Cleaning may be over rated

[Ambient]

Just curious, we were having a discussion this morning over coffee, and the thought popped into the noggin: Heavy ash pellets are essentially less bang for the buck? IOW's, the ash is considered unspent fuel or waste material and therefore, pound for pound you get more BTU's from a cleaner burning pellet?

Something to consider when deciding to pick next years pellets. The 40 - 50 mile one way trip might have to be revisited?

 

[alternativeheat]

The cost vs cleaning is right where I'm at with my new stove. My old stove loved NEWP, now I hear they aren't a great pellet. I have three brands to try this year, I will decide if it is worth the extra $ for the better, lower ash pellets and go from there. I'm thinking it will be worth it to get the soft wood for the extra hundred or so it will cost me for the year.

To each his/her own. Not cleaning the stove routinely and annually would be similar to not bathing until you itch

the noggin: Heavy ash pellets are essentially less bang for the buck? IOW's, the ash is considered unspent fuel or waste material and therefore, pound for pound you get more BTU's from a cleaner burning pellet?

Something to consider when deciding to pick next years pellets. The 40 - 50 mile one way trip might have to be revisited?[/QUOTE]

Pellets are advertised as X amount of BTU per LB. Low ash is just less work. But alas so happens that often your high BTU pellets are indeed also low ash.
And your low cost high ash also low BTU. But I have seen high BTU and pretty high ash pellets too, Energex Hard Wood comes to mind. Last years lot of these I think ran around 8500 btu. And top clean ash pellet brands around 8700-8900 BTU. Not a huge gain but way less ash, thus less cleaning, vent brushing etc by going with the low ash pellets then.. And your low grade consumer pellets just plain suck, high ash and 7800 BTU for instance. yeah, you're gonna use more of those and have literally tons of ash over the winter.

 

[jimfrompa]

Excellent thread. I am now in the third heating season with my Mt. Vernon. Before I fired it up this year I finally got around to cleaning the chimney. What a surprise I got when I opened the clean-out door and saw a solid wall of ash! The thing was packed. Probably only had a very small amount of clear space to exhaust the stove. I vacuumed out the outside chimney, inside stove pipe, and cleaned out the stove. I figure all of that ash was about 7 tons of hardwood pellets - all premium. Power Pellets, Lignetics, Pennwood. I clean my stove and fire pot on a weekly basis including removing the baffle and brushing and vacuuming. Anyway, I'll be cleaning the chimney twice per year from now on.

 

[alternativeheat]

Excellent thread. I am now in the third heating season with my Mt. Vernon. Before I fired it up this year I finally got around to cleaning the chimney. What a surprise I got when I opened the clean-out door and saw a solid wall of ash! The thing was packed. Probably only had a very small amount of clear space to exhaust the stove. I vacuumed out the outside chimney, inside stove pipe, and cleaned out the stove. I figure all of that ash was about 7 tons of hardwood pellets - all premium. Power Pellets, Lignetics, Pennwood. I clean my stove and fire pot on a weekly basis including removing the baffle and brushing and vacuuming. Anyway, I'll be cleaning the chimney twice per year from now on.

My vent is 4" and 23 ft high. I clean it two and sometimes three times in a years time. I don't get a whole lot out but it's more about where it is concentrated, most of it seems to be in the gentle S turn that goes past the old smoke shelf of the chimney. I've never even come close to a backup but I can tell you the stove is happy with a clean vent.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

To each his/her own. Not cleaning the stove routinely and annually would be similar to not bathing until you itch

The other end of the spectrum is obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). You can scrub your skin till it's raw.
I am suggesting that cleaning of stoves shouldn't be in that category. Cleaning is over rated when you are cleaning because you are supposed to instead of because it is needed. As in most things, judgment is better than rigid schedules.

 

[Ambient]

The other end of the spectrum is obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). You can scrub your skin till it's raw.
I am suggesting that cleaning of stoves is shouldn't be in that category. Cleaning is over rated when you are cleaning because you are supposed to instead of because it is needed. As in most things, GOOD judgment is better than rigid schedules.

 

[Deromax]

I have a 4 inches venting, short horizontal out, T-cleanout, then 5 feet of rise. After my first year, 80 bags, I went outside to sweep the flu and found most of the ash to be in the T. It thought that the cleaning was useful but not absolutely urgent. So, for my setup and conditions, once a year is just about the right amount. There is no way I'm going outside in the midst of the winter, with a ladder, in 3 feet deep snow, to clean a flu vent!

Edit : I clean the firebox/firepot/exchanger tubes and empty the pan every weeks!

 

[rcook430]

I understand the op meaning. My p43 was purchsed last January. I cleaned the heck out of it weekly until I figured out it's not getting that dirty. I litterally take a paintbrush now and brush down the inside of the stove weekly and monthly I clean the vent pipe and it looks the same it did inside when I bought it. Plus I don't clean as much.

 

[Cory S]

Going to be giving my P61A a good inside wipe down and vacuum twice a heating season. Empty the fines box once a month also. Other than that, just a quick scrape of the burn pot once every 18-24 hours.

 

[PelletPirate]

I have been a fan of doing a good simple cleaning once a week. Its my Saturday routine, scrape the heat exchangers, empty the ash pan, scape the burn pot, wipe the glass. For me, it looks cleaner and I feel better that its running more efficient in my opinion. I would think that ash collected on the heat exchangers would eventually insulate it and allow less heat to go in the room.

 

[alternativeheat]

Going to be giving my P61A a good inside wipe down and vacuum twice a heating season. Empty the fines box once a month also. Other than that, just a quick scrape of the burn pot once every 18-24 hours.

Are you sure about this plan ?

My P61 gets cleaned completely on an as needed basis. I've had pellets bad enough that I couldn't wait till the following week to brush the stove all down, I did it on the fly mid week. Then on the weekend did the whole job, vac behind the blower hatch etc. But with Douglas fir wait a month . Never gone a whole season with out vacuuming, that would be a rather extreme plan I would think.

 

[Cory S]

Are you sure about this plan ?

My P61 gets cleaned completely on an as needed basis. I've had pellets bad enough that I couldn't wait till the following week to brush the stove all down, I did it on the fly mid week. Then on the weekend did the whole job, vac behind the blower hatch etc. But with Douglas fir wait a month . Never gone a whole season with out vacuuming, that would be a rather extreme plan I would think.

Yes, I am absolutely positive. MAYBE a vacuum session added if needed. I am burning LG Granules softwood, and they burn hot and super clean. VERY little fly ash also. Super quality pellet IMHO.....

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Yes, I am absolutely positive. MAYBE a vacuum session added if needed. I am burning LG Granules softwood, and they burn hot and super clean. VERY little fly ash also. Super quality pellet IMHO.....

That's what I have been burning. When I finish out the remainder of the pallet, I start the Cleanfire Pacifics that I bought for this season. I'll let you know if I think they are worth the extra $10/ton. I chose them because they are even lower ash and higher BTU/ton. On a basis of BTU/$ they come out a better buy.
Here I am improving on something that is already good enough.

 

[mikesj]

I've been running my p61a for 10 years. It's my provides most of my heat. I burn about 7 tons a winter.

I've made many mistakes over the last few years, but the worst was when I tried to hold off on cleaning for too long. I dumped the ashes a couple of times, but didn't do a thorough cleaning of the stove. Between the area behind the exhaust fan filling up with ash and burning some crappy pellets, the airflow in my stove started to be affected to the point that creosote began to form in my exhaust. It caught fire and burned the high temp paint off the exhaust pipe and started to melt the high temp sealant on the joints.

Since then I try to do a full cleaning every ton or so. Every week or two I shut the stove down and clean the heat exchanger and walls of the stove off. I think that even a small layer of ash on the interior interferes with heat transfer. I also scrape the burn pot every day or two just so the ash doesn't build up too badly.

 

[alternativeheat]

Yes, I am absolutely positive. MAYBE a vacuum session added if needed. I am burning LG Granules softwood, and they burn hot and super clean. VERY little fly ash also. Super quality pellet IMHO.....

I've been running my p61a for 10 years. It's my provides most of my heat. I burn about 7 tons a winter.

I've made many mistakes over the last few years, but the worst was when I tried to hold off on cleaning for too long. I dumped the ashes a couple of times, but didn't do a thorough cleaning of the stove. Between the area behind the exhaust fan filling up with ash and burning some crappy pellets, the airflow in my stove started to be affected to the point that creosote began to form in my exhaust. It caught fire and burned the high temp paint off the exhaust pipe and started to melt the high temp sealant on the joints.

Since then I try to do a full cleaning every ton or so. Every week or two I shut the stove down and clean the heat exchanger and walls of the stove off. I think that even a small layer of ash on the interior interferes with heat transfer. I also scrape the burn pot every day or two just so the ash doesn't build up too badly.

The time intervals of cleanings is very pellet dependent. CoryS mentioned LG, I've burned them and did a full stove cleaning every two weeks. Energex for instance create more ash than LG and I did the cleaning once per week. AWF Pure White Pine are very very low ash, I got away with a brush down every couple of weeks, daily look see inside the stove and monthly full cleaning. I suspect with AWF PWP I could go the season before needing a vent cleaning but thus far have never done that regardless of pellets used. Every couple of months I give that a swishing out. I just noticed that with DF pellets and AWF PWP I didn't get much out of it.

We once had a chimney fire decades ago when burning wood and quickly changed over to coal after that. I never want to relive that experience personally. Others can do as they wish. In all of my cleaning eposodes I have creasote only in very limited amounts in the clean out T cap and that's about it.

 

[Ambient]

Yes, I am absolutely positive. MAYBE a vacuum session added if needed. I am burning LG Granules softwood, and they burn hot and super clean. VERY little fly ash also. Super quality pellet IMHO.....

I also like these and whole heartedly agree with the description, but my price per ton has ranged $ 295/305 plus shipping. The dealer offered $30 a ton shipping . Yet, if I pick them up, with multiple trips the cost of a 50 mile trip and gas seems to be super expensive and more labor intensive that just doing a few more cleanings. The Maeders at $245.00 and a five mile trip to pick them up, put out heat but are so dirty.

 

[alternativeheat]

I also like these and whole heartedly agree with the description, but my price per ton has ranged $ 295/305 plus shipping. The dealer offered $30 a ton shipping . Yet, if I pick them up, with multiple trips the cost of a 50 mile trip and gas seems to be super expensive and more labor intensive that just doing a few more cleanings. The Maeders at $245.00 and a five mile trip to pick them up, put out heat but are so dirty.

Pellets are upside down right now, that's why so far this year I haven't burned any. Maybe mid winter to help out the boiler a bit, but I can't see how I would save any money at current pricing and oil at $1.85 gal and dropping.

Additionally, I didn't find LG to be anything special, they were OK in the mid season burning hot but in the shoulder season they left a fair amount of carbon on the burn pot due to low burns. I'd put them just below Okanagan Platimum pellets. Just they used to be lower cost than the Platinum but apparently no more.

 

[Cory S]

If my furnace was oil instead of LP, I'd be burning oil only.

 

[Ambient]

My alternative is wood or propane. Propane is outta sight here at $3 a gallon. The only plus here this shoulder season, has been the run of unseasonable warm weather which has rendered itself being served by burning seasoned saw mill slab wood available at $75 for a seven yard dump truck load. It burns hot but quickly needs to be reloaded several times every hour.

 

[alternativeheat]

If my furnace was oil instead of LP, I'd be burning oil only.

Propane is outrageously priced here too, we have that for hot water and cooking only. Last delivery I believe was over $3.50 a gallon. Stupid pricing for what ever stupid reason. Nothing that ' really" makes any sense to common man I'm sure.

 

[bcarton]

For those with 20- foot plus vents: I assume it's a two-story house. Do you get up on the roof to clean, or run a brush up from down below? I'm thinking of installing an insert, and this is one question which really has concerned. No way I'll get up on the roof mid-winter, or maybe ever at this point in my life.

 

[alternativeheat]

For those with 20- foot plus vents: I assume it's a two-story house. Do you get up on the roof to clean, or run a brush up from down below? I'm thinking of installing an insert, and this is one question which really has concerned. No way I'll get up on the roof mid-winter, or maybe ever at this point in my life.

I brush from the fireplace up. I haven't been up the ladder in a bunch of years, my adult kids made it disappear after I fell off and lived to tell about it. I even installed the liner from the bottom up, you get inventive one might say. And then my son came over and capped it. So anyway, I brush from the bottom up, gotta keep it turning with a drill. I then go out with binoculars and look to make sure the screen is clear on the topper. So far so good.

It's a good idea to have the shop vac running in the fireplace ( use a dust mask and gloves as well), it sucks the dust up that will fill that area pretty quick with out it. And the ashes drop into a spread out pellet bag, then I just close it up. Some spills of course but the vac is right there and I just clean up after. It takes five rods and at 23 ft ( including the topper piece) I don't quite get much of the fifth one in there. But the key is to keep the brush turning, almost spinning.

Also, the 4" brush I have fit pretty tight in the liner and would cause the rods to want to wind up, so I trimmed it a bit. it still cleans but isn't so snug.

 

[bcarton]

I brush from the fireplace up. I haven't been up the ladder in a bunch of years, my adult kids made it disappear after I fell off and lived to tell about it.

Thanks. Falling of the ladder or roof is exactly my concern. I haven't been up there in 5 years or so, and I'm sure not going to try it during the middle of winter.

 

[alternativeheat]

Thanks. Falling of the ladder or roof is exactly my concern. I haven't been up there in 5 years or so, and I'm sure not going to try it during the middle of winter.

We have had several insert owners in the forum report that they also brush from the bottom up FWIW. You will be in plenty of company !!