Country Comfort 325, with a weird oval flue

[Tedinski]

Hello!

My friend asked me to help him with his Country Comfort 325 wood stove insert. It wouldn't stay lit.

We took the top plate off, so we could see the top of the stove and up into the flue.

There is an odd oval top to the wood stove, for the flue. it's about 10.75" by 4.5" ID, and it looks like cast iron.

There is an oval flexible stainless flue stuck into the top of the stove, and it goes about 2 feet up the chimney. No adapter, tons of room around the flexible flue, and it's just stuck up there! You can see all the way around it, and straight up the chimney to outdoors! I can't imagine 2 feet is enough length to create a draw.

I'd like to find an adapter from the cast top of the insert, to round flue (should it be double wall, inside a brick chimney?)

I have been utterly unable to find any adapters or any parts whatsoever that seem to fit this size oval.

Any ideas?

Would pictures help? I could take a couple photos tomorrow evening.


Many thanks in advance,
Tedinski

P.S. A couple years ago I got SO MUCH good advice on buying a pellet stove. It's working well, into this third season, and I'm just so happy with it! Thanks for all the good info, folks!

 

[Tedinski]

P.P.S. They just bought the house last fall. They had a few fires last winter, and would like to use it a LOT this winter. No way it's going to function reliably, or safely, like it is. I can only wonder what the previous owners did with the stove. It's probably been like this since the house was built.

thx
Tedinski

 

[Wisneaky]

will any of these pipes or connects work?

 

[begreen]

At a minimum it needs a sealed block-off plate at the damper area.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/block-off-plate-why-damper-seal-is-needed/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/country-comfort-maintenance.115672/
But ideally it should have a full liner to the top of the chimney in order to draft well.

 

[Tedinski]

Thanks to you both, begreen and Wisneaky!
Wisneaky: Yes. One of the ones listed in your first picture would fit the outlet perfectly. Is there an adapter, where I could go from oval to round? or is it best to stay with the oval all the way to the top of the chimney? The pictures of the adapter plates for the top of the stove: do they fit all stoves? we just drill a hole where the current bolt holds the oval plate in place?
begreen: Yep. he's getting a plate made up out of stainless. As little as we both know, we were still both surprised there was none there. Thanks!

I guess we need to know, if there's an oval-to-round adapter, can we then make the blocking plate with a round hole? Or are we going to have to make an oval hole to match the oval liner and go all the way to the top of the chimney with oval?
There's also very little clearance above the insert, which may be why they went with oval flexible liner to begin with.
Somebody's gotta make an adapter! :D

I may stop back up there this evening and take a few pictures.

Tedinski

 

[Wisneaky]

Thanks to you both, begreen and Wisneaky!
Wisneaky: Yes. One of the ones listed in your first picture would fit the outlet perfectly. Is there an adapter, where I could go from oval to round? or is it best to stay with the oval all the way to the top of the chimney? The pictures of the adapter plates for the top of the stove: do they fit all stoves? we just drill a hole where the current bolt holds the oval plate in place?
begreen: Yep. he's getting a plate made up out of stainless. As little as we both know, we were still both surprised there was none there. Thanks!

I guess we need to know, if there's an oval-to-round adapter, can we then make the blocking plate with a round hole? Or are we going to have to make an oval hole to match the oval liner and go all the way to the top of the chimney with oval?
There's also very little clearance above the insert, which may be why they went with oval flexible liner to begin with.
Somebody's gotta make an adapter! :D

I may stop back up there this evening and take a few pictures.

Tedinski

Here is a link to the fittings and pipes. (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/product/L820_DL_W.pdf)
I know they make a round to oval, not sure if it works the other way around. If you give them a call they are really helpful. I contacted them before my install and they helped me with all my answers.
Did they use oval because round wouldn't fit would be my question.

 

[Tedinski]

P.S. (again!) Since it's in a masonry chimney, is single wall 304 acceptable? How should it be insulated? vermiculite poured in?

 

[Wisneaky]

P.S. (again!) Since it's in a masonry chimney, is single wall 304 acceptable? How should it be insulated? vermiculite poured in?

I'll let someone else that uses single wall liners answer that question. I prefer the double wall insulated liners. Others use single and insulation.

 

[Tedinski]

Hello Wisneaky!

Yep. I think they used oval because of the low clearance of the front of the fireplace. I'm wondering if I got a stove-top to round pipe adapter, at 30 degrees, and then a 30 degree elbow to point back up the chimney, it might fit. definitely not a straight shot up!

Thanks so much for the links. I'll start looking through now.

 

[Wisneaky]

Hello Wisneaky!

Yep. I think they used oval because of the low clearance of the front of the fireplace. I'm wondering if I got a stove-top to round pipe adapter, at 30 degrees, and then a 30 degree elbow to point back up the chimney, it might fit. definitely not a straight shot up!

Thanks so much for the links. I'll start looking through now.

That should work, I'd measure it out to make sure. They have all the specs listed.

 

[bholler]

Since it's in a masonry chimney, is single wall 304 acceptable? How should it be insulated? vermiculite poured in?

Yes 304 will work fine and single wall is fine as well i always recommend at least midweight liners but we typically use heavy wall liners if the stove is going to be used all the time. As far as insulation goes if installed properly any type of approved insulation will work but the pour in takes allot more experience to install properly. Wrap or preinsulated is much easier

 

[begreen]

P.S. (again!) Since it's in a masonry chimney, is single wall 304 acceptable? How should it be insulated? vermiculite poured in?

Good idea to run it insulated all the way. Duraliner is a pre-insulated flue lining system. There is an inner and outer jacket with insulation in between.

 

[Tedinski]

So what kind of insulation is "approved"?
he'd love to run double wall insulated, but it's FAR out of the budget. Single wall and vermiculite may well be the top of the budget, if we do it sometime in November.
Any reason to NOT use vermiculite?
bholler: Thanks for your input.
I put double wall insulated up in my house, and it works GREAT. It's just not in hte budget though.

thx

 

[bholler]

Any reason to NOT use vermiculite?

straight vermicultie is not approved. You would need to use an approved cement and vermiculite mix. The cost is about the same between that and wrap.

 

[Tedinski]

I have access to plenty of high-temp mortar. I work at SECO/Warwick (www.secowarwick.com) and we build some EXTREMELY high temperature furnaces. Higher than you might think possible. Of course, they don't use mortar, or even brick. Most of our furnaces are made with IFB and thin mortar mix. We have hundreds of gallons of high temp mortar that has "expired" that I could probably get ....
Could I make my own mix?

 

[begreen]

If budget is tight would go with a foil backed ceramic fiber insulation. They come in kits fit to the length of the liner.

 

[Tedinski]

We use a lot of kaowool insulation at work, also. but it's not foil-backed.
vermiculite with essentially-free high temp mortar would be awfully cheap.... if it's OK to use!

 

[Tedinski]

I'm not trying to be argumentative... just as cheap as possible.

 

[mellow]

On an older insert like this I would put a Rectangle to Round insert boot on it to convert to round exhaust, make sure and bolt it down good and seal the boot with some furnace cement. Cut out the damper so you will have a straighter shot up the chimney. Measure the flue so you can make sure an insulated 6" liner will fit down it, a paint can down the flue will give you a quick idea of the space needed.

It is going to look like this:

You can wrap the liner with kaowool you will need to use some chicken wire to wrap around it so it doesn't come off while pulling it down the chimney.

Here is a link to a similar stove so others can see what he is dealing with: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/country-comfort-maintenance.115672/

 

[Tedinski]

Thanks for your reply!
Where is the particular rectangular-to-round adapter that you picture, bought from?
I never thought of using chicken wire as a wrap for the kaowool. foil-backed was mentioned, but I've never seen that used at SECO. I can get regular kaowool from work... I'll have to check the prices. I imagine it's expensive but really don't know.
I had asked earlier... is it OK to use vermiculite? I was thinking of watering down some high temp mortar & mixing it with vermiculite in a small cement mixer, then simply filling up the rest of the flue. I can get high temp mortar for free. Is this acceptable? vermiculite is SO CHEAP!
I don't even remember where I heard about using vermiculite, but SOMEPLACE.
If it's not generally recognized as safe, I'll look into buying the kaowool from work.
Thanks again!

 

[bholler]

had asked earlier... is it OK to use vermiculite? I was thinking of watering down some high temp mortar & mixing it with vermiculite in a small cement mixer, then simply filling up the rest of the flue. I can get high temp mortar for free. Is this acceptable? vermiculite is SO CHEAP!
I don't even remember where I heard about using vermiculite, but SOMEPLACE.
If it's not generally recognized as safe,

The problem is if you mix it to rick and it gets to hard you can do serious damage. To soft and it will settle

 

[Tedinski]

Thanks for the info, bholler.
Is there a recipe for the mix? "x" amount of refractory cement to "y" amount of vermiculite?
I can see how if it's not soft enough, settling could be a problem. any small crack, and vermiculite would all end up down around your stove!
I've been pricing out vermiculite, and pricing kaowool on eBay. I'm thinking I could get kaowool cheaper than on ebay, but even there it's not so bad. I was just guessing at a couple hundred dollars a box.
How would too-hard vermiculite mix damage the flue? or flue liner?

For the kaowool, would 1/2" thick be sufficient? or 1"? All we use at work is the 1" blanket.
Everybody's being so helpful! thanks!

 

[bholler]

How would too-hard vermiculite mix damage the flue? or flue liner?

it can easily crack the chimney structure.

Is there a recipe for the mix? "x" amount of refractory cement to "y" amount of vermiculite?

No the companies that developed the products spent allot of time and money getting the mix right and testing it they are not going to tell you what it is.

I was just guessing at a couple hundred dollars a box.

At that price just order an insulation kit and be done with it.

For the kaowool, would 1/2" thick be sufficient? or 1"? All we use at work is the 1" blanket.

!/2" is what is needed to get you the zero clearance rating with the listed insulation.

 

[Tedinski]

well I sure wouldn't want to crack his chimney! that would be the opposite of saving money.

So... if 1/2" of kaowool will work, I guess I'll go with that, over a single wall flue?

 

[bholler]

So... if 1/2" of kaowool will work, I guess I'll go with that, over a single wall flue?

It will still not be to code or honor the ul listing but if you are not concerned with that it is better than nothing