Coaster, Warren , BeGreen, and Downeast I asked the questions

[elkimmeg]

I guess someone is monitoring our forum and making improvements. A year and a half or so, VC decided to redesign the door latch and handle of the Aspen. So if you had a newer model you would have the revised latch. I should have asked if there was a retro fit assembly, but d I did not

Warren I asked about plans for the Intrepid and they would not leak out any info to a public forum yet. The same response about any changes to the Resolute Acclaim

Nothing that can be reported yet in public.
DownEast
The line I got from the head of Vermont opperations was, they take care of manufacturing there. They are not involved in policy or dealer/ distributor arrangements
However they assured me they are listening and addressing faults. I did get the phone ## and names of the parties you should talk to about getting answers to past concerns.
Please PM me and I will supply you the contact info. That's the best I could do

 

[wg_bent]

So it sounds like a stay tuned for now on the Intrepid.

Thanks Elk. I appreciate your asking!!

 

[elkimmeg]

Warren I own one (Intrepid) does a great job heating my family room room due to the warmer weather and the larger heat load my Encore produces heat from the encore filter up here.
This never happened with the Resolute Acclaim. It's 67 now without any heat except from the Encore on the lower level coming up the open stairs
No more patronization a manufacture or stove model, but this is what is happening. The Encore took heating to the next level.

 

[wg_bent]

Warren I own one (Intrepid) does a great job heating my family room room due to the warmer weather and the larger heat load my Encore produces heat from the encore filter up here.
This never happened with the Resolute Acclaim. It's 67 now without any heat except from the Encore on the lower level coming up the open stairs
No more patronization a manufacture or stove model, but this is what is happening. The Encore took heating to the next level.

So your family room is on a upper floor, Encore lower? How much space is the Intrepid heating by itself?

 

[begreen]

I'll be happy to see what improvements are coming. Especially if they can increase heat shielding, while maintaining heat output. Had they done that I would have probably been burning an Encore too.

 

[elkimmeg]

BeGreen the new non cat Encore has the rear and bottom heat shield it is part of the listing approved by
UL they cannot sell one without the shields

 

[begreen]

Am I reading their specs right? It seems to say 25.5" corner clearance to combustibles for the NC Encore and 24.5" for the Cat Encore with rear shield. For point of reference, the Castine corner clearance is 11" with double-wall pipe and rear shield. The PE Spectrum is 4" with double-wall pipe.

 

[elkimmeg]

BeGreen here is the problem the secondary burn chamber is located at the back of the stove. In the case of the Non Cat Encore inside that burn chambet the temps run up to 1700 degrees
VC had to include the heatshield to get the clearances listed approved. 82% effeciency and .7 grams per hour means some serious burning occuring in there. I guess trade offs have to be made as far as reducing clearances. Then you might ask well other stoves have secondary burning some have rolls of airt ubes on the top. but none other has approached 82% and .7

More effecient stoves can be made, at the expense of draft. Look here, modern stove practically require separate insulated liner, to opperate properly. On the forum, how many post are draft related?

 

[begreen]

That makes sense Elk. However, it does look like they came up with a everburn stove that has better clearances. I hadn't looked at the CDW stoves before, but the large CDW stoves is able to acheive much closer clearances by eliminating the top load and using firebrick. Is that correct?

VC posts some impressive stats, though they confuse me. The non-cat Encore is listed as .7 gm/hr, 10 hr. burn time and 68% efficiency. The cat-Encore, which touts longer burn time in the literature, lists 1.6 gm/hr., 9 hr. burn time and 76% efficiency. Is this a typo or over-hyped marketing dept.? Given these stats, why would one prefer the cat vs non-cat?

I suspect that the cat version is able to produce higher heat over a longer period of time, but there is no indication of this in the literature. Overall listed burn time is shorter. Does the cat version produce more usable heat at the expense of emissions and a shorter burn time?

 

[elkimmeg]

The non-cat Encore is listed as .7 gm/hr, 10 hr. burn time and 68% efficiency

correction 82%

The cat-Encore, which touts longer burn time in the literature, lists 1.6 gm/hr., 9 hr. burn time and 76% efficiency. Is this a typo or over-hyped marketing dept.

part of the claim is based when the stove model was certified the non cats recently the cat Encore I believe is due for re- certification July 2007

Since it passes EPA certification now no modification need to be done just submit the original spect re certify and move on A lot of companies may tweak ther model just before re-certification
There is a super Cat bombustor has reduced light off to even lower temps thus burning off even more of the inital particulated and also provides additional heat from this increased burn off.

Then ther is the air injection system that the new encores have that could be infused into the cat stoves. The new super cats cost of production has to be lowered to make them feasible for mass production there cats are not cermanic but using a pattern and air flow using stainless steel.

One might also note that the cat is listed for 47,0000 buts and non cat for 40,000 that 7000 btus or 18% more heat is due to the cat combustion these are not new marketing numbers but numbers proven over a 20 year period and 5 re-certifications.. Also interesting the dutchwest everburn technology is tested to 1.2 grams I asked abou that . the answer was that was tested before additional improvements were made to the Encore . I then asked if these improvements had been adapted to the Dutchwest and the answer was yes but since the stove is certified unless they want to pay for re-certification they are using the certified specs. UL an the Epa dictate a lot to manufactures Did you know how they test the glass.

a 4 pound steel ball is held waste high and released smacking into the glass if the glass cracks or breaks the testing is over $20000 gone and $20000 more to reschedule the test it takes $120k for complete certification not counting engineering ect prior to certification testing

 

[begreen]

I didn't make it up, honestly. 68% is what is listed on VC website.

(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=169)

 

[Gunner]

Am I reading their specs right? It seems to say 25.5" corner clearance to combustibles for the NC Encore and 24.5" for the Cat Encore with rear shield. For point of reference, the Castine corner clearance is 11" with double-wall pipe and rear shield. The PE Spectrum is 4" with double-wall pipe.

WOW, 24-25" clearances...these things require there own area code. I imagine that is a huge limiting factor for alot of people, I don't care how nice the stoves are. With clearances, the stove itself plus ember protection this stove could easily eat up 60-70sqft of living space.

 

[elkimmeg]

what you talking about you code requires 48" to combustiables to start with ours is 36" and with An NFPA reduced enclosure all stoves
can be reduced to 12"

 

[Gunner]

Elk, ya lost me.

 

[elkimmeg]

All stoves can be moved closer to combustiable wallls Acording to NFPA211 All stoves can be no less tha 12" from combustiables,
if building a compliant wall protection in front of the combustiable wall

One can reduce clearance by building a non combustiable wall with one i free flowing air space infront of the combustiable wall.
In essence I saying any stove can be placed as close as 12" with an code compliant combustiable protection wall in place

Actually there are two factors that govern reduced clearances to combustiables ,the stove placement and the distance of the vent pipe.
If using single wall pipe vent pipe 18" is code. A reduction can be made to 12", if a pipe shield iis used or the continuation of the reduction wall extends behind the pipe
or double wall connector pipe is used

 

[Gunner]

I understand the ability to use wall protection reduces clearances, but still maintain that, this is a deterrent to many buyers.

 

[elkimmeg]

Not stove model or manufacturer, I thought it imformative to let others know that clearance can be reduced by building protection walls.

You are correct some stoves are tested and listed to be placed closer than the VC models mentioned. In my case, mine are placed in front of thick masomry walls,
that are part of the fireplace chimney. These walls are not combustiable so no clearance distances apply.
I have yet see a wood stove burn through 38" of solid stone and masonry