Do I choose Jotul 445 or Hearthstone Shelburne

[1870farmhouse]

Trying to decide between Jotul 445 or Hearthstone Shelburn or possibly a rear venting woodstove you may suggest similar to these stoves.
Looking to heat a 1100 msg home, 550sf per floor.

Buying in Delaware to save taxes and quoted 4500 for Shelburn with heat shield and blower, 4215 for craftsbury with shield/blower. The difference in firebox size 1.3 to 2 and only $300 more really makes me not think twice of the Shelburn over craftsbury.

Jotul has a 2cf box but 20” logs can be done instead of 18” of the Shelburn.

I’m looking for good 8+ hour hopefully over 10 hour burn times as I’m away for work 9–10 hours during the day.

Only interested in stoves with air intake connection ability as I rather draw outside air directly/controlled to feed stove than draw cold air through my house to feed the stove.

The Pacific energy alderlea T5 was my favorite but not offered in rear vent so there goes that idea.

Currently running a 2003 Lopi Sheffield with no heat shield or blower or insulated chimney liner.

Double walled stainless insulated liner arrived and being installed as soon as new stove I pick and purchase gets delivered so with insulated liner, outside air intake, heat shield/blower I expect a big jump or am I nuts?

Currently the Sheffield vents through a 6 foot long 6 inch stove pipe just to get past the damper. Chimney is about 22’ feet tall.

 

[bigealta]

Is your chimney in the center of your house or on an outside wall?

I'm Assuming you are going in a masonry fireplace opening or in front of one.

 

[1870farmhouse]

Outside wall.

It’s a masonry fireplace built in 1915. Firebrick lined firebox and chimney is concrete block covered in stucco.
Chimney liner is 11x12” smooth block. Thankfully that will make it easy to put the double wall insulated chimney liner I purchased. As it’s outside diameter is 7-7.25”

 

[bigealta]

Ok copy, so loosing thermal mass heating inside the house is a non issue and the insulated liner will be a good upgrade.
I have been running an f400 in an interior masonry fireplace since 2019.
I love the durability of my f400 and it looks nice and the large ceramic glass door is great.

The limiting factor is the shorter burn times.
I'm definitely not getting 10 hour burn times, not even close. Not even small coals at 10 hours.

That said, I prefer to light "fresh" new fires rather than trying to use low level of coals to try to restart a fire. So really when i come home i want the fire fully finished. Then i set up a top down fire which starts and burn much better than any left over coal started fires.

 

[1870farmhouse]

Is your chimney in the center of your house or on an outside wall?

I'm Assuming you are going in a masonry fireplace opening or in front of one.

As you can see the 1st and second floors closely mirror each other.

Red on first floor shows where I plan to take down a portion of wall to create a doorway as currently you must walk through dining room to enter the kitchen and new doorway will allow better airflow into kitchen.

Blue on second floor are registers I’m thinking of cutting. Placed as far away from the top of stairs deep into the room to draw heat upstairs and allow olde air to gravity drop back to 1st floor to get gated up and create circulation.

Thinking of using these smart WiFi booster fan registers to help create circulation. Worst case I may have to take apart to switch the wires so the fans run in reverse. I like that I can control them with my phone off property but they come with a remote to use if close by.

 

[Todd]

Haven’t seen any reviews of the new Jotul F445 but it is slightly larger than the old F400 it replaced. Maybe ask your dealer if he can find a Jotul F45? They were discontinued but some dealers still have them available. I would take the Jotul over the Hearthstone. I like Jotul hybrid setup better.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. Of the two I would lean toward the Jotul F445 or F500. It's worth calling around within a reasonable radius to all Jotul dealers to see if they still have any F45s in stock. That will have a longer burn time and can be loaded N/S.

The other alternative is to go with an insert in the 2.5+ cu ft range. If a PE Summit would fit there, that's worth considering. A Regency 2450i or an Osburn 2000 insert are alternatives.

 

[1870farmhouse]

I guess the F45 is being rereleased very soon with many already built just awaiting EPA to stamp them.

So would you say between the Jotul 445, hearthstone shelburne, and the Jotul 45 what would you suggest top to bottom, and any other rear venting stoves you may be thinking of.

The hearthstone’s seem to puff smoke when reloading, some say Jotul quality has gone down in the last few years.
Is staying away from cats so important?

Dealer said the Jotul cats are robust but you can’t bypass them.

 

[1870farmhouse]

Haven’t seen any reviews of the new Jotul F445 but it is slightly larger than the old F400 it replaced. Maybe ask your dealer if he can find a Jotul F45? They were discontinued but some dealers still have them available. I would take the Jotul over the Hearthstone. I like Jotul hybrid setup better.dealer said the F45

 

[xshmoox]

Do you have a height restriction with the current fireplace it’s going in?

 

[1870farmhouse]

Do you have a height restriction with the current fireplace it’s going in?

Yes, that’s why I require a rear vented stove.

The chimney firebox this is going into is 32.5” high clearance so no stove with top vent will fit. The shortest setup including the tightest 90 degree 6” bend is 37” so it’s only rear vent.

 

[1870farmhouse]

Haven’t seen any reviews of the new Jotul F445 but it is slightly larger than the old F400 it replaced. Maybe ask your dealer if he can find a Jotul F45? They were discontinued but some dealers still have them available. I would take the Jotul over the Hearthstone. I like Jotul hybrid setup better.

So the dealer called me today and said recently they were notified the Jotul F45 was being brought back, that stoves have already been manufactured and awaiting roa emissions testing stamps before shipping out to dealers and if I wanted one I’d be first on the list and to expect a mid November arrival

So it’s a 445, 45 or the shelburne to pick from.

Thoughts?

 

[1870farmhouse]

Agreed. Of the two I would lean toward the Jotul F445 or F500. It's worth calling around within a reasonable radius to all Jotul dealers to see if they still have any F45s in stock. That will have a longer burn time and can be loaded N/S.

The other alternative is to go with an insert in the 2.5+ cu ft range. If a PE Summit would fit there, that's worth considering. A Regency 2450i or an Osburn 2000 insert are alternatives.

As I’ve replied to a few other members I was just notified today that Jotul is re releasing the F45 and has already produced some and awaiting epa emissions test stamps and the dealer said their Jotul rep said to expect mid November deliveries.

So it seems the F45 is in play. Sounds like this record breaking El Niño will push back winter snow and low temps for the mid-Atlantic area by averages of Lennon record winters.
Plus I have the current Lopi Sheffield that I can get by with and between now and then I can install the new double walled stainless insulated chimney liner which should improve the Sheffield a bit?

So between the 445, 500 and 45 now in play what are your thoughts good sir?

 

[Todd]

I burned the 45 for a couple seasons and it was a good stove. Front to back loading, long burn times of 10-12 hours, glass stayed very clean and a very easy to operate stove. Did the dealer give you any details on what was different between the old and new versions? I’m guessing it will be similar to their other hybrid models. For your layout I would lean toward the F45 since it’s less radiant and the cast iron jacket will give you a softer feel and more convection heat to move around your home.

 

[stovelark]

Too bad about the Shelburne, used to be a solid heater and looked good too. I'd go with the Jotul F45 if you can, no need to go with a first year production stove (F445). I do remember the Shelburne when first produced was a good heater, but HS's new catalyst burn system seems to be not quite as good, lots of folks complain of smokeback... their tru-hybrid I guess. Still like the Basil enamel green color though..

 

[begreen]

So between the 445, 500 and 45 now in play what are your thoughts good sir?

The F45. For all the advantages noted by Todd. N/S (front to back) loading means fuller maximum loads with no worries about logs rolling up against the glass. It also has a bit more capacity for coldest days. The F45 is in some ways, Jotul Maine's response to the Alderlea T5, but without the swingout trivet top.

 

[1870farmhouse]

The F45. For all the advantages noted by Todd. N/S (front to back) loading means fuller maximum loads with no worries about logs rolling up against the glass. It also has a bit more capacity for coldest days. The F45 is in some ways, Jotul Maine's response to the Alderlea T5, but without the swingout trivet top.

Green, what are your thoughts on the F500 V3?
The Delaware shop just quoted me $5100 out the door with heat shield/blower/short leg kit/cold air intake.

How does it standup to the 445, 45 and the shelburne?

 

[begreen]

The F500 is a good heater. When working well, folks like it. This is primarily a side-loading stove. Is there room on the left side to have the door open and load an 18" split? The main issues that comes up with the F500 (and perhaps the F445) are cleaning the cat and air leakage at the ash pan door causing the stove to run too hot. The top must be removed to clean the cat. It's heavy and may be inconvenient if the fit in the fireplace is close. The gasket on the ashpan door can be tricky. If not perfectly fitted, it can leak air under the fire which can be a problem. On our F400, I let the ashpan fill up completely and that improved fire control and length of burn nicely. The F445 and F500 are both primarily E/W loaders so full capacity loads are not likely due to the potential of logs rolling up against the glass.

 

[1870farmhouse]

The F500 is a good heater. When working well, folks like it. This is primarily a side-loading stove. Is there room on the left side to have the door open and load an 18" split? The main issues that comes up with the F500 (and perhaps the F445) are cleaning the cat and air leakage at the ash pan door causing the stove to run too hot. The top must be removed to clean the cat. It's heavy and may be inconvenient if the fit in the fireplace is close. The gasket on the ashpan door can be tricky. If not perfectly fitted, it can leak air under the fire which can be a problem. On our F400, I let the ashpan fill up completely and that improved fire control and length of burn nicely. The F445 and F500 are both primarily E/W loaders so full capacity loads are not likely due to the potential of logs rolling up against the glass.

How often am I looking to clean the cat if I’m burning for my primary heating? Using seasoned hardwoods

 

[Todd]

How often am I looking to clean the cat if I’m burning for my primary heating? Using seasoned hardwoods

About every cord of wood give or take it’s a good idea to brush off or vacuum the face of the cat. You should be able to do this without removing the top.

 

[stovelark]

After every cord or so? I would have thought once a season, at the end. Its positioned in where the old airflow around the baffle was right?
When I left selling Jotuls, it wasn't the "passive catalyst" model... the original version was a great heater if given seasoned wood. But i'm with BG, N/S loading definitely the better way to go if possible. Jotul makes great stoves, been doing it since 1853- thats gotta be in their favor. Stay warm all, we will hit 75-80 here in SE CT later this week.

 

[begreen]

About every cord of wood give or take it’s a good idea to brush off or vacuum the face of the cat. You should be able to do this without removing the top.

Thanks Todd, that's right. I was thinking of cat replacement.

After every cord or so? I would have thought once a season, at the end. Its positioned in where the old airflow around the baffle was right?

This is may be dependent on the wood burned and how the stove is run. If it's an ashy species of wood and the coals are stirred then frequently then it may need more frequent cleaning. Definitely be careful about what is used to start the fire. Cardboard for example, could create a lot of flakes that may block part of the cat surface. Using a safe fire starter like a SuperCedar or torch would be better.

 

[xshmoox]

Are you against putting an insert in? A blaze king insert would probably serve your space pretty well. Or will an insert not fit in the fireplace? Don’t know if I missed that part

 

[stoveliker]

How often am I looking to clean the cat if I’m burning for my primary heating? Using seasoned hardwoods

I think that apart from the fuel (see cardboard, or ashy species), and the design of the stove, a lot here depends on the draft too.
A high draft will suck up more ashes into the cat than a lower draft.
So how tall is your flue, stove top to chimney cap?