Condensing propane water heaters?

[pybyr]

I've decided that it's getting near time to stop rolling the dice with a 17+ year old stand alone oil fired water heater- I'd rather say "$$-ouch-$$" at a time of my choosing when I can choose my replacement options than come home to a cellar full of water and/ or steam and have to hire it done or choose based on what is locally/ quickly available off the shelf.

I have propane on-site for the kitchen cookstove, which opens up the option of a propane water heater.

For a variety of reasons, I don't want to go with a conventional flue-vented propane heater.

I am open to but not all that wild about propane tankless heaters.

I read a ___really___ interesting article recently in a back issue of Journal of Light Construction about condensing highly insulated tank-type gas heaters, which capture the heat of vaporization to gain efficiency and allow venting via PVC pipe. THAT sounds like my kinda unit.

I have found a couple of makes- HTC/ Phoenix and AWH/ Polaris, and see some strong and weak points about each.

I would be really, really interested in hearing experience from people who have installed or owned either of those makes, and also interested in learning of any other makes I may not be aware of. I'm about an hour from the Canadian border, so if there happen to be innovative makes and models available in Canada but not in the US and that I should consider, I would not rule out going across the border and hauling something back in my truck.

BTW, the code enforcer here is ME; I don't do anything foolhardy but thankfully don't have any bureaucracy to navigate.

I don't have unlimited funds (understatement), but subscribe to the philosophy that I am "too poor to buy cheap stuff that doesn't last" and "buy once, cry once"

Thanks in advance for help and suggestions.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

That sounds like great idea. Part of the problem with conventional gas heater is after the water is up to temp,the air continues to exit the flue essentially quickly cooling off the water you just spent money to heat. Some type of air trap top prevent this would go a long way on standby losses. Of course there IS a very efficient gas HW heater on the market already , an ON DEMAND small unit but these tend to be very expensive.

 

[pybyr]

That sounds like great idea. Part of the problem with conventional gas heater is after the water is up to temp,the air continues to exit the flue essentially quickly cooling off the water you just spent money to heat. Some type of air trap top prevent this would go a long way on standby losses. Of course there IS a very efficient gas HW heater on the market already , an ON DEMAND small unit but these tend to be very expensive.

I'm slightly familiar with the on demand units as I help take care of a couple of buildings that have those installed- and they are probably great for some applications- but not for mine. I have long spells where I use little to no hot water, and then other spells where I am drawing abundant amounts at several locations all at the same time (dishwasher, shower, laundry). Some type of tank makes most sense for my usage patterns. The tank- type high efficiency units look like the cat's meow for my application but I just would like input from those who know them to help me pick a unit that will be reliable, long-lasting, and have long-run least-cost. I don't mind servicing a unit as long as it is built to be serviced.

 

[jrod770]

My family runs our own plumbing business. I have seen all of these new designs of water heaters come and go. Why spend so much money on a water heater that could potentially need replaced in 6-7 years? Let alone leave you without hot water while you wait for the factory to ship parts. Put in a cheap, $300, electric water heater and be done with it. You can replace that electric water heater 4-5 times in exchange for the price of a tankless. I built my house 4 years ago, salesman was going to give me a tankless, I passed. I'm currently running a 50 gallon propane power vent or 80 gallon electric. Both free by the way. My 2 cents.

 

[pybyr]

My family runs our own plumbing business. I have seen all of these new designs of water heaters come and go. Why spend so much money on a water heater that could potentially need replaced in 6-7 years? Let alone leave you without hot water while you wait for the factory to ship parts. Put in a cheap, $300, electric water heater and be done with it. You can replace that electric water heater 4-5 times in exchange for the price of a tankless. I built my house 4 years ago, salesman was going to give me a tankless, I passed. I'm currently running a 50 gallon propane power vent or 80 gallon electric. Both free by the way. My 2 cents.

The kWh rate where I live is brutally high. I once temporarily ran a second hand electric HWH while I had my chimney torn out, and I might as well have thrown my wallet on the table and lit it up with a blowtorch. And I've never never been too impressed with the recovery times of electric HWHs, so electric is a dead loser for me.

I've got no interest in a tankless, what I am looking at/ interested in is a condensing _tank_-type propane heater- more or less like a power vent only with a lot more heat exchanger. They have stainless tanks and stainless or other non-corroding HXs

 

[STIHLY DAN]

The HTP is a really good unit. Factory backs up there product. I condemned a heat exchanger on 1 and they replaced the whole unit no charge.

 

[Ehouse]

I have an American (brand) sidewall vent WH that I installed +- 20 years ago. It's a great unit still going strong. It was a freebe as incentive from the propane co.. Not a power vent unit, but concentric vent like a DV gas stove, with no moving parts, blowers etc. Trouble free all this time! Can't tell you the model as it is in a rental, seems like it may have been a Nautilus. Ask your supplier (or a Competitor) about incentives.

 

[Nofossil]

Trevor, I don't remember the details of your setup but I'm experimenting (finally) with a propane on-demand heater that's design to heat either DHW or act as a boiler for space heating. I have a thread on it here. When I got it, it was $500. Expect it's gone up since. For DHW, I have an indirect tank that's plumbed as a zone. In that way, I can heat DHW easily but indirectly from the propane unit. I really installed it to replace my oil boiler as the backup heat source for my house.