Close Clearance Alcove

[p301]

Thanks begreen I am insulating the alcove walls and ceilings with roxul and installing durorock over it. The rest of the existing chase headed up alcove however has nothing inside it just strand board and 2x4's even on the house side all of the insulation is exposed inside the chase. I'm not sure of the code but i feel like the chase should be covered inside at a minimum on the house side with atleast one piece of 5/8 sheet rock and more than likely all 4 sides of the chase interior should be covered and there should be a 5/8 Sheetrock fire stop between the second floor and the attic space

 

[p301]

 

[p301]

So in the third and fourth image you can see looking up into the chase toward the second story there is only insulation against the house with no sheetrock does anyone know if this is typical or up to code, should there also be a sheet rock ceiling at the second floor level to act as a firestop?

Also do the hammered copper guys know what gauge they used? will a standard 24 gauge piece be able to stand off the wall on its own like a protected surface with the air gap on top and bottom or do you think i need something heavier or even attach the sheet to a second piece of durarock to give it rigidity

 

[kennyp2339]

That particle board with the chimney flashing is acting like a fire stop, probably bare minimum code for a zero clearance unit for our area (remember our town is on of the best when it comes to inspections, they leave no stone unturned. If your planning on re-using the existing chimney pipe, check and make sure its rated class a all fuel chimney pipe. http://www.efireplacestore.com/chimney-pipe-buying-guide.html

 

[bholler]

A chase done like that is standard and to code. But insulating the whole chase is preferable. Also i am curious why you are set on doing heat sheilds. With most modern stoves it wont give you reduced clearances anyway so i would just finish it as desired and as long as you meet clearance requirements you should be fine

 

[p301]

My wife went today to file the permit i wonder if they will make me get a demo one for the fireplace and chimney i ripped out

I know i need a new class A chimney i ripped out the old air cooled one and i am glad i did it looks like the pipe was awfully close to those studs at the chase cover. Glad i didn't go with the idea of trying to cram a zero clearance rated insert into the existing fireplace now that i saw what was up there.

The reason i wanted to make a protected surface is that i only clear the minimum requirement by 2" for width and am pretty close to the minimum for the back wall clearance. There is a significant reduction for clearances on the lopi endeavor as well as the hearthstone and jotul stoves in alcoves for protected surfaces so if its only a matter of getting a piece of copper that i was going to install anyway 1" off the wall and floor and ceiling why not just do it? i get a cooler wall temp and if i ever want to replace the stove with something different down the road i have way more options without ripping the whole thing apart

 

[begreen]

So in the third and fourth image you can see looking up into the chase toward the second story there is only insulation against the house with no sheetrock does anyone know if this is typical or up to code, should there also be a sheet rock ceiling at the second floor level to act as a firestop?

Also do the hammered copper guys know what gauge they used? will a standard 24 gauge piece be able to stand off the wall on its own like a protected surface with the air gap on top and bottom or do you think i need something heavier or even attach the sheet to a second piece of durarock to give it rigidity

There should be a firestop at the first floor ceiling level.
A 24 ga copper sheet will hang fine from the 1" standoffs.

 

[p301]

thanks begreen if that diagram is code i'll insulate the chase and install sheetrock for added protection.

 

[p301]

Permits finally came in and I am finally good to go.

The manual specifically calls for Selkirk model DS connector but i believe that the DS has been replaced by DSP connector and their new double wall smoke pipe only will fit into the DSP not the DS does anyone have any knowledge on this.

Secondly has anyone or does anyone know if the blower motor for the stove can be hooked up to a fan speed control switch and then just leave the blower on high and only use the switch to control the fan. If i am running electric to the back of the alcove id rather install a speed switch on the wall instead of bending down to adjust the blower

 

[p301]

Still working on fitting out the inside of my alcove after i found extensive been damage up near the attic

Is there any recommendations for the height above the hearth to mount an outlet for the blower? I'm assuming the electric box is treated just like any other combustible so as long as it is flush with the wall it will meet the clearances?

Is a metal box preferred over the plastic one although the outlet itself will still have a plastic face?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Is a metal box preferred over the plastic one although the outlet itself will still have a plastic face?

Why not get a copper outlet cover to visually echo your hammered copper heat shields?

 

[p301]

Thanks woody that is what i plan on doing actually i am going to bend up a little L piece and rivet it on the copper to it so protects the plug and the outlet and box. I was kind of more curious about the height that people put it at is it closer to the hearth or up further so it is in the back of the stove. I think if it was only 3 or 4 inches off the hearth it would stay cooler and have easier access but if it was standard outlet height it might get hotter being right behind the stove although it would look nicer to not see it through the legs of the stove

 

[electrathon]

Secondly has anyone or does anyone know if the blower motor for the stove can be hooked up to a fan speed control switch and then just leave the blower on high and only use the switch to control the fan. If i am running electric to the back of the alcove id rather install a speed switch on the wall instead of bending down to adjust the blower

Yes that will work.

 

[p301]

so im in the final stages here and decided to go with the hammered copper heat sheild inside the entire alcove. I got a great deal of 4 pieces of 3x8 20 0z soft copper sheets that seem to be hammering real nice. Id prefer to use hat track to give myself the one inch standoff but am concerned about the dissimilar metal copper and galv touching each other. The only other option i believe would be durock strips doubled up. does anyone have any experience with this? Should i run one continous strip down the studs 3" wide? or would 3" x 6" pieces work out better for the convection so there is air circulating around all sides of the standoff? any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[begreen]

Doubled 3" strips of Durock will be fine. They can be full length as long as top and bottom spaces between the strips are open. It's the vertical convection behind the panel that keeps the surface behind it cool. You could also use ceramic insulators if you prefer.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D1FXMU/?tag=hearthamazon-20
https://www.rfparts.com/insulators/insulators-glazedceramic.html

 

[p301]

Thanks begreen. I just possibly uncovered a major issue with my install. I have been carefully doing this project for months to meet all requirements and clearances in the manual ie 50" clearwnce for alcove. Today i looked at the lopi brocure and they had the width listed at 54 for an alcove then i downloaded the manual and it said 50" i went to the dealer and they looked on the dealer site and it said 50" then we pulled an actual manual for the stove in the showroom and it said 54". At the closest point in my build right now i think im about 53 1/2". They are going to call lopi on tuesday and see whats up but i am sick over this. The protected surface gets me to 36 but they said that it wouldnt be recognized because lopi only shows one method in their manual. Any ideas? Im ready to puke over this

 

[Sodbuster]

You are doing exactly what I did to get rid of our ZC fireplace, at the time I didn't see any other practical options. Still don't. I think you'll be happy with the end result. I filled my alcove with a PE Summit pedestal, and it has performed very well. I am having issues with heat getting trapped in the 1 ft space you mentioned. If you figure out a way to recover that heat, I'd be happy to hear about it.

 

[p301]

So i just got home and measured 53" between durock so technically 54 between studs so i am barely ok. I wish i had a little more clearance but the heat shields will give me peace of mind even though not recognized by lopi it cant hurt

Sod buster i lowered thr ceiling inside the alcove so its only up 4" from the header my alcove size allows me to have about 2" of stove into the room hopefully between that and thr blower i wont trap much heat.. im also fabbing up a box fan system with two or three computer fans that can run on my marine deep cycle when the power is out which i will temporally mout up near thr ceiling when the situation arises

 

[p301]

Thanks begreen the durock seems much easier maybe im not that smart but i dont see how on a 7' copper sheet that is very wobbly i get the screw to go through that little hole in the insulator even if i get it started before i stand it up looks pretty tricky

 

[Sodbuster]

Thanks P301, I wouldn't lose any sleep whatsoever about your side clearances, you meet the manufacturers specs and that is all that matters, there is a safety factor built in. With the heat shields, I think you'll find that even when you really have the stove cranking, the surfaces next to the stove will be warm to the touch at best, no danger of combustion whatsoever. At least that is how it is with my PE where I only need to have 16" from the edge of the stove to combustibles.

 

[begreen]

So i just got home and measured 53" between durock so technically 54 between studs so i am barely ok. I wish i had a little more clearance but the heat shields will give me peace of mind even though not recognized by lopi it cant hurt

Sod buster i lowered thr ceiling inside the alcove so its only up 4" from the header my alcove size allows me to have about 2" of stove into the room hopefully between that and thr blower i wont trap much heat.. im also fabbing up a box fan system with two or three computer fans that can run on my marine deep cycle when the power is out which i will temporally mout up near thr ceiling when the situation arises

Sounds like you just make it and are ok. The clearance is measured to the studs if cement board is on the walls. Don't lose and sleep over this. The shielding is unnecessary but will provide a very ample extra layer of protection.

 

[p301]

Big sigh of relief on another note ive decided to go with duratech pipe basically because of convience as its stocked at thr same place i bought my stove. The salesman is pushing the galvalume pipe since it is going to be in the chase and said it will last my lifetime he said i could even put a piece of stainless for the last section that is exposed if i want and i wouldnt have a problem with galv and stainless in contact with each other. I must admit i do feel more comfortable with all stainless its almost an extra 300 bucks am i crazy to consider it? I also worry about the gas from the galv in a chase exposed to the house i know if i weld Galv i feel a little woozy after ? Any thought ls or opinions?

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you are getting good advice. DuraTech is better. Galvalume is fine in the chase. I would just use the stainless jacketed pipe on the last section. The outer jacket of the chimney pipe will not get hot enough to cause outgassing.

 

[p301]

Thanks begreen So here is a picture of the alcove so far. can the durock spacers be run tight on the inside and outside corners or do you think i should just leave a little gap between the spacers and the corners so there is maybe an inch gap vertically for airflow?
Also how will a screw bite into durock alone as i would like my screw heads to be nicely spaced on the sides and the middle if thr shield but unfortunately the studs dont line up that way center wise (now i know for my next life to add in thr middle) . I did a test one just into durock where there is no stud and it seemed to hold well, What if i used a dab of liquid nail between all thr spacers would that be considered a combustable? Maybe ill put some on a piece tonight and give it the blowtorch test tomorrow

 

[p301]