Hearthstone Mansfield - Multiple issues/concerns

[pittpens24]

Hey all,
I'll Start off with a few stats:
Log Home heating 1200 sq ft of floor space(with 25ft cathedral ceiling)
Burning Oak, Ash and Maple seasoned 2 years - moisture content 14-18%(18 being a piece here and there)
Temps outside lately single to double digits with negative wind chills
Brand new Hearthstone Mansfield with ash pan (professionally installed)
Brand new 6"chimney liner (professionally installed) with the stove(20 ft high off of thimble)
Coming from a Vermont Castings Defiant with catalyst purchased back in 1999, 8" masonary flue(7" square inside 20 ft highoff of thimble)
North West NJ Area

I want to start off by saying that my wife and I are not happy with this purchase and do not know if it has to do with the new liner, stove or both!

Ash Dust - The VC was a top loader where as the Hearthstone is a front loader. One would assume that the top loader would make more "dust" in the house, but that is just not true. The Mansfield is absolutely brutal to say the least! The whole house is coated in a super fine powder-like dust - It is everywhere! Even on walls, sloped ceilings, mirrors and even got into our glass kitchen cabinets The VC let alot of smoke into the room when top loading. I hardly see anything coming out of the Mansfield when loading so where in the hell is all of this ash dust coming from???? This one has the optional blower which I know contributed to the issue - still not knowing how or why it would happen, but still is happening with it turned completely off. I am at a loss.

Starting fire from cold - VC was easy and awesome by opening the ash pan door to get it going. Mansfield not so great. Even with extra air from the ash pan door open, it is hard to get hardwood kindling going. By kindling, I mean kiln dried pieces from the wood shop I run so it doesn't get any better than that for starting fires. Once it is going though, the Mansfield is considerably better at retaining the coals to add wood. There is a sliding flapper on the ash pan for the Mansfield that i will be taking out at the end of the burning season. It is stupid as you need to slide it back and forth to get the ash into the pan below, but if an ember gets caught in there - then you can't shut the ash pan door until you get it un jammed - stupid design!

Heat Output - VC was amazing and ran at 1/2 throttle to 5/8 max if it was extremely cold as a general setting. Generally would go through 3 cords a year. Mansfield is totally different altogether - This thing has been running at full throttle 24/7 for the last month just to maintain 68-70 degrees in the house with the oil furnace kicking on overnight to help out once temp hits 65. The claim with this stove was it would burn much less wood and would burn much more efficiently. Normally with the VC, 3 cords would easily last into the middle/end of March. I am into my 3rd cord already with the Mansfield and will probably run out by end of next week or so. I do realize this has been an extremely cold year so there is that. What gets me is my dealer had told me that the VC was too big for my application and should have been running an VC Encore ( the next size smaller) at 3/4+ throttle for more efficiency. He also said the Mansfield would be too big and suggested the next size smaller(Heritage), however since I had to meet code, I could not have a side loader dictated by the size of my hearth bluestone. But here I am burning full throttle just to keep up. I did let it burn out completely before the extreme cold temps to check the Cats and they were clean and perfect(though they might have been clogged with ash). Again at a loss here.

Was I getting a better draft with the 7"id flue rather than the smaller 6"? I know soapstone is totally different heat then Cast iron but shouldn't it be about the same heat output once they are both at normal cranking temp? Its hard to compare apples to apples when everything has changed........

 

[kborndale]

Is the liner insulated?

 

[wetwood4life]

The real life folks I know with top loading VC say it never lets in any smoke. Maybe your draft isn't actually very strong, and the Hearthstones are more sensitive about it. Especially if kiln dried kindling won't go, it must be not enough air coming through the fire.

Do you have a probe thermometer in your flue above the stove? I installed one this year and it's been very insightful. Takes the dark art out of babying our Castleton. The stove can be hot on top, hot at the catalysts, great fire in the box - but flue temps end up way down, which kills the draft, and will cause the stove to falter within an hour if I don't adjust something.

More ash makes sense - the front door is closer to the ash bed, more likely to dust up than opening the VC's top.

 

[pittpens24]

Is the liner insulated?

Yes - or atleast the work order says it is........

The real life folks I know with top loading VC say it never lets in any smoke. Maybe your draft isn't actually very strong, and the Hearthstones are more sensitive about it. Especially if kiln dried kindling won't go, it must be not enough air coming through the fire.

Do you have a probe thermometer in your flue above the stove? I installed one this year and it's been very insightful. Takes the dark art out of babying our Castleton. The stove can be hot on top, hot at the catalysts, great fire in the box - but flue temps end up way down, which kills the draft, and will cause the stove to falter within an hour if I don't adjust something.

More ash makes sense - the front door is closer to the ash bed, more likely to dust up than opening the VC's top.

I should have worded that comment about the VC top loader a little differently - It had its moments when it would let a little smoke out, Was not a chronic thing. My point was that I could see it happening with the VC when it did, I do not notice any smoke from the HS - only if I add a piece or 2 to hot coals left in my wood bag from the night before , run out to get more and open the door to fill the stove once it is smoking.

I do not have a thermometer. Curious how one would install a probe type in an insulated double wall pipe?

Noted on the ash reference

 

[wetwood4life]

You have to drill a hole in the stovepipe, which is definitely nervewracking. The probe has instructions, but you drill a small hole all the way through (outer and inner), then re-drill the outer to make the hole bigger. The probe has a little collar to close up the outer hole, and it's all held in place with a magnet.

 

[begreen]

Whoever said the Mansfield would burn less wood, was blowing smoke. The Defiant was an efficient stove. Note that this winter is particularly cold so wood consumption will be up. With night time temps around zero, plus gusty winds, keeping the home heated solely with wood has been a challenge for many.

What is most puzzling is the ash. Is the blower always turned off before opening the stove door?

Note, it is definitely not a good idea to start a stove by opening the ashpan door. That has destroyed more than one stove base. Many manuals explicitly warn not to do this. Try top down starts next time.

 

[pittpens24]

Whoever said the Mansfield would burn less wood, was blowing smoke. The Defiant was an efficient stove. Note that this winter is particularly cold so wood consumption will be up. With night time temps around zero, plus gusty winds, keeping the home heated solely with wood has been a challenge for many.

What is most puzzling is the ash. Is the blower always turned off before opening the stove door?

Note, it is definitely not a good idea to start a stove by opening the ashpan door. That has destroyed more than one stove base. Many manuals explicitly warn not to do this. Try top down starts next time.

The blower was not initially turned off with ash the 1st time around. I vacuumed the ceiling and walls thinking this was the issue. Turned it off completely when loading and still the ash was out of control. Now I have it off completely and it is better but now lose the ability to have the fan on at all.
I get that the ash pan method is a bad idea if you are an idiot - been doing that for the last 27 years and haven't melted one down yet using the common sense method lol. Never heard of a top down start and didn't even know that was possible, but gonna try it now just to see......

 

[begreen]

Top down lighting is my go-to method now. It's easier to control the fire, there is much less smoke on startup, and I think the burns are longer for our stove.

Can you post some pictures of the installation of that big rock?

 

[Dieselhead]

Are you running a steam style humidifier in the house? Those are known to leave a coating on household items. Just lake sure it’s ash before condemning the stove.

 

[pittpens24]

Top down lighting is my go-to method now. It's easier to control the fire, there is much less smoke on startup, and I think the burns are longer for our stove.

Can you post some pictures of the installation of that big rock?

Will Def try that next time I have to cold start ty.
Please see attached pics

 

[pittpens24]

Are you running a steam style humidifier in the house? Those are known to leave a coating on household items. Just lake sure it’s ash before condemning the stove.

No. Running a cold air style but had for years and never had an issue at 4 gal of water a day

 

[Pinesmoke]

Thread 'New Mansfield lll observations pros and cons.'

Dec 11, 2023

Started learning this girl and I thought this thread could collect information on this stove.

Coming from a 18 year old non cat VC Dutch West stove this EPA stove has been a trial so far in figuring her quirks out but we are getting to know each other. The stove is connected to outside air since this house is VERY tight except for fresh air exchange in the HVAC system.

In talking to my dealer, one that I've bought multiple stoves from, he said this stove is cold blooded at startup. He wasn't kidding. Leaving the door cracked until there is a lot of heat built up has been a must or...

• Pinesmoke
• Replies: 16
• Forum: HearthStone

This was a thread on the Mansfield when I started with the girl. Read through and I'll be able to get back here later. I'm up to my neck right now.

 

[Dieselhead]

No. Running a cold air style but had for years and never had an issue at 4 gal of water a day

Ok, I do see an ash bucket on the side of your stove. Do you shovel from stove to bucket? That will definitely do it. I have a homemade scoop I grab one at a time and dump it in my pail outside. If I scooped from my stove to a bucket in the room my house would be wrecked.
Furthermore don’t leave hot coals in a bucket (esp galvanized) on your hearth for long. They do produce CO in the coaling stage. Also hot galvanized coating isn’t healthy to breathe in.
I know a picture is only a snapshot in time and maybe you were in the process of a cleanout but I thought it would be worth mentioning anyways.

 

[bholler]

Hey all,
I'll Start off with a few stats:
Log Home heating 1200 sq ft of floor space(with 25ft cathedral ceiling)
Burning Oak, Ash and Maple seasoned 2 years - moisture content 14-18%(18 being a piece here and there)
Temps outside lately single to double digits with negative wind chills
Brand new Hearthstone Mansfield with ash pan (professionally installed)
Brand new 6"chimney liner (professionally installed) with the stove(20 ft high off of thimble)
Coming from a Vermont Castings Defiant with catalyst purchased back in 1999, 8" masonary flue(7" square inside 20 ft highoff of thimble)
North West NJ Area

I want to start off by saying that my wife and I are not happy with this purchase and do not know if it has to do with the new liner, stove or both!

Ash Dust - The VC was a top loader where as the Hearthstone is a front loader. One would assume that the top loader would make more "dust" in the house, but that is just not true. The Mansfield is absolutely brutal to say the least! The whole house is coated in a super fine powder-like dust - It is everywhere! Even on walls, sloped ceilings, mirrors and even got into our glass kitchen cabinets The VC let alot of smoke into the room when top loading. I hardly see anything coming out of the Mansfield when loading so where in the hell is all of this ash dust coming from???? This one has the optional blower which I know contributed to the issue - still not knowing how or why it would happen, but still is happening with it turned completely off. I am at a loss.

Starting fire from cold - VC was easy and awesome by opening the ash pan door to get it going. Mansfield not so great. Even with extra air from the ash pan door open, it is hard to get hardwood kindling going. By kindling, I mean kiln dried pieces from the wood shop I run so it doesn't get any better than that for starting fires. Once it is going though, the Mansfield is considerably better at retaining the coals to add wood. There is a sliding flapper on the ash pan for the Mansfield that i will be taking out at the end of the burning season. It is stupid as you need to slide it back and forth to get the ash into the pan below, but if an ember gets caught in there - then you can't shut the ash pan door until you get it un jammed - stupid design!

Heat Output - VC was amazing and ran at 1/2 throttle to 5/8 max if it was extremely cold as a general setting. Generally would go through 3 cords a year. Mansfield is totally different altogether - This thing has been running at full throttle 24/7 for the last month just to maintain 68-70 degrees in the house with the oil furnace kicking on overnight to help out once temp hits 65. The claim with this stove was it would burn much less wood and would burn much more efficiently. Normally with the VC, 3 cords would easily last into the middle/end of March. I am into my 3rd cord already with the Mansfield and will probably run out by end of next week or so. I do realize this has been an extremely cold year so there is that. What gets me is my dealer had told me that the VC was too big for my application and should have been running an VC Encore ( the next size smaller) at 3/4+ throttle for more efficiency. He also said the Mansfield would be too big and suggested the next size smaller(Heritage), however since I had to meet code, I could not have a side loader dictated by the size of my hearth bluestone. But here I am burning full throttle just to keep up. I did let it burn out completely before the extreme cold temps to check the Cats and they were clean and perfect(though they might have been clogged with ash). Again at a loss here.

Was I getting a better draft with the 7"id flue rather than the smaller 6"? I know soapstone is totally different heat then Cast iron but shouldn't it be about the same heat output once they are both at normal cranking temp? Its hard to compare apples to apples when everything has changed........

Running at full throttle is giving you the lowest heat output possible you are sending all of the heat out the chimney

 

[GM80NY]

The ash dust for me happens because when I am removing ash thats still hot, putting it in the ash pail. I do what i can to gently let it slide off the little shovel but its doesn't take much movement for it to plume up into the air and end up further away.

 

[pittpens24]

Thread 'New Mansfield lll observations pros and cons.'

Dec 11, 2023

Started learning this girl and I thought this thread could collect information on this stove.

Coming from a 18 year old non cat VC Dutch West stove this EPA stove has been a trial so far in figuring her quirks out but we are getting to know each other. The stove is connected to outside air since this house is VERY tight except for fresh air exchange in the HVAC system.

In talking to my dealer, one that I've bought multiple stoves from, he said this stove is cold blooded at startup. He wasn't kidding. Leaving the door cracked until there is a lot of heat built up has been a must or...

• Pinesmoke
• Replies: 16
• Forum: HearthStone

This was a thread on the Mansfield when I started with the girl. Read through and I'll be able to get back here later. I'm up to my neck right now.

Great read ty! I have come to all of the same conclusions that you have and agree 100%. Weirdest thing being the sides of the stove are alot hotter than the top. That is a great observation of the quirks and how it runs

 

[pittpens24]

Ok, I do see an ash bucket on the side of your stove. Do you shovel from stove to bucket? That will definitely do it. I have a homemade scoop I grab one at a time and dump it in my pail outside. If I scooped from my stove to a bucket in the room my house would be wrecked.
Furthermore don’t leave hot coals in a bucket (esp galvanized) on your hearth for long. They do produce CO in the coaling stage. Also hot galvanized coating isn’t healthy to breathe in.
I know a picture is only a snapshot in time and maybe you were in the process of a cleanout but I thought it would be worth mentioning anyways.

That is my ash bucket for years now(even with the VC). I am pretty anal about carefully dumping the ash pan with both the bucket and pan at an angle to lesson the chance of a plume of ash.......then it goes right outside on the stone patio for a day or so to cool off and gets dumped. Never stays with ash in it in the house for multiple reasons - especially since my entire house is wood lol. I used to have to weld galvanized so I know how nasty that stuff is.

 

[pittpens24]

Running at full throttle is giving you the lowest heat output possible you are sending all of the heat out the chimney

I get what you are saying but if I damper it down, it can't keep up. I did purchase a probe for the flue pipe online yesterday at the recommendation of someone here. Once that gets here it should help me shed some light on a few things. I do not trust the chimney installer as far as I could throw him - totally unprofessional, busted a hole out of the side of my chimney about 15 feet up outside doing the job plus he was a condescending jerk off to say the least. He also told me this stove was way too big for my house. And before you ask, out of 3 local woodstove stores and about 6 sweeps in the area, This was the only guy that would come out to do my job. Either got blown off altogether with no call backs, too far or too busy and not interested. One store even refused to do the chimney work because I was purchasing the woodstove from another supplier(because they did not carry Hearthstone) Sorry had to vent, I am very thankful for all of you here!

 

[begreen]

I get what you are saying but if I damper it down, it can't keep up. I did purchase a probe for the flue pipe online yesterday at the recommendation of someone here. Once that gets here it should help me shed some light on a few things. I do not trust the chimney installer as far as I could throw him - totally unprofessional, busted a hole out of the side of my chimney about 15 feet up outside doing the job plus he was a condescending jerk off to say the least. He also told me this stove was way too big for my house. And before you ask, out of 3 local woodstove stores and about 6 sweeps in the area, This was the only guy that would come out to do my job. Either got blown off altogether with no call backs, too far or too busy and not interested. One store even refused to do the chimney work because I was purchasing the woodstove from another supplier(because they did not carry Hearthstone) Sorry had to vent, I am very thankful for all of you here!

Gorgeous setting for that big rock! It looks great there.

These stoves like a fairly strong draft. Draft is likely a bit weak and compromised due to the short vertical stovepipe then two 90º turns in the flue path combined with the 3'? horizontal run. That is effectively reducing the overall height by around 6 feet. The cold exterior flue is not helping. Adding a probe thermometer for the stove pipe and place it about 18-21" above the stove will help with regulating the fire.

 

[bholler]

I get what you are saying but if I damper it down, it can't keep up. I did purchase a probe for the flue pipe online yesterday at the recommendation of someone here. Once that gets here it should help me shed some light on a few things. I do not trust the chimney installer as far as I could throw him - totally unprofessional, busted a hole out of the side of my chimney about 15 feet up outside doing the job plus he was a condescending jerk off to say the least. He also told me this stove was way too big for my house. And before you ask, out of 3 local woodstove stores and about 6 sweeps in the area, This was the only guy that would come out to do my job. Either got blown off altogether with no call backs, too far or too busy and not interested. One store even refused to do the chimney work because I was purchasing the woodstove from another supplier(because they did not carry Hearthstone) Sorry had to vent, I am very thankful for all of you here!

Well busting a hole in the chimney is sometimes nesecary. But it then needs to be fixed properly. And it doesn't excuse being an ass.

 

[begreen]

As a test, does opening a nearby window 1/2" liven up the fire, helping it burn stronger?

 

[pittpens24]

Gorgeous setting for that big rock! It looks great there.

These stoves like a fairly strong draft. Draft is likely a bit weak and compromised due to the short vertical stovepipe then two 90º turns in the flue path combined with the 3'? horizontal run. That is effectively reducing the overall height by around 6 feet. The cold exterior flue is not helping. Adding a probe thermometer for the stove pipe and place it about 18-21" above the stove will help with regulating the fire.

Thx so much!
Had the same setup with the VC - was never an issue with that stove.
Does it matter where the probe goes? 18-21 would put me into the elbow if it has to be in the vertical or can it go in the horizontal pipe?

 

[pittpens24]

Well busting a hole in the chimney is sometimes nesecary. But it then needs to be fixed properly. And it doesn't excuse being an ass.

Apparently when busting out the clay liner they got it all clogged up - I'm no professional chimney sweep, but wouldn't you be careful of this happening if you know it can happen? And if it did happen, would you charge your client to fix it? I run a high end cabinet shop - if anything ever happened as a result of my negligence, I either fixed it or would pay to get it fixed. It is never on the client.

 

[kborndale]

A

Apparently when busting out the clay liner they got it all clogged up - I'm no professional chimney sweep, but wouldn't you be careful of this happening if you know it can happen? And if it did happen, would you charge your client to fix it? I run a high end cabinet shop - if anything ever happened as a result of my negligence, I either fixed it or would pay to get it fixed. It is never on the client.

At least they broke out the clay and insulated the liner, half the hacks out there don't want to do that and will argue you until your blue saying you do not need an insulated liner.

 

[pittpens24]

A


At least they broke out the clay and insulated the liner, half the hacks out there don't want to do that and will argue you until your blue saying you do not need an insulated liner.

Lol - they didn't want to. Thanks to google I just did my homework and made them. Not sure if you saw my pics, but they didn't even put in a dbl wall pipe from my stove to the thimble(as per code here in NJ as I was only 14" away from the wood mantle). I had to have them come back and switch it out. They had me pull the permits and they would have failed final inspection if I didn't know any better.