Conversion from Oil to Wood Heat

[neohioheat]

I currently have a V14 Burnham boiler in my basement and Lopi Evergreen on the first floor. House is 2000 sq feet and located in Ohio.

Oil prices in my area are currently outrageous and I'm trying to find a different heating system for my house. I'm currently contemplating retiring the oil tank and boiler in the basement and installing a wood stove in its place with a liner installed in the chimney.

For the upstairs I'm also thinking of adding a 24k minisplit to the living room to provide supplemental heat for the insert/stove. Another possible route to go would be to skip the wood stove, add an outdoor wood boiler and then tap into the existing plumbing for the baseboard heating. I'm leaning towards the stove in the basement because that would cost me less than $1000 vs. the outdoor wood boiler which sounds like it'd be around $10k for the unit and install.

Thoughts/opinions? Thanks in advance!

 

[begreen]

If the wood stove goes in the basement, would it use the boiler's flue? I think it would be wise to keep the boiler as a backup in case of injury, illness, or being called away during a bitter cold snap. That may require an alternative venting system for the boiler.

Many mini splits do not have strip heaters in them for extremely cold temperature heat. Be sure to ask if this is an option.

Check in with the Boiler Room forum for details and questions on what it would take to do this with a wood boiler.

The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces

This Forum is for the topic of Central Heating - specifically with wood, coal, pellets, corn and other solid fuels. We can also discuss multi-fuel systems, which burn oil and gas along with solid fuels. If you are looking to heat your entire house evenly from one location outside the living...

www.hearth.com

 

[bholler]

I currently have a V14 Burnham boiler in my basement and Lopi Evergreen on the first floor. House is 2000 sq feet and located in Ohio.

Oil prices in my area are currently outrageous and I'm trying to find a different heating system for my house. I'm currently contemplating retiring the oil tank and boiler in the basement and installing a wood stove in its place with a liner installed in the chimney.

For the upstairs I'm also thinking of adding a 24k minisplit to the living room to provide supplemental heat for the insert/stove. Another possible route to go would be to skip the wood stove, add an outdoor wood boiler and then tap into the existing plumbing for the baseboard heating. I'm leaning towards the stove in the basement because that would cost me less than $1000 vs. the outdoor wood boiler which sounds like it'd be around $10k for the unit and install.

Thoughts/opinions? Thanks in advance!

A stove in the basement and a liner aren't going to cost less that $1000

 

[neohioheat]

A stove in the basement and a liner aren't going to cost less that $1000

I've found an all nighter big moe wood stove for $300 near me and a liner is $500. I would likely install the liner myself.

 

[bholler]

I've found an all nighter big moe wood stove for $300 near me and a liner is $500. I would likely install the liner myself.

A liner with insulation?

 

[neohioheat]

If the wood stove goes in the basement, would it use the boiler's flue? I think it would be wise to keep the boiler as a backup in case of injury, illness, or being called away during a bitter cold snap. That may require an alternative venting system for the boiler.

Many mini splits do not have strip heaters in them for extremely cold temperature heat. Be sure to ask if this is an option.

Check in with the Boiler Room forum for details and questions on what it would take to do this with a wood boiler.

The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces

This Forum is for the topic of Central Heating - specifically with wood, coal, pellets, corn and other solid fuels. We can also discuss multi-fuel systems, which burn oil and gas along with solid fuels. If you are looking to heat your entire house evenly from one location outside the living...

www.hearth.com

The wood stove would use the boiler's flue.

 

[bholler]

The wood stove would use the boiler's flue.

Yes but does that boiler flue have the clearances required for use with a woodstove?

 

[neohioheat]

Yes but does that boiler flue have the clearances required for use with a woodstove?

Good question. The wood stove outlet is 6". I guess I was assuming as long as the duct for the wood stove fit into the flue and the chimney liner fit in the chimney that all would be good.

 

[neohioheat]

A liner with insulation?

Looks like one with insulation is around $1000-1500. Last year when I had the Lopi Evergreen insert installed in my living room fireplace they used a 6"x25' chimney liner that was listed at $600 on the sales receipt.

 

[bholler]

Good question. The wood stove outlet is 6". I guess I was assuming as long as the duct for the wood stove fit into the flue and the chimney liner fit in the chimney that all would be good.

A chimney for a wood stove needs to have 1" clearance from.the outside of the masonry structure to combustibles for an external chimney. And 2" for an internal one. Without that you need insulation

 

[neohioheat]

A chimney for a wood stove needs to have 1" clearance from.the outside of the masonry structure to combustibles for an external chimney. And 2" for an internal one. Without that you need insulation

So my current plans are to likely go forward with installing the wood stove in the basement and then have the minisplit installed on the first floor. The minisplit is a 24k Mr Cool DIY that I was planning on adding to my barn but changed my mind. The 24k is rated to heat/cool 1000-1200 sq feet.

I would likely leave the boiler itself in place but just swap the ducting over to the wood stove. Then if I ever wanted to go back to burning oil and using the boiler in the future I could hopefully use it with the chimney liner required for the stove.

In the end I would have my Lopi Evergreen wood insert and Mr Cool 24k Minisplit in the living room on the main floor, then the All Nighter Mid Moe wood stove in the basement.

 

[EbS-P]

does the basement need heat? Seems like a decent plan. Personally I’d skip the basement stove and spend the time and money on insulation.

 

[neohioheat]

does the basement need heat? Seems like a decent plan. Personally I’d skip the basement stove and spend the time and money on insulation.

It doesn't really need heat. Its not exactly comfortable in the winter but the lowest I saw it get last year with just running the insert was the low 50s from what I can recall.

I personally like the idea of the wood stove in the basement as a backup when the power goes out. The wood insert upstairs can heat the living room but without the blower/electricity it won't really effectively heat more than that. The wood stove I'm looking at purchasing doesn't require a blower and seems like it would radiate a lot of heat just having the unit in an open area.

 

[peakbagger]

Just be aware that without insulated basement walls, a lot of the heat will be heating up the ground next to the foundation. My mom used to have her rose bushes planted along foundation walls and they always were the first ones in the neighborhood to bloom. I also remember as kid playing in the winter that in deep snow years there frequently would be the beginnings of tunnel around the house from heat in the basement melting the snow back.

 

[Ashful]

Just be aware that without insulated basement walls, a lot of the heat will be heating up the ground next to the foundation. My mom used to have her rose bushes planted along foundation walls and they always were the first ones in the neighborhood to bloom. I also remember as kid playing in the winter that in deep snow years there frequently would be the beginnings of tunnel around the house from heat in the basement melting the snow back.

I've observed the same thing, running wood stoves in a home with masonry walls. Such an enormous amount of the heat radiated off a the stove goes straight into the masonry.

To the OP, read up on radiation or radiant heat, versus convective. Most stoves are a steel or iron box, which transmit their heat to the home via radiation. Sticking it into a basement with uninsulated masonry walls is a good way to heat the earth, and a poor way to heat your home.

There are stoves that move most of their heat by convection, but they're generally not inexpensive. There's also the option to insulate the basement walls, but that seems like unnecessary work with potential other risks.

Any consideration of re-purposing whatever chimney/hearth you have on the first floor, to just put a stove up there? Then you can leave your central heating system in-place, to placate the insurers, buyers, and to keep the place heated if you go out of town or land in the hospital.

 

[all night moe]

I have a Mid Moe. It's a great stove for it's day. A heavy bugger too. I bought mine in good condition, 10yrs ago, for $600. If you do get the All Nighter, look it over closely. $300 sounds far to cheap. I routinely see these sell for $800 plus. Those are reconditioned prices though. All new brick, paint, .... etc.

Personally, especially since you already have a hydronic system in place, I would look for an outdoor boiler. Look for a used one in your area to get you going. Do not skimp on the underground lines. That is even a sticky in the boiler forum. Loading wood down in the basement gets old, quick. Also have to make sure your wood is bug free. OWB keeps everything outside and saves a ton on labor. You also still have your oil boiler for back up

Get well ahead on seasoned dry wood. That is key for you and your neighbors. If you choose the OWB, plan ahead to upgrade to a gasifier in the near future. In this approach, at least your system would already be installed making a swap easier. Lots of info on this site to read into.

 

[bholler]

I have a Mid Moe. It's a great stove for it's day. A heavy bugger too. I bought mine in good condition, 10yrs ago, for $600. If you do get the All Nighter, look it over closely. $300 sounds far to cheap. I routinely see these sell for $800 plus. Those are reconditioned prices though. All new brick, paint, .... etc.

Personally, especially since you already have a hydronic system in place, I would look for an outdoor boiler. Look for a used one in your area to get you going. Do not skimp on the underground lines. That is even a sticky in the boiler forum. Loading wood down in the basement gets old, quick. Also have to make sure your wood is bug free. OWB keeps everything outside and saves a ton on labor. You also still have your oil boiler for back up

Get well ahead on seasoned dry wood. That is key for you and your neighbors. If you choose the OWB, plan ahead to upgrade to a gasifier in the near future. In this approach, at least your system would already be installed making a swap easier. Lots of info on this site to read into.

300ish is the right price for any of the old plate steel stoves in decent shape. Maybe 5 to 6 if it's gone over well. But honestly until recently you could find them all over free for removing them from someone's basement. I still see them for that or scrap price.

 

[neohioheat]

@Ashful @peakbagger My basement is insulated. @all night moe The all nighter stove I've found is in a basement so that probably plays into the $300 price tag. But it appears to be in great condition. I've also found others for 100-200 in rough shape that need paint and firebricks replaced. There is also another little moe near me for $300 as well but I don't think it would be big enough.

I do like the idea of the outdoor wood boiler but don't exactly have the funds for one right now. So I may go that route down the road in a few years.

I'm also the type to think of when times of chit hitting the fan and not having electricity that the wood stove in the basement could be a solid heat source. I also live on a wooded lot of 7 acres with access to wood, just have to cut, split and stack.

 

[otsegony]

My home heating system is set up much like what you are proposing to do and I find that it works quite well. It is 2000 sq. foot home in upstate NY (zone 5) built in 2003 and well insulated. Originally I heated only with an oil fired radiant floor system driven by a Burnham oil boiler. As I had originally intended to install an indoor wood boiler I had a chimney in the center of the house, so a couple of years later I picked up a used Fisher Grandpa Bear clone wood stove until I had the funds for the boiler. The wood stove worked out so well I gave up on the wood boiler and stuck with that original system until 4 years ago when I had a 36k Mitsubishi Hyper heat pump with a high wall unit downstairs and a cassette in the ceiling of the upstairs hall. This system works very well with the heat pump providing most of my heat down to about 10 degrees and then supplementing that with the wood stove and finally, when it is really cold (below -10) I turn on the oil boiler. Last year I turned on the boiler once during a very cold weekend and also try to run it every month or so for about 30 minutes to exercise the pumps.
From my experience the critical factors to succeeding with the wood stove are 1) insulating the cellar walls, as others have pointed out the heat from the stove will be wasted without this; 2) establishing an air flow for the rising heat from the stove. Our house has a fairly open floor plan so the upward circulation generally flows through the stairs; 3) understanding the flow of heat via convection and radiant from your stove and optimizing for this. For example, my stove is fairly primitive steel plate stove that provides a lot of radiant heat. I can see this heat (by feel and by IR thermometer) move through the house by the way it warms the structure. The floors and walls on the first floor are warmed by the stove and give off heat themselves, the chimney rising through the house gives off some heat that you can feel as you walk by that part of the house.
Also, I did install a couple of heat returns that help with air circulation, they are close by the stove near the center of the home and the ducts extend to an inch or so above the floor. When the stove is running you can feel the air coming out of the return and flowing towards the stove.
A few years ago we had a couple days long power outage and the wood stove kept the entire house comfortable for the duration at 68-70 degrees except for the second floor which was more like 65 degrees.
I hope this was helpful, good luck with the project.

 

[neohioheat]

My home heating system is set up much like what you are proposing to do and I find that it works quite well. It is 2000 sq. foot home in upstate NY (zone 5) built in 2003 and well insulated. Originally I heated only with an oil fired radiant floor system driven by a Burnham oil boiler. As I had originally intended to install an indoor wood boiler I had a chimney in the center of the house, so a couple of years later I picked up a used Fisher Grandpa Bear clone wood stove until I had the funds for the boiler. The wood stove worked out so well I gave up on the wood boiler and stuck with that original system until 4 years ago when I had a 36k Mitsubishi Hyper heat pump with a high wall unit downstairs and a cassette in the ceiling of the upstairs hall. This system works very well with the heat pump providing most of my heat down to about 10 degrees and then supplementing that with the wood stove and finally, when it is really cold (below -10) I turn on the oil boiler. Last year I turned on the boiler once during a very cold weekend and also try to run it every month or so for about 30 minutes to exercise the pumps.
From my experience the critical factors to succeeding with the wood stove are 1) insulating the cellar walls, as others have pointed out the heat from the stove will be wasted without this; 2) establishing an air flow for the rising heat from the stove. Our house has a fairly open floor plan so the upward circulation generally flows through the stairs; 3) understanding the flow of heat via convection and radiant from your stove and optimizing for this. For example, my stove is fairly primitive steel plate stove that provides a lot of radiant heat. I can see this heat (by feel and by IR thermometer) move through the house by the way it warms the structure. The floors and walls on the first floor are warmed by the stove and give off heat themselves, the chimney rising through the house gives off some heat that you can feel as you walk by that part of the house.
Also, I did install a couple of heat returns that help with air circulation, they are close by the stove near the center of the home and the ducts extend to an inch or so above the floor. When the stove is running you can feel the air coming out of the return and flowing towards the stove.
A few years ago we had a couple days long power outage and the wood stove kept the entire house comfortable for the duration at 68-70 degrees except for the second floor which was more like 65 degrees.
I hope this was helpful, good luck with the project.

@otsegony Definitely helps a lot! I actually have a Burnham boiler myself. I think I'll also do the same with adding the heat returns.

Did insurance give you any grief about using the wood stove and did you put a liner in the chimney that the boiler was using?

 

[otsegony]

The stove was installed in the middle of an open concrete cellar so it easily meets the code requirement of being at least 36" from combustible walls, so the agent didn't have a problem with that. The oil boiler is hooked up to a powervent that goes through the wall. The wood stove uses an 8" triple wall metal chimney that was installed in anticipation of having a Tarm wood boiler down there, so no liner needed.
Another aspect of this install was that when I replaced my original water heater I put in a Heat Pump Hot Water Heater. This takes advantage of the heat from the wood stove to produce domestic hot water.