Confirm my thoughts: this isn't normal, is it??

[Swedishchef]

Hey guys

Today I took my kids over to my FIL's house. He has a smoke dragon (located in the basement) and the chimney is straight up through the house and ends about 2 feet higher than the roof line.

I noticed today that there is some brown/dark liquid dripping down the side of the chimney. To the point that it is going over the snow-filled eavestrough and down the siding. I am 90% convinced this is some sort of creosote. Last year his chimney cap was completly blocked at one point. I told him he needs to dry his wood more and get a new stove (that's like talking to a stump...he "knows" how to burn wood, he has been doing it all his life).

Atleast he sweeps once a month. He is currently burning 24/7 and swept twice already.

So, this liquid must be some form of creosote, right?

Andrew

 

[stoveguy13]

yes most likely creosote and really needs to be looked at

 

[Swedishchef]

Agreed. I told him that. Once again, I feel it's like trying to get a Donkey to learn how to juggle chainsaws.
He has been burning wood his entire life. I have been burning for 4 years......

A

 

[Charles1981]

Don't pester too hard. You may have his best interests in mind, but I wouldn't be trying to teach an old dog new tricks especially when its my FIL. I would be concerned about my kids staying over night however (but again if he is sweeping that often then clearly he knows that it has to be swept for the stove to run properly and safely, but he does not recognize it as something bad and honestly probably never will).

If he is really adamant you could end up pissing him off pretty good....and when they start resisting advice i catch on quick.

He may have even had a chimney fire before and think it was "normal"

 

[Nick Mystic]

Has your FIL seen your setup? Has he ever commented on it? I'd say your best bet is to just lead by example. You've tried to educate him by talking to him and have found him unreceptive. so any further talking is likely to only serve to make him harden his position that much more. If he has any smarts he'll be able to see the benefits of burning smart and then if he shows some interest down the road you'll be ready to steer him our way and we'll finish his education!

 

[HotCoals]

Actually the old stoves usually shot a lot of the heat right up the chimney. Then baffles came along and that confused some people and sometimes made matters worse.
Now you can probably gunk up a flue faster with wet wood then before if you operate the newer EPA stoves way wrong.
Your fil's biggest prob is his wood is to wet. At least he is cleaning it regular though.

 

[Swedishchef]

I won't push my luck.. But when you are the only one with a dark liquid dripping down the side and over the eaves trough..... Lol.

He really is stuck in he 1980s. Nothing against him, love him dearly. Just trying to avoid a chiney fire. He cut out the ring in his chimney cap because he said that " it clogged my cap...so I cut it out to let the smoke escape more easily".

He has seen my setup nd has not commented. His BIL lives next door and swapped to an EPA stove 4 years ago. No dripping, no smoke. And his BIL is 10 years older than him!

 

[jatoxico]

Doesn't sound like he's going to listen. If he's not going to dry his wood then he's probably better off with his old stove. If he is generating glaze creosote maybe some Creo-soot as gift "to make it easier for him" when he sweeps. Either that or make sure his fire alarms are up to date.

 

[weatherguy]

You can try but I can tell you from experience he's probably not going to listen no matter how you approach him. The only thing you can do if the kids spend the night put a fire extinguisher in their over night bags.

 

[Hogwildz]

Many caps will grow dark icicles and drip that stuff onto the roof. Don't know about all the way to the gutter line, but a dirty cap and icicles is not always an indicator of bad wood.
When it is cold enough, most caps grow icicles as this is the coldest part of the system and in cold, wet weather, it is not uncommon for the exhaust gases up there to condensate and freeze. The more severe the winter, rain & snowfall etc, more you will see this.
Not saying he may or may not be burning with the best habits, just saying there are other factors.

 

[Swedishchef]

Hog: thanks for the head's up. I will try and get a picture without him seeing me and post it here. I have seen the typical drip when it is cold...but this seems worse. For it to drip down the chimney, 2-3 feet over to the gutter, over the gutter and down the siding seems like a bit more than the average bear.

Don't forget: last winter his cap plugged solid with soot/creosote around the metal band. So he removed the band this summer. I always tell people to dry their wood ATLEAST 2 years but nobody seems to care/listen.

Let's see if I can approach this delicately...

Andrew

 

[BobUrban]

I had a similar conversation with a friend yesterday regarding those that cut in sept/oct to burn this winter because they believe ash is ready to burn where it stands. If he is cleaning once a month there is little issue of a fire but the practice is inefficient to say the least.

I think offering to help clean or commending his cleaning schedule is a better approach because ultimately your concern is the health and well being of those involved. Attract ants with honey - not vinegar and you will get farther ahead.

Ie: you = 4years
Him = lifetime

use this to your advantage and seek "his" advice about wood heat and all that is involved. Listen to his stories, be involved as a learner - act as if you are grateful. Take it slow and expect this process to take time. Slowly, and with his permission by clues more than request - start to integrate what you have learned into the conversation.

- Hey, I found this great website....
- I learned something about the history of your stove...
- I got a sweet deal on this new cleaning system called soot eater so I bought two...
- WOW - this Black Locust I got burns hot and I have a lot - I brought some here for you to try...
- Invite him to come cut with you...

Note - again, this will take time and maybe a long time. Don't push - you have zero to loose and everything to gain by all of this as his practices are likely never to change without it so if it takes 2-3 years to turn old beliefs you are accomplishing something.

Humans avoid change like is a disease and only hate one thing more - TO BE WRONG! Over time create a scenario that makes it ALL his idea and when he finally says something like, "you are onto something" or "check out how well my stove performs with this "old" wood" do not let yourself to say "I told you so" or you will go backwards. Just keep hidden in your mind that you are getting where you want to go - just using and alternative route or the back door.

The upside of human nature is it's predictability - think like flowing water and take the path of least resistance - no smart to push and immovable object up hill - much easier to get it rolling the other way and use it's own weight to get it going and step aside.

My motto in this case is: Sometimes the passenger seat is the drivers seat - as long as we are all getting where we are going. Slide over and let your FIL take the wheel - just make sure you program the GPS

 

[oldspark]

About 35 years ago I read a book about burning wood ( was not that easy to get good info back then) and it talked about dry wood and flue temps not causing creosote I was convinced, when you learn the basics you build on that with the learning process.
I bought a stove pipe thermometer to help the wife (and Me) and made sure the wood was cut ahead of time and in a little over 30 years I never had much creosote to speak of, if he has a fire I am sure he will be more willing to learn but that's no fun.
Black gooey creosote scares the hell out of me!

 

[red oak]

I remember my grandparents used to have the same thing. As a kid I thought is was normal. I have some cousins who still need to clean their chimney up to 10 times per winter. My own FIL though, I have been trying hardest to convince. One of the things I did was to clean my chimney when he was at the house on purpose, then show him the small amount of flaky creosote from the entire winter and ask him what he thought. He was pretty impressed. I've also been on him to get further ahead, which means when I'm at his place I offer to help him cut wood, and split it. I've gotten him from cutting in October for that winter to the point where he's two years ahead. So try to offer help if you can but I agree with the others who say to not be critical.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

In the meantime i wouldnt let my kids spend the night there while the stove is going. Many of these old time burners think just because they never burned the house down that it wont happen in the future.

 

[Swedishchef]

Oh my kids aren't sleeping there, that is certain.

PS. He has had 2-3 chimney fires in his life.

 

[begreen]

Are your homes close to the same size? If so, how much wood does he burn in comparison to you? Let he daughter talk to him about the sote. She may have better luck.

 

[bag of hammers]

He has had 2-3 chimney fires in his life.

Is it possible to get complacent with chimney fires?

"Honey, looks like the chimney's on fire again. Hey, have you seen the remote..?"

 

[red oak]

Is it possible to get complacent with chimney fires?

"Honey, looks like the chimney's on fire again. Hey, have you seen the remote..?"

Yes it is very possible! I once read about a woman who stopped by her grandfather's house only to see flames coming out of the chimney. She pounded on the door and told him about it. His response was to invite her in for breakfast.

 

[bag of hammers]

When it is cold enough, most caps grow icicles as this is the coldest part of the system and in cold, wet weather, it is not uncommon for the exhaust gases up there to condensate and freeze.

Glad you mentioned this. I have this going on now (this is the coldest December in a long time here). Icicles on the cap, heat waves over top. It still kinda freaks me out a bit, but based on the last few years (relatively clean chimney) I've come to expect to see this sometimes.

 

[bag of hammers]

Yes it is very possible! I once read about a woman who stopped by her grandfather's house only to see flames coming out of the chimney. She pounded on the door and told him about it. His response was to invite her in for breakfast.

Wow. There's something to be said for not panicking, but I don't ever wanna be that guy.

 

[oldspark]

He must be one of those people who think chimney fires are part of the wood burning experience.

 

[PapaDave]

He has been burning wood his entire life. I have been burning for 8 years......

Me, in bold, and the rest is my brother, except he's been doing it about 30.
Experience is not always the best teacher.

 

[BobUrban]

My neighbor is a "ho hum another chimney fire dear" guy. Totally freaks me out. Lots of stories but all are not good. Great, great guy and great family - just of the belief that it is part of heating with wood.

 

[Swedishchef]

I guess it is a good thing that wood stove distrbutors don't make the client write a wood burner's exam....then again, maybe they should. Even a 4 hour course or something.....

I was at my FIL's place today. He said wakes in the night, puts 2 pieces of birch, turns the stove down, and goes back to bed. I said "don;t you think you should maybe get it a little hotter before turning it down and going back to bed? You'd get some wicked heat from it!!" and he replies "Naw, it will burn too fast". He knows that his stove is old. It's an old Newmac. They make a Newmac EPA but he won't bother buying one. Even if it would burn about 1/4 to 1/3 less wood and have 10 times less buildup in the chimney. I was like "The new EPA stoves let you load once every 8-12 hours depending on size, you should try mine next time you come over. It's a great feeling to not have to getup in the night to keep the fire going" He replies "it's ok, I always go pee in the night and takes me 2 minutes to add more wood". lol