Hello all. I thought i had decided to install a Hearthstone woodstove (Manchester) but to throw a wrench in this decision I recently learned of the wood furnace option. My local dealer carries a PSG Caddy and suggested it as an alternative to a wood stove. I was curious if any of you guys considered this option when researching the best option for heating your home? The benefits are appealing as it would be connected directly to my existing duct work which means better heat distribution and I can load it twice a day or so and just let it cook. The downsides are getting the wood to the basement (though I think I can repurpose a foundation window as a wood shoot), no aesthetic value in watching the fire from the living room, and I'm still dependant upon electricity for the blower to operate (though perhaps a generator just foroperating the blower would be a reasonable purchase). Cost is comparable so i cant help but view the Caddy as a better bang for your buck. So what am I missing?
Deciding between Hearthstone Stove or PSG Wood Furnace
- Thread starter BuckeyeAaron
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Howdy BA! Who is your local dealer? FYI, some of them are really high priced...some, not so much.
Also, SBI (parent company of PSG) makes a version of the Caddy that is sold in big box stores for DIY installs...much less $$, on sale at Menards this week for $1335.
How big and what style is your house? Some houses lend themselves to wood stove heat better than others. Some are better candidates for a furnace, which will heat the basement some too, just from radiant heat (keeps the floors warmer)
Do you have a chimney available in both spots?
Also, SBI (parent company of PSG) makes a version of the Caddy that is sold in big box stores for DIY installs...much less $$, on sale at Menards this week for $1335.
How big and what style is your house? Some houses lend themselves to wood stove heat better than others. Some are better candidates for a furnace, which will heat the basement some too, just from radiant heat (keeps the floors warmer)
Do you have a chimney available in both spots?
Hi Brenndatomu. Looks like we are in the same region. The folks I have been working with is Shetler's located on the eastern edge of Middlefield (almost to Mespo). They are selling the Hearthstone Manchester for $2500 but will have a 10% sale during June and July.
Our house is 1800 sq ft and is a ranch with a full size unfinished basement (we may hope to partially finish it in the next two to five years). We currently have a Heatilator fireplace (cam be gas or wood and currently have it rigged for wood). This set up is for pure aesthetic purposes. If we did the stove, I would have to do some minor modifications to the raised hearth, mantle, and add non-combustable materials and then run the stove chimney through our existing chimney. I like the idea of having a pretty fire to look at but heat distribution is a concern as I suspect the stove will cook us out of our living room and kitchen since they are somewhat open concept but leave our bathrooms and bedrooms cold as they are access from one main hallway. To have any hope at getting the heat to move we would have to set up some pedestal fans. I also like the idea of being able to heat the most used areas of the house completely electric free in the event our electricity goes out.
The Caddy is attractive as I can use our existing ductwork (we heat with heat pump and auxiliary electric backup right now) to truly disperse the heat and I can really load the furnace up with fuel. The main drawbacks is getting wood to the basement easily (I would have to get a wood chute installed somehow) and no longer be able to watch those pretty flames (although I suppose I could still have a decorative wood fire in the Heatilator even though we would be sucking our heat out by doing so). My other concern is if our electricity goes out our furnace will no longer heat our home unless we get a generator to run the blower on the furnace. I'm not opposed to this but it is one more aspect to consider. No chimney available in the basement so that would be another item to figure out. I didn't grab the pricing on the Caddy but I believe it is in the $2700 range with a blower.
Thanks for any insight you may have.
Our house is 1800 sq ft and is a ranch with a full size unfinished basement (we may hope to partially finish it in the next two to five years). We currently have a Heatilator fireplace (cam be gas or wood and currently have it rigged for wood). This set up is for pure aesthetic purposes. If we did the stove, I would have to do some minor modifications to the raised hearth, mantle, and add non-combustable materials and then run the stove chimney through our existing chimney. I like the idea of having a pretty fire to look at but heat distribution is a concern as I suspect the stove will cook us out of our living room and kitchen since they are somewhat open concept but leave our bathrooms and bedrooms cold as they are access from one main hallway. To have any hope at getting the heat to move we would have to set up some pedestal fans. I also like the idea of being able to heat the most used areas of the house completely electric free in the event our electricity goes out.
The Caddy is attractive as I can use our existing ductwork (we heat with heat pump and auxiliary electric backup right now) to truly disperse the heat and I can really load the furnace up with fuel. The main drawbacks is getting wood to the basement easily (I would have to get a wood chute installed somehow) and no longer be able to watch those pretty flames (although I suppose I could still have a decorative wood fire in the Heatilator even though we would be sucking our heat out by doing so). My other concern is if our electricity goes out our furnace will no longer heat our home unless we get a generator to run the blower on the furnace. I'm not opposed to this but it is one more aspect to consider. No chimney available in the basement so that would be another item to figure out. I didn't grab the pricing on the Caddy but I believe it is in the $2700 range with a blower.
Thanks for any insight you may have.
Wood1Dennis
Burning Hunk
Hi Buckeye, That is an interesting decision you have there. We are building new (broke ground last week) and I was faced with the same decision in the planning stage last year. When I started, I know only that I was going to heat with wood. I was deciding between a wood stove and a wood furnace. As is turns out, we decided on the furnace, we are going with the PSG Caddy. My decision (I spent a lot of time thinking about it) hinged on a few factors;
#1 the heat distribution question. I was assured by wood stove guys that you can get the heat from a stove to heat the entire house, but as you start asking the detailed questions, you find out that it is not always so easy and that some trial and error might be required. At least that was my take. As you said, the trick is to get the heat evenly distributed through the house. The wood furnace completely eliminates that problem.
#2, our home layout lends itself to a furnace. I have a perfect place above the mechanical room in the basement to run the chimney chase straight up to nearly the high point of the roof. I would have had to get creative to get a chimney in the future living space of the basement. I am building a wood chute in a basement wall so getting wood downstairs will not be a problem. We will have a gas fireplace upstairs for the aesthetics & no dirt mess from wood in the living room.
And #3, the local contractor who is installing the entire HVAC system is a Caddy dealer so I will have one source for everything. They also provided me with references who spoke very highly of the Caddy.
One other thought, according to their website you can heat with the Caddy in the case of a power outage, just have to keep the fire small and possibly open up the cold air return duct to help the heat convection. We are going to have a backup generator, but the ability to get wood heat in an outage was appealing to me, that is better than no heat at all which is what most people running gas furnaces get. We will use the wood furnace as our main source of heat. I can't give you a report as to if these were the best choices, but I am confident that the Caddy furnace will work well in our situation.
#1 the heat distribution question. I was assured by wood stove guys that you can get the heat from a stove to heat the entire house, but as you start asking the detailed questions, you find out that it is not always so easy and that some trial and error might be required. At least that was my take. As you said, the trick is to get the heat evenly distributed through the house. The wood furnace completely eliminates that problem.
#2, our home layout lends itself to a furnace. I have a perfect place above the mechanical room in the basement to run the chimney chase straight up to nearly the high point of the roof. I would have had to get creative to get a chimney in the future living space of the basement. I am building a wood chute in a basement wall so getting wood downstairs will not be a problem. We will have a gas fireplace upstairs for the aesthetics & no dirt mess from wood in the living room.
And #3, the local contractor who is installing the entire HVAC system is a Caddy dealer so I will have one source for everything. They also provided me with references who spoke very highly of the Caddy.
One other thought, according to their website you can heat with the Caddy in the case of a power outage, just have to keep the fire small and possibly open up the cold air return duct to help the heat convection. We are going to have a backup generator, but the ability to get wood heat in an outage was appealing to me, that is better than no heat at all which is what most people running gas furnaces get. We will use the wood furnace as our main source of heat. I can't give you a report as to if these were the best choices, but I am confident that the Caddy furnace will work well in our situation.
Karl_northwind
Minister of Fire
The thing to remember is that a heavy stove like a hearthstone takes a long time to heat up. I have to baby mine for a solid hour before I can leave it unattended. it's different if the stove is warm/hot, but from room temperature it's a long time. I can come home from work at 630, light the stove, tend it for an hour to get it rolling nicely, and then after a couple hours, it really starts pouring off the heat, and then it's time to go to bed.
for real heating purposes if someone's not home all day, I'd go with something semi-automated, be it boiler or furnace.
for real heating purposes if someone's not home all day, I'd go with something semi-automated, be it boiler or furnace.
Those are all really good points and I'm happy to have that I sight. I really love the idea of the furnace but two issues may be problematic:
1: Chimney. Since this would be going in an already built house the chimney is will have to find a way out. Is it possible to angle the chimney through the foundation wall and then straight up along the side of the house? If a straight shot is needed from the basement through the roof I could be facing an issue.
2: wood consumption. The firebox will be much larger than a stove so one could obviously use more wood per load. But does that equate to more wood overall? One guy said as much as 24 cord supply could be needed. I lack the space from that much fuel. Maybe this is a "worst case scenario" though.
1: Chimney. Since this would be going in an already built house the chimney is will have to find a way out. Is it possible to angle the chimney through the foundation wall and then straight up along the side of the house? If a straight shot is needed from the basement through the roof I could be facing an issue.
2: wood consumption. The firebox will be much larger than a stove so one could obviously use more wood per load. But does that equate to more wood overall? One guy said as much as 24 cord supply could be needed. I lack the space from that much fuel. Maybe this is a "worst case scenario" though.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Why would you have to angle it? You can't run straight out through the wall? That's normally how its done...if the dirt is too high you can dig down and install the cleanout tee/chimney base in a "window well"
I think it would be hard if not impossible to burn 24 cord in a Caddy in 12 months let alone a 5-6 month heating season. Most people use ~4-6 cord per year in a Caddy.
Perhaps angled was the wrong way to phrase it. I think I'd have enough space to send it through the wall and not have to excavate any soil.
4 to 6 cords is much more reasonable. Maybe going this route makes more sense given our situation.
Ideally I would also consider an outdoor burner/boiler but I'm afraid the cost/ROI would be far too high/long.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Now those will eat some wood! And you are right...usually high initial investment
Wood1Dennis
Burning Hunk
OMG, I am way to old to make that much firewood! I am expecting to be in the 3-4 cord area. Especially with very good insulation and windows. Our place is pretty small too at 1700 square feet. Wood consumption and high cost were the main reasons that I ruled out the OWB.
Agreed. That much fuel would be a huge time commitment. It would be impossible for me to gather and process that much and forget about sustainably supplying that much year after year.
My boss went the OWB route and has $10k in the unit alone plus the tubing, wiring, heat exchanger, wood shed, blah blah, etc. It would take 15 years for that to pay off. He won't be going anywhere though and has 60 acres to fuel it so i suppose for him it made sense.
Wood1Dennis
Burning Hunk
60 Acres or not, you still have to make the wood - unless you have a lot of kids to put to work
I agree with the payback, it still has to make sense, and 15 years is pretty long.
Karl_northwind
Minister of Fire
Let's mention here that the OWB of 10 years ago is not the OWB available today. modern gasifiers can cut the wood use by 30-50% over an old smokey OWB. As of the beginning of the year you can only get EPA NSPS Certified models. there are several ones I have experience with, and you can find them here: (broken link removed to https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-hydronic-heaters)
that said, there are many options, and if things like ductwork are in place and the chimney is do-able, a good self regulating forced air unit will do fine by you as long as you feed it good dry wood.
that said, there are many options, and if things like ductwork are in place and the chimney is do-able, a good self regulating forced air unit will do fine by you as long as you feed it good dry wood.
24 cords of wood use in a caddy ? Hogwash
I have the biggest one they make a MAX caddy and I'd be surprised if I burn 5-6 cords in a cold winter . So far this warm winter we had I don't think that I even burned 3 full cords yet . I'm in northern Pennsylvania in a 2,000 sq ft house .
I love my caddy .it wasn't cheap but it was worth every penny to me .the psg caddy lineup are known for their quality construction and long clean burns .granted mine is their *largest model* but I can get 12-14 hour burns in the dead of winter easily. For us a forced furnace made the most sense . The heat is there at the touch of a button on the thermostat , it's even heat in every room and it's controllable like a gas furnace .
I have the biggest one they make a MAX caddy and I'd be surprised if I burn 5-6 cords in a cold winter . So far this warm winter we had I don't think that I even burned 3 full cords yet . I'm in northern Pennsylvania in a 2,000 sq ft house .
I love my caddy .it wasn't cheap but it was worth every penny to me .the psg caddy lineup are known for their quality construction and long clean burns .granted mine is their *largest model* but I can get 12-14 hour burns in the dead of winter easily. For us a forced furnace made the most sense . The heat is there at the touch of a button on the thermostat , it's even heat in every room and it's controllable like a gas furnace .
TheBigIron
Feeling the Heat
Have you considered both? Not saying that you want or need both, but could be an option depending on budget? I have a stove on the main floor and a furnace that is hooked into the ductwork and depending on the weather I have usually 1 or the other going, sometimes both...
Finances wouldn't allow this. Not at once anyhow. I'm leaning towards the Caddy this year and I suppose down the road look into a smaller stove for the family room but it wouldn't be anytime soon. For now, it's one or the other.
TheBigIron
Feeling the Heat
I am sure that you will not regret the Caddy, I know MANY satisfied users here on Hearth. Would your stove be free standing or an insert? How is your wood supply? You have wood cut split and stacked for 2016 I know that the Caddy and the Tundra loves very dry wood. @brenndatomu suggested a possible DIY furnace from the box store. What are you leaning towards if you decide on furnace??
If we do the stove it will be free-standing. Wood supply is limited so if we actually do this this year I may have to buy some from my boss (good, seasoned material). And for the furnace I like the Caddy because we have a local dealer to help with install and maintenance. I'm sure there lots of guys out there with the know how to install one of these furnaces but I'm not one of them.
After doing some more research though I came across a post stating that my existing duct work likely won't meet clearance code requirements for a wood fire furnace (since it was installed for heatpump use) which means this install has likely grown. I'm not sure how big/expensive of a job this is but lowering the ducts would be feasible in our situation. That could throw a wrench in this whole thing.
TheBigIron
Feeling the Heat
You could lower you own duct work 2" from your floor joists. I think at the plenum you need a 6" to combustibles for the first 2 feet. You would also need a back draft damper above your a/c coil.
I know some people that have free standing wood stoves that love the heat they throw off. They use fans to move the heat throughout the house. Are there any ceiling fans located where the stove would be? Just curious what are you going to pay for the Caddy and install if you don't mind? I paid under $1800 for my Tundra and I know they stay under $2000 in my area. Tundra has made upgrades might want to look into that? Just my 2 cents
!
I know some people that have free standing wood stoves that love the heat they throw off. They use fans to move the heat throughout the house. Are there any ceiling fans located where the stove would be? Just curious what are you going to pay for the Caddy and install if you don't mind? I paid under $1800 for my Tundra and I know they stay under $2000 in my area. Tundra has made upgrades might want to look into that? Just my 2 cents
!You could lower you own duct work 2" from your floor joists. I think at the plenum you need a 6" to combustibles for the first 2 feet. You would also need a back draft damper above your a/c coil.
I know some people that have free standing wood stoves that love the heat they throw off. They use fans to move the heat throughout the house. Are there any ceiling fans located where the stove would be? Just curious what are you going to pay for the Caddy and install if you don't mind? I paid under $1800 for my Tundra and I know they stay under $2000 in my area. Tundra has made upgrades might want to look into that? Just my 2 cents
We do have a ceiling fan in the same room which is peaked. I think we would have decent success going the stove route but getting heat to the back bedrooms could be challenging. That's why the furnace route is so appealing.
I haven't got a quote yet on the install for the Caddy as I was planing to do the stove. I hope to stop into the dealers shop next week and get more details.
TheBigIron
Feeling the Heat
TheBigIron
Feeling the Heat
I am reading another thread and have you considered the Drolet heatpro? I think that they are the same firebox as the Caddy? Might want to do some research on it, it might be cheaper?? Trying to save you $$$$....
I've heard of them and think I even briefly researched them. But I'm not sure where the closest dealer is.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
I think it is 6" for the first 6' for most, but not all wood furnaces.
Who's your dealer?
Heatpro is the same larger firebox like the Max Caddy. Available as DIY same as Tundra...Menards and the like.
$2500 and change normally at Menards...was $2300 on sale a few weeks ago, however it has been on sale as low as $2k in the past few months (sale price plus 11% rebate)
Still Shetler's in Middlefield. They carry PSG and the Hearthstone stove I was considering.
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