Close Clearance Alcove

p301 Posted By p301, Jul 26, 2017 at 3:34 PM

  1. p301

    p301
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    So I just opened up the wall of my old ZC fireplace as I am planning on turning the chase into an alcove for the new wood stove. I am pretty sure I am going with a lopi endeavor due to the close clearance ability. When i tore open the wall i have a span of 54" between the studs where 50" is required. I plan on removing the paper faced fiberglass insulation and replacing it with roxul and then installing 1/2" durorock and then either tile or cultured stone on the durorock. This would technically bring my clearance to under 50" (with the cultured stone 49") but someone please correct me if i am wrong that the clearance to combustibles would remain 54" as the 2x4 is the first combustible encountered? I am still nervous about being so close to the minimum clearance, but also feel that the durorock and will provide me with some R value before any heat gets to the studs. Would anyone be concerned with this installation. I could always go to a protected surface but dont want to complicate things and add cost to the install for no reason, I also thought about painting the entire inside of the chase with fire retardant paint before i put the new insulation and durorock in. Any thoughts/ suggestions/ ideas are all welcome
     
  2. begreen

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    The clearances are to the nearest combustible which would be the wood studs in this case. As long as you meet of exceed the minimum clearances as specified in the manual you will ok. Be sure the ceiling height is at least 7'.
     
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  3. p301

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    Thanks begreen

    Ok so no worries about the potential 48" clearance between cultured stone if my actual between the studs is 54

    The header will be 7' and the inside of the alcove will be at 8' any worry about too much heat being trapped up in the 1' recess in the alcove?

    Also is there a specific temperature that people look for where pyrolisis begins or that I shouldn't go over if i monitor the durarock walls with an ir thermometer.?

    Someone should really invent a strip thermometer that can be built into the wall that can monitor temperatures at the combustible

    I am still toying around with just putting a protected surface for peace of mind and the fact that the lopi is the only stove with clearances that close that doesnt require a protected surface. (unless you know of something else) if i hated the stove or i ever get a new one id hate to have to go through all this again just to get the new stove in the same spot.
     
  4. begreen

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    The Endeavor is a good stove. For comparison, the Quadrafire Millenium 3100 has around a 50" alcove width requirement IIRC. Might be worth looking at the Quad Explorer II also.

    A 1' transom at the top of the alcove will trap some heat. It's not the end of the world, but it heat will pocket in that cavity. Is there a way to vent this as part of the design? Regardless of stove, use double-wall stove pipe for lower heat emissions from the pipe.
     
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  5. Simonkenton

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    IMG_1022_zpsk8gxbx0c.jpg

    Install a heat shield. This hammered copper heat shield is easy to install, and looks great. Looks better in person than in this pic.
     
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  6. begreen

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    A heat shield is unnecessary if the clearances are honored. With the Quad or Lopi stove and the construction details being considered there is a good margin of safety.
     
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  7. p301

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    Is there a certain temperature to look for with an ir thermometer where you should start becoming concerned about pyrolisis

    I think i should be comfortable with the straight install I will have two additional inches clearance to combustibles on each side of the install. I will remove the paper faced insinuation and sheet rock up to 8' vertically and install roxul with durarock attached to the studs and depending on how i feel at the time i may paint all of the exposed wood behind the roxul and the studs with fire retardant paint. The durarock with the cultured stone should actually provide some reduction clearance if it were a straight install but it doesn't appear recognized by lopi for an alcove install but i am assuming thats only because they didnt test it, the way i look at it though it can only help

    If it looks like the stone or tile (whatever we decide) feels like its getting too hot i can fabricate a free standing heat sheild like simonkenton suggested and just take it down in the off season if the wife doesn't like it
     
  8. begreen

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    If the alcove were finished in drywall the temp on the wall shouldn't exceed about 165F. The cultured stone and cement board will provide an extra measure of protection. Pyrolysis should not be an issue here. Will the alcove ceiling also be covered with Durock?
     
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  9. p301

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    Definetly

    What about electric outlets for the blower and lights in the ceiling of the alcove any concerns with them? Are they treated as a combustable?
     
  10. begreen

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    If the electrical outlet for the blower is <12" off the hearth it will remain quite cool. Most of the heat radiated will be from the front and top of the stove and the stove pipe. I haven't read any issues with recessed can fixtures in stove alcoves.
     
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  11. Simonkenton

    Simonkenton
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    If you make a hammered copper heat shield, believe me, your wife won't want you to take it down in April.
    They are beautiful and women love 'em.
     
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  12. kennyp2339

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    Please keep in mind the stove my have certain clearances but the black chimney pipe also has its minimum clearance to, single wall is 18" all the way around unless it has a shield, double wall dvl is reduced to 6" all the way around, depending on your stove collar you may need to buy an appliance adapter for the double to fit properly.
     
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  13. kennyp2339

    kennyp2339
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    Those copper shields are so pretty imo, I never really seen much copper used until I went to an old school bar in Florida NY, they owners had the bar top, and the rear back splash all out of hammered copper, it was so nice, I just kept starring at everything.
     
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  14. bholler

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    Yes but how much does it cost? The last time i flashed a chimney with copper the materials were $300. I cant imagine a sheet heavy enough and big enough to be a heat sheild would be much under $1000. Then you have the fact that most new stoves dont allow for clearance reduction anyway and it seems like a waste. Yes in the right setting it is beautiful but to me the cost is prohibative.
     
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  15. Simonkenton

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    Most of the guys on this forum dislike hammered copper heat shields.
    Which is because, nobody besides me has ever used one.

    They are beautiful. I was buying copper sheets fifteen years ago, a 3 foot by 5 foot, for about 90 bucks. No doubt, costs more today.
    I cut 'em to size, lay them on a big timber, get out the ball peen hammer, and hammer away. It is fun.

    They look great! And, the girls really love 'em.

    But, if you want to use galvanized steel, or no heat shield at all, I will lose no sleep over it. Suit yourself.
    On my wood stove pictured above, it meets Jotul spec for clearance, with no heat shield. In fact exceeds it by one inch.
    But, those log walls felt too warm to me. I had this heat shield left over from my last wood stove, so I installed it.

    Hard to make anything look better in my beautiful new log cabin but that hammered copper heat shield is the frosting on the cake.
     
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  16. bholler

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    Absolutly no one has ever said they didnt like them. And dont be so sure no one but you has used one. I never made a heat sheild but have made smoke sheilds and several other things and have seen quite a few in use. I also just checked copper prices and they are about 1/4 of what they were 4 years ago when i did that flashing.
     
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  17. p301

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    Kenny Florida NY that's right around the corner from me i'll have to take the wife by to take a look at it was it slatterys or the copper bottom actually now looking at your profile im a 07462 guy too
     
  18. kennyp2339

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    Slatterys
     
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  19. p301

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    Sent my wife to look today..slatterys closed its doors march 22, 2017 just my luck! Anyone know of a place to buy or order copper it seems very expensive online
     
  20. bholler

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    Good i remodeled a restaurant for the same sean slattery here in central pa and he stiffed the gc for $180000 and me for about $35000. He is a dirt bag i am glad he is out of buisness there to. I just hope that doesnt mean we will never be able to collect.
     
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  21. bholler

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    His bar in ny was very nice though. And the food was good. But that doesnt make up for screwing us over.
     
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  22. kennyp2339

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    Wow, small world, I speak of copper bar top to a poster that lives practically in my back yard and you speak of the same bar owner who unfortunately skipped out on paying the bill, just amazing.
     
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  23. bholler

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    Yes it is. Not only didnt he pay but he has stretched out the lawsuit for years now hoping we will give up i guess. But the leins on his property in pa wont go away.
     
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  24. p301

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    Maybe i can buy his hammered copper off him and he can pay you. Well i think we actually settled on hammered copper i just got pricing 96 bucks for a 3x8 sheet of 24 gauge. I guess i can hammer it myself any suggestions? Since it will be light and easy to work with i will just install it as a protected surface instead of mounting it directly to the wall compared to cultured stone it seems to be faster work with, easier to install, cheaper to install, and ill get the benefit of making it a protected surface for barely any extra effort

    Now looking into the demoed alcove with the sheetrock and insulation out i have studs at 27" OC I will add a few to make them 16 OC minimum. Install roxul and durarock and then the copper with a 1" air space and 1" open top and bottom. Looking up through the second floor and where the chase comes through the roof i still have the same studs like 27" OC (expect for the house side where they are 16" OC) with no insulation and no sheet rock all i see is strand board and studs. Is it advisable to sheerock or insulate or install more studs up there or do you guys think its ok the way it is. Im not looking to do extra work for no reason but i definitely want it done right even if it means spending a couple extra bucks.

    I'll try to post some pictures in the next day or so if i can figure it out I'm only 37 and already cant figure all this technology out. I tell my wife everyday i'd be perfectly content if they never invent another damn thing until the day die. Actually they can take back the last 20 years worth of crap they invented too!!!
     
  25. begreen

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    I would insulate the alcove walls and ceiling with Roxul batt insulation.
     
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