Covid lockdown???

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
6,142
Downeast Maine
A family I knew back in NC got Covid and my friend's pregnant wife had to go to the ICU. They performed an emergency C section on baby that was six weeks early after a few days. The wife was intubated on a ventilator for a few weeks and somehow survived, but now needs speech, respiratory, and physical therapy. The baby was very small, I think less than 5 lbs, required tube feed through the umbilical cord, had to get kidney surgery at a week after "birth", but tested negative for covid, thankfully. Seems that the wife and baby have survived the worst of it and are now on the recovery path. Admittedly there were some preexisting conditions, but nobody was vaccinated. I think the family will be vaccinated going forward because it seems that natural immunity is poor, especially against delta.
 

thewoodlands

Minister of Fire
Aug 25, 2009
13,763
Foothills of The Adirondacks
Wow, that's wild for the St. Lawrence area. Stay safe!
These are our percentages of people with ages that are vaccinated.
People Vaccinated
At Least One Dose
Fully Vaccinated
Total

57,498
54,433
% of Total Population
53.4%
50.5%
Population ≥ 12 Years of Age
57,493
54,431
% of Population ≥ 12 Years of Age
61.3%
58%
Population ≥ 18 Years of Age
54,014
51,341
% of Population ≥ 18 Years of Age
62.7%
59.6%
Population ≥ 65 Years of Age
16,079
15,635
% of Population ≥ 65 Years of Age
83.1%
80.8%
 
  • Like
Reactions: clancey

mcdougy

Minister of Fire
Apr 15, 2014
676
ontario
Everyone just needs to keep doing their part.

Without a doubt, there are lies and mistakes being made and said

For the people that think this is not real, continue your belief.
Please Don't ridicule the majority of people that do believe that this is a possible life threatening situation.
A situation that you do have some control over.
Do nothing or get a vaccine.
The vaccine may not be the answer, but to the people who choose to receive it, I'm sure most think its their best chance of avoiding dying, And how can someone say there is anything wrong with that thinking?
The elephant in the room that is starting to show is that the non vaccinated people are contracting the virus, with symptoms in general worse than those that have received a vaccine.
I think society in general will loose sympathy quickly for the unfortunate people who die from covid 19 that choose not to take a vaccine. Justified or not i believe this will be the outcome.

I do have a curiosity as to why the non vaccinated/non believers there is a pandemic people who contract covid and become ill go the the hospital?

Can I ask fingerlakes fireplace and the others who refuse a vaccine " Will you go the hospital if you contract covid and your symptoms feel life threatening?" If so, can you explain how you will justify your "before illness" beliefs?
 
  • Like
Reactions: johneh and bholler

MTY

Feeling the Heat
Jan 9, 2019
488
Idaho
Some people may feel safer with the virus than with the government. I remember the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Johnson and Macnamara (sp?), "I am not a crook!", "I did not have sex with that woman!", Bengahzi "What difference does it make now?, The list goes on and on and on. After Bengazi I do not even have to mention other events of the last ten to fifteen years. When you are lied to constantly, you tend not to believe or trust.

I would not be surprised, if it turns out the vaccines have long term negative consequences, to once again hear, "What difference does it make?"

The above is not meant to portray my position on vaccines, but merely to suggest that there are reasons not to trust the government to be honest regarding them.

As far as going to the hospital if ill, I do not trust the ex, (it's that dishonesty thing) but if I was bleeding to death I hope I would not be too stubborn to let her call 911.
 

fbelec

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2005
3,051
Massachusetts
When you are lied to constantly, you tend not to believe or trust.
i agree with that. i choose to get the vaccine because of what is happening to the people around. i don't need someone to tell me what to do. but when it's the right thing
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,724
Eastern Long Island, NY
After Bengazi I do not even have to mention other events of the last ten to fifteen years.

Yeah Bengazi wasn't the big scandal it was made out to be. Several Republican led House committees couldn't find much in their final reports. Now if you had referenced the Tuskegee Syphilis study, then yes, I would agree.

But let's be honest, a lot of the doubt about the Covid vaccine is driven by propaganda. And in the modern day model of social media, propaganda is very profitable because it gets a lot of clicks and ad dollars. The irony is that the same news organizations and social media companies that broadcast this propaganda about the vaccines are requiring their employees to get the vaccine if they want to come back to the office.

I don't know if any of the vaccine's are going to have long term effects, but I have seen and read enough to make an educated choice.
 

clancey

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2021
1,398
Colorado
After all the lies that I have been listening to with all these corrupt politicians and all their like--I will take my chance with the virus..Hope I go to heaven and be with the Lord. One interesting cite is the CDC web page that will put the scare into you all..especially when they started writing about the green zones then on the end telling everybody it was false when its in the literature..How scary is this especially with all of the mandates that these crazy people are putting proclamations about---just leave us make our own decisions about how we are going to handle this--just like we did the flu's..We handle our ideas and you handle yours to the best of your ability to feel safe and keep your families safe. Green zones are for us who do not believe in the vaccines and we are all gathered together and moved into these green zones to not let us have contact with anyone....how scary is that especially when the people vaccinated might be the ones passing the virus around to the unprotected ones..One article to read is: "Interim operations considered for Institutional shielding approach to people studies".. They say its false with their funky graphing but its right there in the literature...Take the whole day to read the cdc literature and at the end of it" We all will be scared S---....Yea I will make my own decisions about my body and expect you to do the same---we still have our constitution even if it is hanging by a thread---these are God given rights...clancey
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,675
South Puget Sound, WA
Better hope that you stay healthy if in a denier state. Medical systems are overtaxed and at risk of shutting down. In Alabama, every ICU bed is full and all are occupied by unvaccinated people. If you have a heart attack, cancer, etc. tough luck. Ambulances may be as far as you get. In Mobile, they are roaming the city in vain in search of an available bed. Against this backdrop, the Covid-19 delta variant cases are expected to double next month. This is the same scenario that played out in India.
Getting vaccinated and wearing a mask is not only about protecting yourself, it's about protecting the people that provide medical care, food, and services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vinny11950

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,675
South Puget Sound, WA
Green zones are for us who do not believe in the vaccines and we are all gathered together and moved into these green zones to not let us have contact with anyone....how scary
That is BS and disinformation based on a hypothetical doc written up last year as the CDC explored options to protect the most vulnerable in poorest communities with limited options.
Summary here:
Snopes review:

fear meme.jpg
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
25,573
central pa
After all the lies that I have been listening to with all these corrupt politicians and all their like--I will take my chance with the virus..Hope I go to heaven and be with the Lord. One interesting cite is the CDC web page that will put the scare into you all..especially when they started writing about the green zones then on the end telling everybody it was false when its in the literature..How scary is this especially with all of the mandates that these crazy people are putting proclamations about---just leave us make our own decisions about how we are going to handle this--just like we did the flu's..We handle our ideas and you handle yours to the best of your ability to feel safe and keep your families safe. Green zones are for us who do not believe in the vaccines and we are all gathered together and moved into these green zones to not let us have contact with anyone....how scary is that especially when the people vaccinated might be the ones passing the virus around to the unprotected ones..One article to read is: "Interim operations considered for Institutional shielding approach to people studies".. They say its false with their funky graphing but its right there in the literature...Take the whole day to read the cdc literature and at the end of it" We all will be scared S---....Yea I will make my own decisions about my body and expect you to do the same---we still have our constitution even if it is hanging by a thread---these are God given rights...clancey
This isn't about what you believe. This is about looking at the actual facts. Talking to people who are dealing with it every day and realizing this isn't about politics religion or beliefs. It is about doing the right thing to protect yourself and your fellow human beings as best as you can. If you really are worried about our country and humans in general why would you not do everything within your power to help control the spread of this virus?


You also seem to forget that the CDC NIAID etc are not politicians. They are scientists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fbelec

clancey

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2021
1,398
Colorado
Right now with Fauci--they are the worse kind--"scientists" they say...As for as I can tell they have medicines out there that could have helped with the symptoms and no one can even mention its name on the net or anywhere and they blasted it as being no good..a whole group of qualified doctors on the steps of the capital they also banned from speaking and deleted the videos' ..Heck they even banned our own former president from speaking---you trust them --go ahead----but not me.. The only way you help these people is by wearing your mask and make sure you have the right one for yourself so that you can protect me and you at the same time..make sure you get those plastic separators that keep people distanced from the counter having people with the false hope of protection...They gather bacteria and there is more of a chance to get the virus from them just by being near them.. We are are doing the best that we can not to spread the virus and right now there is not one good way that people can trust. We can do the simple things keeping ourselves clean and washing our hands and coughing in our shoulders and not go out if we are sick or coughing and getting tested if necessary and if you can stay home a bit more as well...We are doing the best that we can under the circumstances and we are facing very rough times ahead...clancey
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
25,573
central pa
Right now with Fauci--they are the worse kind--"scientists" they say...As for as I can tell they have medicines out there that could have helped with the symptoms and no one can even mention its name on the net or anywhere and they blasted it as being no good..a whole group of qualified doctors on the steps of the capital they also banned from speaking and deleted the videos' ..Heck they even banned our own former president from speaking---you trust them --go ahead----but not me.. The only way you help these people is by wearing your mask and make sure you have the right one for yourself so that you can protect me and you at the same time..make sure you get those plastic separators that keep people distanced from the counter having people with the false hope of protection...They gather bacteria and there is more of a chance to get the virus from them just by being near them.. We are are doing the best that we can not to spread the virus and right now there is not one good way that people can trust. We can do the simple things keeping ourselves clean and washing our hands and coughing in our shoulders and not go out if we are sick or coughing and getting tested if necessary and if you can stay home a bit more as well...We are doing the best that we can under the circumstances and we are facing very rough times ahead...clancey
Dr Fauci has been respected and trusted by every president since 1984 when he was appointed head of the NIAID. He is respected and trusted by the vast majority of professionals in the field. Why do you choose to listen to the few who don't trust him over the many who do?

Why do you choose to believe only the few studies that support your viewpoint instead of the many that don't?
 

clancey

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2021
1,398
Colorado
With all the information out there from all kinds of different sources people are going to have to decide for themselves on this Dr. Fauci..I personally think he should be thrown in jail..clancey
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
25,573
central pa
With all the information out there from all kinds of different sources people are going to have to decide for themselves on this Dr. Fauci..I personally think he should be thrown in jail..clancey
Based upon what? Why is it he was trusted and respected by everyone for so long but one man says he shouldn't be listened to so now he belongs in jail?
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
6,142
Downeast Maine
Contrary to what Fox news says, not all information is created equal. Who would you believe when giving medical diagnoses, a panel of eight doctors that agree, or one guy that has a different opinion?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
25,573
central pa
With all the information out there from all kinds of different sources people are going to have to decide for themselves on this Dr. Fauci..I personally think he should be thrown in jail..clancey
You also don't seem to understand that what Dr Fauci says is not simply his opinion. Or even based upon just his research. He is the head of a large scientific organization. That organization does their own research as well as analyzing research done all around the world. The results of that is what Fauci is reporting.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,574
Eastern Long Island NY
...We can do the simple things keeping ourselves clean and washing our hands and coughing in our shoulders and not go out if we are sick or coughing and getting tested if necessary and if you can stay home a bit more as well...

Like wearing a mask. Like taking a vaccine that has been developed in one of the most capitalist companies of this country (Pfizer).

What I don't get is this: you are of the age (ok, I presume) that you remember the joy of getting the polio vaccine because it works, because it prevented polio, because it was tested and safe. Or at least it was much, much safer than the option of running the risk of getting polio.

The covid vaccines are tested SO MUCH more than what was standard back then, our standards and protocols are so much better now.
The vaccines prevent death, even if not all infection. They do so particularly well, at 95 pct efficacy, which is larger than most vaccines out there.

I wish that those refusing the vaccines would be ineligible for hospital care. To save some of the unnecessary, aggravating strain on those working in medical facilities, such as my wife. The impact of seeing most people you treat die, suffocate, alone - THAT is what you are doing. If you pass away, that is the consequence of your choice (it is entirely preventable!), but why is it ok to burden others to care for you when you suffocate away.

Same with the hurricane here. Everybody agrees that you have the freedom to do as you want, but if you go out on the ocean now, you'll be on your own.

In the medical field, it is the kindness and selflessness (the psychological impact is HUGE) of those working there that people that don't get vaccinated are abusing.

Again, you come here for advice on your stove. Why? These are experts and we all learn from them. The researchers at Pfizer and the CDC and the FDA (etc) are experts too. Not following their advice (while following the advice from hearth.com) is just utterly inconsistent.

Rant over. It upsets me greatly.
 

clancey

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2021
1,398
Colorado
You can rant on all you want but for the other side of beliefs we never put you on the blame game,, We really do not blame you people for your beliefs and you way of life...If you want to wear a mask good--if you want to separate and not go to functions good and if you want to get the vaccine good--your choices---it's when you approach on my freedom and give me mandates or else even to the point of arresting people alone fishing in a boat with no mask or shopping in a hardware store with few people while the larger stores are wide open. Or shutting down restaurants when they try their best and spend a lot of money to try to accommodate to make their places more safe..These small businesses are the back bone of our society and our history is the backbone of our society and look at the borders when it was so unnecessary. Are those people vaccinated and are they held in cages like animals confined..I could go on and on but one thing about it I do not put the "blame" game on you like you do so many of us...So you just rant on and get upset if you want to for there are other sides to the story that is just as legitimate as yours..By the way---the nurses job is not the only important job in this country and my taxes pay for health care and all kinds of things and I have a perfect right to go to a hospital if I am sick or not..if if my fault or not for that is one freedom that I have left...clancey
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
25,573
central pa
You can rant on all you want but for the other side of beliefs we never put you on the blame game,, We really do not blame you people for your beliefs and you way of life...If you want to wear a mask good--if you want to separate and not go to functions good and if you want to get the vaccine good--your choices---it's when you approach on my freedom and give me mandates or else even to the point of arresting people alone fishing in a boat with no mask or shopping in a hardware store with few people while the larger stores are wide open. Or shutting down restaurants when they try their best and spend a lot of money to try to accommodate to make their places more safe..These small businesses are the back bone of our society and our history is the backbone of our society and look at the borders when it was so unnecessary. Are those people vaccinated and are they held in cages like animals confined..I could go on and on but one thing about it I do not put the "blame" game on you like you do so many of us...So you just rant on and get upset if you want to for there are other sides to the story that is just as legitimate as yours..By the way---the nurses job is not the only important job in this country and my taxes pay for health care and all kinds of things and I have a perfect right to go to a hospital if I am sick or not..if if my fault or not for that is one freedom that I have left...clancey
Again this isn't about beliefs. This is about actual facts. You can believe the vaccine is ineffective. You can believe it contains stem cells. You can believe certain drugs are the answer. But that doesn't change what the actual testing says about those things
 
  • Like
Reactions: vinny11950

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,574
Eastern Long Island NY
You can rant on all you want but for the other side of beliefs we never put you on the blame game,, We really do not blame you people for your beliefs and you way of life...If you want to wear a mask good--if you want to separate and not go to functions good and if you want to get the vaccine good--your choices---it's when you approach on my freedom and give me mandates or else even to the point of arresting people alone fishing in a boat with no mask or shopping in a hardware store with few people while the larger stores are wide open. Or shutting down restaurants when they try their best and spend a lot of money to try to accommodate to make their places more safe..These small businesses are the back bone of our society and our history is the backbone of our society and look at the borders when it was so unnecessary. Are those people vaccinated and are they held in cages like animals confined..I could go on and on but one thing about it I do not put the "blame" game on you like you do so many of us...So you just rant on and get upset if you want to for there are other sides to the story that is just as legitimate as yours..By the way---the nurses job is not the only important job in this country and my taxes pay for health care and all kinds of things and I have a perfect right to go to a hospital if I am sick or not..if if my fault or not for that is one freedom that I have left...clancey

I see your point and I vehemently disagree, but that is what it is.

I didn't talk about arresting people. I talked about a choice, the freedom of being on your own, but then to not come and ask for help when the consequences of a choice hit one hard.

Anyway, you are entitled to your view. I am just quite puzzled, see the polio vaccine I mentioned.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,675
South Puget Sound, WA
We are in a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. As this phase grows worse, some of those waiting to get help are not going to make it. This scene in FL yesterday is what happens when hospitals get overwhelmed due to a non-stop stream of sick, unvaccinated people showing up.

fla.jpg
 

tlc1976

Minister of Fire
Oct 7, 2012
846
Northwest Lower Michigan
Long term effects… Covid itself has already proven to give a LOT of people long term effects. So I’ll do my best to avoid the danger at hand and do my best to maintain a quality of life to see the future. Maybe the vaccine will give later effects, maybe it won’t. I could also end up with cancer, in a paralyzing car accident, whatever.

Businesses…. Everyone who goes into a business unmasked and unvaccinated is hurting that business. Every employee and fellow customer who they spread the virus to, is one step closer to that business having to close their doors. Especially small businesses which are the backbone of our society, who don’t have the resources to be shut down. It hurts when it’s your own customers who won’t do their part to slow the spread, and don’t seem to give a crap about spreading it to your workers. You wonder every day if they’ve spread it so much that this is the day you’re gonna get shut down, or worse.

Every time a person goes into a hospital with preventable Covid complications, it hurts everyone as well. Drains resources of the workers as much as physical resources. Every medical worker that it is spread to, is more resources lost, and they’re not easily replaced. We think medical care costs are outrageous now, just wait until this is over. And it may never be over, as the anti crowd maintains the breeding ground for one rapid mutation after another. We all want to go on with our lives, but they are the ones making sure the virus keeps going as strong as possible. Ironic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: semipro

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,675
South Puget Sound, WA
Closing the door on this thread. Once again, the conversation has gone off the rails. Enough.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.