cold start: Possible to have too much kindling, in particular with PE baffle?

[mar13]

My goal is to achieve a clean burning fire as quickly as possible using a top down fire. I figure that comes down to heating the flue as quickly as possible (discourage condensation/creosote, get good draft) and then the stove (enable secondaries, thus less creosote/pollution/waste). I've searched through old threads about if it's possible (without trying anything crazy) to heat a cold steel stove up too quickly and, within reason, I believe not.

So I'm planning on going heavy with the kindling next time to get things going hot ASAP, then let their embers take care of the bigger logs down on the bottom. With total fuel load not being great, I'm not so concerned about over firing the stove as I am about possibly warping my new PE's baffle. So any thoughts out there about (1) going heavy on kindling and (2) warping the baffle just from quick kindling heat?

The idea of the heavy kindling cold start came from the EPA report for the Jotul F54 V2. (page 521) They used 10 (!) lbs of kindling and start-up fuel pieces. I've included some of that report below.

I'm not a 24/7 burner, thus cold starts are a way of life for me. This is also my first season with a Kindling Cracker, so for now making more kindling doesn't bother me.

Thanks.

(I failed at trying to copy the page from the Jotul 45v2 epa report which included pictures. Here's some text from page 521 of that report.)

High Fire with a Cold Start

To start the fire from a “cold” stove:

1. Cut and split 12 kindling pieces 16 inches long. Half of them should be approximately ¾ inch
square, the rest ½ inch square. Cut and split 4 kindling pieces 12 inches long, about ½ inch
square. The kindling should be very dry and weigh approximately 3.5lbs

2. Cut and split 8 start-up fuel pieces 16 inches long and 1 ½ inches square. Cut and split 4 start-up
fuel pieces 12 inches long, two 1 ½ inches square and two that are ¾ inches square. These can
be split from larger fuel pieces that are in the range of 19-25% moisture (Dry-basis). The total
weight of the start-up fuel should be approximately 6.5 lbs.

3. Arrange the start-up fuel pieces in a grid on the bottom of the firebox with short pieces side to
side and long pieces running front to back. First on the bottom the larger 12 inch pieces side to
side about 10 inches apart. Next place the 4 larger 16 inch pieces front to back on top of the 12
inch pieces. Next the 2 remaining cross pieces and the 4 remaining long pieces on top.

4. Next arrange the kindling pieces in a similar grid pattern with the larger pieces first followed by
the smallest.

 

[saydinli]

Don’t over think it. Big splits on bottom, medium next, kindling on top stacked in a grid. . Place some rolled up newspaper on top and light ‘er up. You can place a fire starter cube under the kindling on one of the medium splits as well to help it along.

The most important ingredient in all this is the dry seasoned wood.

You wont warp the baffle that easy on a cold start. Just watch your flue temps during startup to prevent a run away fire. Thats what’ll warp your baffle.

Go out every 5 -10 mins or so and take a look at your chimney to see when the smoke stops. That’ll give you a good idea on how the burn is going.


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[mar13]

Don’t over think it. Big splits on bottom, medium next, kindling on top stacked in a grid. . Place some rolled up newspaper on top and light ‘er up. You can place a fire starter cube under the kindling on one of the medium splits as well to help it along.

The most important ingredient in all this is the dry seasoned wood.

You wont warp the baffle that easy on a cold start. Just watch your flue temps during startup to prevent a run away fire. Thats what’ll warp your baffle.

Go out every 5 -10 mins or so and take a look at your chimney to see when the smoke stops. That’ll give you a good idea on how the burn is going.


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What you described is exactly the way I've been doing it so far. Perhaps I should leave good enough alone. (Procrastinating on this forum can encourage me to think too much about it all!)

 

[FPX Dude]

Do NOT skimp on kindling, I used to use it just to get the mediums and others started and burning. Now I make a big "lincoln log style" type base, with twice as much kindling, and WOW the heat output is crazy better. The faster you get up to 1k+ in the cat and then control the stove the better.

 

[myth83]

I am also a newbie, not an expert - but I think I start picking up the technique for a good start from cold.

I am too, like you - am not a 24/7 burner, as my fireplace is only to supplement my central heating or when the furnace is unable to run on emergencies.

I also happen to have a Jotul, it is not a stove but a fireplace insert.

About the amount of kindling- I am too (wait for it..) like you - bumped my head against the wall trying to figure out how to setup my cold start load, how much kindling to use etc..

In general, I have noticed that first of all, the quality of the kindling is very important, for an example: one time some bits of my kindling were not dry enough (or so it seem to look like), so they didn't start as quick and as hot, resulting in having a hard time to start the larger splits below- so I would say, first thing is really dry and good quality kindling material.

Next is about quantity- I have noticed that too little kindling is no good for a cold start (not a surprise), so I put a handful (around 10 pieces in a grid structure over the splits below, and my pieces are mixed finer and thinner and also a few "fat" kindling pieces), in the middle of the kindling stack I position a fire starter, where I live it is popular to use a natural product made entirely of wood shavings and natural wax - that works well. Yes I know, I do not use a crazily large amount of kindling but I am still experimenting with how "large" amount is enough and not too much.

I think that it also depends on starting draft from the chimney, position of air inlets of the stove (I open both wide open for starting).

I am also a fund of the concept of the top-down burn, so far it works good for me.

As a final note I will also share that sometimes you organize everything tip-top, the kindling burn fast and hot but than the splits below fail to start quick enough and you end up with a struggling fire (once I had to throw another 2-3 pieces of kindling to assist the fire to pick up), so I guess that one should also make sure the splits that are below the kindling are not too large (required more heat to start) and are very dry. I have been told that on a cold start, firewood that is not very dry, will have a hard time to burn (while when the firebox is up to temp. even a dry-ish split will pick up and burn, even if burning it is not the right thing to do since it harms your chimney and the environment)

My 2 cents

 

[saydinli]

What you described is exactly the way I've been doing it so far. Perhaps I should leave good enough alone. (Procrastinating on this forum can encourage me to think too much about it all!)

Yup. Make sure you have enough dry kindling , 6-7 pieces on top usually does it if you’re wood is properly dry and seasoned.
If you can, place your wood split side up when lighting top down. The embers that fall from the kindling will light the splits faster as apposed to landing on the bark side.

Have a looks at this site. Lot of great info on wood burning.

Woodheat.org

This video is from that site on how to start up.

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[Woody Stover]

My goal is to achieve a clean burning fire as quickly as possible using a top down fire. I figure that comes down to heating the flue as quickly as possible (discourage condensation/creosote, get good draft) and then the stove (enable secondaries, thus less creosote/pollution/waste). I've searched through old threads about if it's possible (without trying anything crazy) to heat a cold steel stove up too quickly and, within reason, I believe not.
So I'm planning on going heavy with the kindling next time to get things going hot ASAP, then let their embers take care of the bigger logs down on the bottom. With total fuel load not being great, I'm not so concerned about over firing the stove as I am about possibly warping my new PE's baffle. So any thoughts out there about (1) going heavy on kindling and (2) warping the baffle just from quick kindling heat?

I guess it's better to burn up some kindling to get up to temp, than to burn up too much of your bigger splits in the load.
The baffle seems robust so I wouldn't worry about it too much...within reason, like you said.
The baffle on ours is slightly bowed down in the middle already, anyway, and we haven't fired it very hard. That sag in the center leaves the baffle touching the rear rail only in the center, and lets some secondary air through the gaps between the baffle and rail on either side of where it's touching. I can see it burning back there sometimes, but that may be a good thing, keeping some heat further back in the box instead of generating it up closer to the flue exit. I'll try to get a pic some time but when it burns in the back like that, there are usually secondaries in the front as well. It will be hard to show in a pic the flames in the back.

 

[firefighterjake]

I kinda fall into the whole Koyaanisqatsi type of starting a fire.

I put some medium to large splits into the firebox with some medium to smaller splits on top. I then grab some kindling -- 3-4 large pieces or if I am burning up the cedar shakes from my garage that I tore off last year a handful of them on top. I crumple a few newspaper sheets and light.

I don't get too particular on the placement or exact number count.

 

[EbS-P]

I’m in the more the better camp. I do think when you close the door matters. Too soon and my paper doesn’t burn hot enough to light all the kindling uniformly. To late and I think I draw too much cold air and temps don’t rise as quickly. Way to late and I have a raging fire and could overfire.
I use kindling on warm reloads too. handful on the bottom and top lights off the secondaries very quickly.