Defrost a frozen pipe-PVC, Underground

[eclecticcottage]

Our neighbors have a sump pump in thier basement that feeds into a PVC pipe that dumps over the cliff into the lake (fairly common here). There's a cleanout right near the house, then probably 60-70' of pipe that leads to the lake. Somewhere in that 60-70' it froze, or so it seems. Their sump pump is cycling every few minutes trying to pump out the water but it is just coming up the cleanout rather than going out the end of the pipe (however since the cleanout appears to be about 3-4' higher than the pipe, it's only pumping out a tiny bit, then the pump cuts off and the water goes back into the sump pump hole and restarts the cylce over again). It appears they have a french drain or weeping tile that runs into the sump pump basin that's feeding this-there's a 4" pvc pipe that's trickling water into the basin. We're afraid it's going to fry the sump pump eventually and flood the basement. We tried dumping buckets of hot water into the clean out, but that didn't work. We're trying to figure out how to run a hose out into the cleanout and down the pipe to the "blockage" and run hot water into it, but our garden hoses are buried in our shed for the year, so that's going to be a challenge. The weather forcast isn't calling for above freezing temps anytime soon either, so letting nature take care of it probably isn't going to work.

any ideas on how to defrost this?? Can't use the ol' hair dryer trick since it's underground.

 

[B-Mod]

Go buy some new hoses. That is about your only choice, or reroute the sump pump output so it just dumps the water out side of the house. Also, they should have a check valve in the pipe a foot or two above the sump pump, so water cannot drain back into the sump pit, that is a plumbing code rule.

 

[veemaxx]

Something to lower the freezing point of the water might work. Some methanol down the clean out with the sump pump off or maybe some calcium chloride or salt in the sump could do the trick

 

[eclecticcottage]

Hmm...we've got a "dirty water" pump we might be able to use that we could reroute. There appears to be a hole that we could run a hose out of for now. Their pump is plumbed into larger piping that we don't have a way to do anything with. I guess one way or the other, we're digging our hoses out!

Check valve sounds like a good idea, we'll have to let them know. Never had a basement, so we've never had to deal with sump pumps, lol.

 

[Ehouse]

Unless the end of the pipe is hanging in mid air out over the cliff, Slide a piece of pipe or rebar in just to check. You may be able to bust it out from that end.

 

[ironpony]

check valve as stated above. check end of pipe probably clogged there. if it is buried even shallow it is not likely to freeze solid. salt in cleanout. all of the above are good ideas.

 

[eclecticcottage]

Unless the end of the pipe is hanging in mid air out over the cliff, Slide a piece of pipe or rebar in just to check. You may be able to bust it out from that end.

Actually, it is. I'd say at least 5-6', and our cliff is in the range of 20' from the beach to the top. It's placed so far out to try to prevent the run off from eroding it any more than the lake itself already does. There is an ice formation (like an upside down stalactite which I can't think of the name for) from the ice buildup on the beach up to the pipe. I think the sump pump pumps out so little water at a time that it isn't much more than a trickle by the time it reaches the end of the pipe, allowing it to slowly build an ice dam.

I forgot to mention we did try salt in the cleanout as well. Didn't work.

 

[midwestcoast]

That column of ice up from the beach and 5-6' hanging out in mid air is almost surely the problem. Same thing happened at a groundwater treatment facility I work on. The 8" steel discharge froze solid from the outfall weir up about 10' to the end of the pipe.
Possibly the plug has migrated back into the underground portion of the pipe too, but less likely.
If you could safely cut off the overhanging pipe at the cliff edge you might remove the blockage. Leave enough of a stub that they could re-attach the cut piece later with a coupling.

 

[Ehouse]

Cut that 5-6' off the end and ream it out. After it is clear 2-3 dollars of Glue/solvent and a connector, or better yet skip the glue and just friction fit for next time.

 

[eclecticcottage]

So...there's a second pipe...orangeburg...that might be the actual pipe the sump pump uses. We just hooked up our little sump that runs on a garden hose for now. There's a mess of plumbing there, at least that should keep it from flooding. Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[Jags]

There is an ice formation (like an upside down stalactite which I can't think of the name for)

Not that it is much help, but...stalagmite.

 

[midwestcoast]

Not that it is much help, but...stalagmite.

Until it connects with a stalactite hanging down & then it's just called a Column. Not nearly as fun to say...

 

[peakbagger]

My friend has a 800 foot plus well line. One winter it froze, he was pretty sure it was near this house so he got a roll of 1/4" plastic tubing and set up a large pot of water on a woodstove with a pump. He then inserted the tube up the water line and started pumping warm water which into the tube which then melted the ice in the line ahead of the tubing allowing him to slide in farther plus the water running back provided lubrication for the tubing. He eventually hit the frozen part about 150' in and had water the rest of the winter. The next year he hired a backhoe and buried the line 8' deep.

 

[WiscWoody]

Up here septic pipes freeze up if they're not covered with snow and the temps are low enough to freeze up the holding tank and the pipes. The piping isn't buried very deep in the ground and if they do freeze it usually needs to be steamed out by a septic company that also does the tank pumping and hauling of waste. It runs around $200-$300 to have it done. I put straw over my pipes and hope for snow cover early in the winter. This year I'm covered pretty well, and that's good since it's been -10F to-30F for lows for six weeks now. I'd hate to lose the use of the facilities!

 

[rwhite]

Beings that its orangeberg pipe I'd bet on a collapsed section or root wad that may be holding water and letting it freeze or holding back junk that got through the sump. . If you can dig this time of year it may be time for new pipe. For those that don't know orangeberg is nothing more than carboard covered with pine pitch or tar. Very common during WWII when iron was not available.

 

[greg13]

For now just go with some lay flat hose and dump above ground. You will end up digging to find where it is frozen now, easier to just let it thaw in the spring.

 

[G-rott]

If it is a big deal to get it flowing again a hot water (heated) power washer unit will thaw most anything, you need to have a temporary system set up to remove the water that flows back to the sump as you "steam" the line.

 

[lindnova]

A lot of the orangeberg has asbestos in it. It is not a very strong pipe. I have seen that stuff in a lot of electrical conduits encased in concrete. Not much left in service underground. I would say it likely needs to be replaced. Only thing you could try would be to run a hose or tubing down the cleanout and use hot water if you can get the tubing close enough to the frozen area. Best to temp it and wait until spring.

I have a 4" pvc garage drain and when it freezes at the outlet there is no reaming it out. I use hot water with a garden hose up the outlet and it takes care of it quickly.