Concerned future hearthstone owner

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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
6" I do split in half. I have a three-year shed, so I shouldn't need to, but I like a flat face on my firewood. Allows me to pack it tighter in the stove and thus achieve longer burns.

It is true that you can do small fires in a big stove but not the the reverse...

If you can hold off, get enough wood split and stacked for two years out now (as in before May or so), and get a modern stove in two years, that'd work. Modern stoves do not do well with wood that's wetter. Your older one will keep you warm in the mean time, and you'll be much happier with the new stove.

(And then next year, cut split stack only the quantity needed for the one season two years after.)

Slab cut offs are the same as splits regarding drying characteristics, imo, but others may have better things to say there.
 
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066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
Good move skipping soapstone. I had one and other than looks, regretted choosing it for a stove material.

Does anybody with a lopi liberty actually get 12 hour burns? It’s a big stove and will make a ton of heat if you load it fully. Coming home after a 12 hour shift to a warm home and hot stove is a challenge for most stoves.
Good move skipping soapstone. I had one and other than looks, regretted choosing it for a stove material.

Does anybody with a lopi liberty actually get 12 hour burns? It’s a big stove and will make a ton of heat if you load it fully. Coming home after a 12 hour shift to a warm home and hot stove is a challenge for most stoves.
Soapstone sounds good but it seems in real life to be less than optimal.

That’s another part of my desire to have the largest fire box I can possibly manage. In my mind, more fuel=more heat, coals, longer burn times etc. Am I wrong about this? I don’t necessarily expect a warm house and warm stove per say, but surely there’s enough coals left after 12 hours to throw some wood on and get a fire going right?

On another subject, you’re a lucky man living by ranier. I lived in eastern Washington for a year and spent several weekends there. Rode dual sport dirt bikes all around Leavenworth and Moses lake. Beautiful country up there. I just couldn’t afford it. People talked about $50,000 in permits to build a house there. I don’t have that in my entire house 🤣
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
6" I do split in half. I have a three-year shed, so I shouldn't need to, but I like a flat face on my firewood. Allows me to pack it tighter in the stove and thus achieve longer burns.

It is true that you can do small fires in a big stove but not the the reverse...

If you can hold off, get enough wood split and stacked for two years out now (as in before May or so), and get a modern stove in two years, that'd work. Modern stoves do not do well with wood that's wetter. Your older one will keep you warm in the mean time, and you'll be much happier with the new stove.

(And then next year, cut split stack only the quantity needed for the one season two years after.)

Slab cut offs are the same as splits regarding drying characteristics, imo, but others may have better things to say there.
I’m definitely not ruling doing this out. When you say drying for two years is that live trees or dead standing? I don’t cut anything live for firewood, only dead standing or blowdown’s. Right now I’m running through the abundance of white ash that the eab killed. That stuff seems to be dang near dry dead standing. I need to get a moisture meter. Should have one already but I build with green lumber so I haven’t ever needed to check moisture levels.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
Dead standing is often still very wet. Ash dries quickly tho, it's an exception. One year split could work.

Yes, a moisture meter is a great tool to avoid chimney fires
 
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066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
Dead standing is often still very wet. Ash dries quickly tho, it's an exception. One year split could work.

Yes, a moisture meter is a great tool to avoid chimney fires
I clean my chimney at the end of every season and then around the end of December, I always have some flaky creosote but a quick pass with the soot eater cleans it right up. Just blows my mind there’s a whole different side to this wood situation. My entire life dead standing trees were prime firewood. Granted, red oak is prone to holding more moisture (especially in carpenter ant cavities) but as a rule it’s always been dry enough to work.
 

jalmondale

Member
Dec 16, 2021
140
NY
Soapstone sounds good but it seems in real life to be less than optimal.

That’s another part of my desire to have the largest fire box I can possibly manage. In my mind, more fuel=more heat, coals, longer burn times etc. Am I wrong about this? I don’t necessarily expect a warm house and warm stove per say, but surely there’s enough coals left after 12 hours to throw some wood on and get a fire going right?

On another subject, you’re a lucky man living by ranier. I lived in eastern Washington for a year and spent several weekends there. Rode dual sport dirt bikes all around Leavenworth and Moses lake. Beautiful country up there. I just couldn’t afford it. People talked about $50,000 in permits to build a house there. I don’t have that in my entire house 🤣
I'm curious what you disliked about soapstone - I've been really happy with mine. I can use it to extend burn times overnight, and it doesn't overheat the room it's in (300 sq ft room in a 1500 sq ft house). For a basement or vacation home install, I could see it being a poor choice of material, but it's been great as a 24/7 heater. Mine stores about 2 hours worth of heat (40,000 BTUs), so I do a shorter fire in the morning (burning hotter to heat it up), a medium length for the afternoon/evening (maintaining the temp), and then a long overnight fire (lower burn that releases the stored heat during the coaling phase). I'd be much less happy with a stove that needed 3 8-hour burns to keep the house temp pretty constant, vs a 6/8/10 schedule (obviously another solution is a larger firebox and a 12/12 schedule, but given my space constraints, that wasn't an option for me). It seems like the soapstone allows the 1.85 cu ft to function like a much larger firebox - I can easily relight from coals after 14 hours, although at that point the house will have cooled off a bit. This is all assuming overnight temps in the low 20s - when things get down to the low teens/single digits I do need to run the stove hotter, and on warmer days I can get the 12/12 reload cycle.
 

jalmondale

Member
Dec 16, 2021
140
NY
I have definitely reconsidered my thoughts on soapstone lol. The look is nice but I think after researching and seeing cracked stone I think an all steel stove is really more what I’m after. I already broke the news about no soapstone to the boss so I think I’m in the clear.
Fair enough, and Woodstock does actually have a line of steel stoves as well =P I've seen enough posts of 30+ year old Fireviews that are still in great shape that I'm not worried about longevity, but steel is definitely cheaper, and if you have the space for a larger stove you may not need the thermal flywheel effect.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
20,014
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Fair enough, and Woodstock does actually have a line of steel stoves as well =P I've seen enough posts of 30+ year old Fireviews that are still in great shape that I'm not worried about longevity, but steel is definitely cheaper, and if you have the space for a larger stove you may not need the thermal flywheel effect.

What a steel Woodstock lacks in “thermal mass” from stone it makes up for with the ability to burn slowly and actually provide heat from the fuel due to a well designed catalytic combustion system.

It’s really easy to give credit to the stone when it’s really just a low burn rate that provides such even heat. This becomes obvious when you try and burn a stone noncat stove. Pain in the rear trying to heat it up all the time.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
20,014
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Soapstone sounds good but it seems in real life to be less than optimal.

That’s another part of my desire to have the largest fire box I can possibly manage. In my mind, more fuel=more heat, coals, longer burn times etc. Am I wrong about this? I don’t necessarily expect a warm house and warm stove per say, but surely there’s enough coals left after 12 hours to throw some wood on and get a fire going right?

On another subject, you’re a lucky man living by ranier. I lived in eastern Washington for a year and spent several weekends there. Rode dual sport dirt bikes all around Leavenworth and Moses lake. Beautiful country up there. I just couldn’t afford it. People talked about $50,000 in permits to build a house there. I don’t have that in my entire house 🤣

Large firebox doesn’t always give you a long burn. Some modern stoves are designed to burn hot and fast so lack the ability to sip on that large fuel tank. For example, my big 3.5 cubic foot nc30 barely makes it overnight if I really try. Other brands are better about this so it’s worth asking about specifics.

I have done a lot of dirt bike racing in the state, last bike was a dual sport. It is expensive to live here but I was lucky enough to buy a home before the major real estate boom so I don’t need to suffer from that part of the inflation.
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
I'm curious what you disliked about soapstone - I've been really happy with mine. I can use it to extend burn times overnight, and it doesn't overheat the room it's in (300 sq ft room in a 1500 sq ft house). For a basement or vacation home install, I could see it being a poor choice of material, but it's been great as a 24/7 heater. Mine stores about 2 hours worth of heat (40,000 BTUs), so I do a shorter fire in the morning (burning hotter to heat it up), a medium length for the afternoon/evening (maintaining the temp), and then a long overnight fire (lower burn that releases the stored heat during the coaling phase). I'd be much less happy with a stove that needed 3 8-hour burns to keep the house temp pretty constant, vs a 6/8/10 schedule (obviously another solution is a larger firebox and a 12/12 schedule, but given my space constraints, that wasn't an option for me). It seems like the soapstone allows the 1.85 cu ft to function like a much larger firebox - I can easily relight from coals after 14 hours, although at that point the house will have cooled off a bit. This is all assuming overnight temps in the low 20s - when things get down to the low teens/single digits I do need to run the stove hotter, and on warmer days I can get the 12/12 reload cycle.
Honestly it comes down to durability for me on the soapstone. The idea of thermal mass and allowing the stove to radiate heat after the fire burns down was one of the big selling points for me. That and matching our other stove. But after reading many different accounts of cracks, and then considering that the stoves are cemented together, coupled with the fact that hearthstone at least has pretty marginal customer support and extremely long wait times for parts. In my house I literally can’t be down for even a day. Like I don’t have a backup currently besides my tiny fire box cook stove. And then in 20 years when something does eventually break. What if the company is long gone? Where in the world am I going to find a piece of soapstone? I can go out to my scrap pile and cut off a chunk of steel to patch together a steel stove. I can certainly appreciate the good qualities of soapstone, that’s why I have one ordered. But I just am concerned about durability over the long term.
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
Fair enough, and Woodstock does actually have a line of steel stoves as well =P I've seen enough posts of 30+ year old Fireviews that are still in great shape that I'm not worried about longevity, but steel is definitely cheaper, and if you have the space for a larger stove you may not need the thermal flywheel effect.
My grandpa had a pretty close to 30 year old hearthstone that he absolutely loved and bragged about how great it was. Another reason I considered soapstone. But it was a non epa stove. I’m also slightly concerned I would be on the wrong side of the flywheel effect for the next two years while I get my house insulated lol.
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
Large firebox doesn’t always give you a long burn. Some modern stoves are designed to burn hot and fast so lack the ability to sip on that large fuel tank. For example, my big 3.5 cubic foot nc30 barely makes it overnight if I really try. Other brands are better about this so it’s worth asking about specifics.

I have done a lot of dirt bike racing in the state, last bike was a dual sport. It is expensive to live here but I was lucky enough to buy a home before the major real estate boom so I don’t need to suffer from that part of the inflation.
I guess that’s something I certainly need to consider. I keep thinking I can control the burn but in reality it’s up to the stove manufacturer. So I think I need to go on an in-depth search on the lopi liberty. That stove has caught my eye and since the same dealer carries that stove line i feel like I’m not wasting their time. They’re friends of the family, sold my grandpa his stove 30 years ago, sold my parents their fireplace doors, and sold my cousin a gas insert for a fireplace we built for him. I’m trying to dig through the internet but the newest model seems so new that there’s not much information out there on it… I did join a couple Facebook groups today and already ran across one owner of one. This was his first stove so he didn’t have much to compare it too but seemed pleased overall.

I’m jealous, I could only imagine racing in the mountains! We just have hills here lol. I took my xr650r as far south as crystal crane hot springs out past bend Oregon, and took my mountain bike up past kettle falls. It’s amazing country. Lots of great memories for sure. If only it wasn’t my x wife I was living with I might still be there haha.
 
First winter with my Hearthstone Shelburne, coming from a Regency F2200 non-cat. The heat and appearance is stellar, everything else is abysmal.
I hate using this stove. The dealer isn't well-versed on the brand, and the manufacturer (80 mi from my home) is not responsive.
I love burning wood enough to have a hearth.com login. I am not thrilled with my duties this winter because of the inconsistent and unreliable behavior of the Shelburne.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,417
South Puget Sound, WA
Do you think a new thread about the lopi is appropriate or should I just stick with this one?
Nope, continue on. Reports for the new Liberty so far are good. They've made some nice improvements. One caveat, it is a real heat machine. When discussing, also ask about the Lopi Evergreen. That might be a better fit after the place has been insulated and sealed up, especially considering you have the cookstove for supplemental heat. Missouri winter weather is comparatively mild and 1300 sq ft is not a big space to heat once it's insulated.
 
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066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
Nope, continue on. Reports for the new Liberty so far are good. They've made some nice improvements. One caveat, it is a real heat machine. When discussing, also ask about the Lopi Evergreen. That might be a better fit after the place has been insulated and sealed up, especially considering you have the cookstove for supplemental heat. Missouri winter weather is comparatively mild and 1300 sq ft is not a big space to heat once it's insulated.
Will do 👍 one thing to mention, I will be eventually adding on another 4-500 sq ft on the same side of the house as the stove, and it will have a very significant amount of glass. (Did too good of a job keeping the sun out to keep my house cool in the summer, now all my house plants and vegetable starts really struggle without grow lights) and I wouldn’t mind an extra bedroom and half bath. Also my ceilings are a bit unconventional, so my house will function like it has 17’ tall cathedral ceilings. Eventually the 2x10 bottom cords of the trusses will be wrapped in red oak as well. It’s more work but I put drywall in every day, I want something different lol.

5FF6A067-4EF8-4D5E-863D-23945C05F9B9.jpeg
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
First winter with my Hearthstone Shelburne, coming from a Regency F2200 non-cat. The heat and appearance is stellar, everything else is abysmal.
I hate using this stove. The dealer isn't well-versed on the brand, and the manufacturer (80 mi from my home) is not responsive.
I love burning wood enough to have a hearth.com login. I am not thrilled with my duties this winter because of the inconsistent and unreliable behavior of the Shelburn
I’m sorry to hear about that. I just dang near made the same mistake. It’s so hard with stoves! Relatively little information with hundreds of models to choose from! The dealers don’t know, they all probably have stoves at home but how could they test all the new models. Very glad I found this forum before I messed up big time…
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,254
central pa
I really think. Keeping your existing stove as long as it's still functional or getting a different stove used for cheap untill you get the house insulated and sealed up well might be the best option. After the house is insulated properly then get the proper stove to match your heating needs. If you get one to match your current needs it will be oversized once everything is insulated well. And an undersized stove will be very frustrating and you could end up damaging it by pushing it to hard.
 
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BKVP

Minister of Fire
I saw people mention blaze king for long burn times, like the look of the bk 40 but i unfortunately just have a 6” flue.
I would encourage you to be mindful that our stoves won't like green wood or as you wrote, "Water soaked rotten garbage covered in snow".

EPA wood stoves are tuned to burn wood that is 18-24% MC. These are the requirements within each of multiple test methods.

If you are unable to secure, store and manage fuel in sufficient time to meet or exceed these MC ranges, I'd suggest keeping the old smoke dragon. Regardless of the stove you purchase, none will perform to the same expectations you have of your current stove.

Given you are not too close to your neighbors, you may find that your best course of action....for now.

Once projects are in control or less numerous, build your wood shed and start collecting.

I'd really like to see the shed a carpenter can build!
 
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066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
I would encourage you to be mindful that our stoves won't like green wood or as you wrote, "Water soaked rotten garbage covered in snow".

EPA wood stoves are tuned to burn wood that is 18-24% MC. These are the requirements within each of multiple test methods.

If you are unable to secure, store and manage fuel in sufficient time to meet or exceed these MC ranges, I'd suggest keeping the old smoke dragon. Regardless of the stove you purchase, none will perform to the same expectations you have of your current stove.

Given you are not too close to your neighbors, you may find that your best course of action....for now.

Once projects are in control or less numerous, build your wood shed and start collecting.

I'd really like to see the shed a carpenter can build!
Haha I know that no stove likes rotten garbage soaked in snow. I may have been exaggerating just a bit there. The wood I burn and have burned most the time I have been alive is the driest dead standing wood that I run across. I have 25 acres completely covered in trees. Everything I cut is dead, lots of post oak, and white ash with a little red and black oak mixed in. But, there’s been times, especially my first winter I lived here that my circumstances were not great. No need to go into details but let’s just imagine moving into a shell of a house with pretty well the clothes on your back. In the middle of winter. I had a pile of really really nasty wood that was terrible. And it kept me warm when otherwise I was going to be sleeping in my sleeping bag lol. Yes it smokes like no other, yes it filled my chimney with creosote, yes I knew to keep it clean and so it wasn’t a hazard. But I know what this old stove will do if I need it too. As a lifelong firewood burner it was just a bit disappointing to learn that the new stoves simply couldn’t have done the job I needed them to do at that time in my life (in reality if I had a new stove then I would’ve just pulled the baffles out and let the smoke roll lol) but nonetheless, my old stove isn’t leaving the farm, I’ll freshen it up and use it to heat my shop.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,254
central pa
Haha I know that no stove likes rotten garbage soaked in snow. I may have been exaggerating just a bit there. The wood I burn and have burned most the time I have been alive is the driest dead standing wood that I run across. I have 25 acres completely covered in trees. Everything I cut is dead, lots of post oak, and white ash with a little red and black oak mixed in. But, there’s been times, especially my first winter I lived here that my circumstances were not great. No need to go into details but let’s just imagine moving into a shell of a house with pretty well the clothes on your back. In the middle of winter. I had a pile of really really nasty wood that was terrible. And it kept me warm when otherwise I was going to be sleeping in my sleeping bag lol. Yes it smokes like no other, yes it filled my chimney with creosote, yes I knew to keep it clean and so it wasn’t a hazard. But I know what this old stove will do if I need it too. As a lifelong firewood burner it was just a bit disappointing to learn that the new stoves simply couldn’t have done the job I needed them to do at that time in my life (in reality if I had a new stove then I would’ve just pulled the baffles out and let the smoke roll lol) but nonetheless, my old stove isn’t leaving the farm, I’ll freshen it up and use it to heat my shop.
New stoves are far more efficient and burn much cleaner. So you get more heat from each piece of wood. But with that added performance you get stoves that are more draft sensitive and whose performance will drop off much more with wet wood. Yes the wood will still burn and honestly it will burn as well as it did in the older stoves. But the heat output will be reduced much more.

Also with the complexity that comes with the added efficency they are easier to damage if abused. That's why I don't think it makes sense to upgrade to a new stove until you have the house insulated and sealed up.
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
I'd really like to see the shed a carpenter can build!
Unfortunately a lot of my time the past few years has been dedicated to damage control lol. Building my solar system, 70’ wind turbine tower making the house livable, getting a 3/4 mile driveway driveway passable and so many other projects that I can’t even remember lol. But we were in desperate need of a cellar to store our produce so only one real small shed so far I have gotten to build. All the wood came from this farm minus the door frame. 650 post oak shingles I cut 4 at a time on the sawmill lol. And then all the dirt bags, that took a bit as well lol. But it’s a start. Got my wood shed but it’s really just fourwheeler parking currently. Guess I gotta fill it up 🙄🤣

96CBA2B8-99CF-454E-A426-F1155D455590.jpeg 8F2F880C-F90A-475B-B1F4-8435006B48F3.jpeg
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
Unfortunately a lot of my time the past few years has been dedicated to damage control lol. Building my solar system, 70’ wind turbine tower making the house livable, getting a 3/4 mile driveway driveway passable and so many other projects that I can’t even remember lol. But we were in desperate need of a cellar to store our produce so only one real small shed so far I have gotten to build. All the wood came from this farm minus the door frame. 650 post oak shingles I cut 4 at a time on the sawmill lol. And then all the dirt bags, that took a bit as well lol. But it’s a start. Got my wood shed but it’s really just fourwheeler parking currently. Guess I gotta fill it up 🙄🤣

View attachment 293571 View attachment 293572
It's very hard to tell, but that appears to lack the open air circulation design to properly season wood. This website is cool for this very reason:

Ok folks, let's show 066logger some wood sheds!!
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
It's very hard to tell, but that appears to lack the open air circulation design to properly season wood. This website is cool for this very reason:

Ok folks, let's show 066logger some wood sheds!!
Haha that’s a cellar, definitely no wood shed 🤣. This is the wood shed. It isn’t finished yet but it keeps the rain off my four wheeler for the most part lol. I cut all the lumber for that with a chainsaw mill. Entirely too much work

CF88629F-402A-4467-94CD-70B620E4862B.png
 

066logger

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
37
Missouri
It's very hard to tell, but that appears to lack the open air circulation design to properly season wood. This website is cool for this very reason:

Ok folks, let's show 066logger some wood sheds!!
You’re from the city aren’t ya? 🤔🤣
 
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