Long Island standards. Very safe. Good school district. Super high taxes. A lot of young families. The house was originally a 500 sf beach bungalow that has undergone two phases of expansion. All of this happened before I bought it. I do burn oil for hot water and I have a basement apartment that I rent out that is heated by oil. Wood burning has reduced my oil consumption by about 60% so I fill up every 8-10 weeks in the winter as opposed to every 3-5 weeks. This house does not hold heat very well. I do small projects every year to reduce heat leakage. The house needs a lot of work but I'm a carpenter and we are patient so it gets done a little at a time. I do love it here, but it is a serious financial challenge to stay on Long Island.

My wife took this picture at the beach down the block. It's like an 8 minute walk from our house.

 

[Swedishchef]

You might want to check out the Osburn 2400. At 31"W it will be a squeaker of a fit. Osburn recommends a min 33" wide fireplace. Still I would speak with an experienced dealer about fitting one in there. It has a good reputation as a serious 3.2 cu ft heater.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

At 16.25" depth I am at exactly 32"W. That is just where the taper starts (14"D to be exact). The front of the opening is at exactly 32.25"W

Seems like it would go. Can't get anything bigger in there.

I'm amazed it's only $1,900. Why so reasonable?

Osburn is a Canadian Company. They are manufactured by SBI which is a company out of Quebec City: the capital of cold in North America. They make great steel stoves and some have cast iron doors (like my 2300 stove). They know what it takes to heat long and hot to keep the blood circulating.

Ask others about their inserts. I don't have one and can't elaborate on their heating capacities but lots of people are satisfied with them.

Andrew

 

[dafattkidd]

WYO I don't know why they are so inexpensive but this thing is built like a tank.

 

[begreen]

SBI stoves have always represented a good value, in particular their Drolet and Osburn lines.

 

[Swedishchef]

IMHO, I feel as though SBI stoves (Drolet line in particular) are as good if not better than the Englander series... Osburn are a step up. The Drolet HT2000 is one heating machine! For the price, it can't be beat.

Andrew