Do I need to change my mind here?

[sneefy]

Hello to all the stove experts here. I am not a stove expert, so I'm just wondering if I'm making the right choice here.

I'm building a new house and have pretty much decided on a Lopi Evergreen, but I'm open to changing my mind.

Reasons I find it appealing:

Non-cat (I just don't want to deal with one)
Nice looking stove. Clean lines. Nice size glass.
Tight clearances.
Nice size ash pan.
Cooktop.
Still EPA certified so qualifies for the tax credit.
Reputable manufacturer, made in the USA.
Local dealer (Energy Savers) that has a good reputation, has been around a long time and price is fair. They will do the full install. (I'll build the hearth)

Are there any known gotchas with this stove or any other reasons why anyone would recommend against it? Or are there any comparable alternatives that come more highly recommended? I know that stove recommendations can be a highly subjective thing, so looking for as objective feedback as possible. I found a couple thread here that mentioned cracks, but those are apparently an issue on the 'Evergreen I' not the Evergreen II', which I have not found what the difference is between those colloquial monikers, so I'd really like to know that.

This is going in a great room 30'x18' with 10' ceilings. Overall home is approx. 1800sq. ft. on a single level. Concrete slab with radiant, no basement. I plan on a simple hearth of pavers TBD.

My use case is ambiance first and supplemental heat second. I'm on a few acres, fully wooded The lot is half red pine and half white/bur oak so I expect to harvest some firewood but will have to buy some while I wait for things to season. I'm in western WI in the greater Twin Cities metro.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[Bad LP]

I like your reasons.

 

[begreen]

Reports are good so far for this stove. Sounds like a good choice.

 

[bholler]

Hello to all the stove experts here. I am not a stove expert, so I'm just wondering if I'm making the right choice here.

I'm building a new house and have pretty much decided on a Lopi Evergreen, but I'm open to changing my mind.

Reasons I find it appealing:

Non-cat (I just don't want to deal with one)
Nice looking stove. Clean lines. Nice size glass.
Tight clearances.
Nice size ash pan.
Cooktop.
Still EPA certified so qualifies for the tax credit.
Reputable manufacturer, made in the USA.
Local dealer (Energy Savers) that has a good reputation, has been around a long time and price is fair. They will do the full install. (I'll build the hearth)

Are there any known gotchas with this stove or any other reasons why anyone would recommend against it? Or are there any comparable alternatives that come more highly recommended? I know that stove recommendations can be a highly subjective thing, so looking for as objective feedback as possible. I found a couple thread here that mentioned cracks, but those are apparently an issue on the 'Evergreen I' not the Evergreen II', which I have not found what the difference is between those colloquial monikers, so I'd really like to know that.

This is going in a great room 30'x18' with 10' ceilings. Overall home is approx. 1800sq. ft. on a single level. Concrete slab with radiant, no basement. I plan on a simple hearth of pavers TBD.

My use case is ambiance first and supplemental heat second. I'm on a few acres, fully wooded The lot is half red pine and half white/bur oak so I expect to harvest some firewood but will have to buy some while I wait for things to season. I'm in western WI in the greater Twin Cities metro.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Just because is is EPA certified doesn't mean it qualifies for the tax credit. It also needs to be atleast 75% efficient. I don't believe that stove qualifies but I could be wrong

 

[sneefy]

Just because is is EPA certified doesn't mean it qualifies for the tax credit. It also needs to be atleast 75% efficient. I don't believe that stove qualifies but I could be wrong

It does. The Evergreen qualifies for the 2021 26% credit.

 

[bholler]

It does. The Evergreen qualifies for the 2021 26% credit.

Ok good just wanted to be sure

 

[sneefy]

Ok good just wanted to be sure

Yeah, for sure. The Evergreen qualifies but the Endeavor, for example, does not.

 

[stoveliker]

I think your reasoning is sound.

There might be others that would satisfy the requirements too, but if you like this one, and there is no bad rap about this one, then it seems to be the right choice.

How tall is your chimney? Could be borderline tall enough for draft (smoke roll-out).

 

[sneefy]

I think your reasoning is sound.

There might be others that would satisfy the requirements too, but if you like this one, and there is no bad rap about this one, then it seems to be the right choice.

How tall is your chimney? Could be borderline tall enough for draft (smoke roll-out).

It's all new construction. It'll be stovepipe inside and class A out and all straight up, no bends. No stone or brick involved. So I'll defer to the installer for recommended height above roof for good draft, and maybe ask to add another foot or two for good measure.

 

[stoveliker]

it needs to be 2 ft taller than anything within a 10 ft radius. (and 3 ft above the roof penetration).

The minimum you need (I believe, if I looked in the correct manual) is 15 ft. This is for the draft that you need.

If you know where the prevailing wind comes from, and you have a choice of where to put the chimney, it might be good not to be "downhill" from higher parts of the house, or a treeline. Downdrafts could result. (Though are not guaranteed.)

 

[sneefy]

it needs to be 2 ft taller than anything within a 10 ft radius. (and 3 ft above the roof penetration).

The minimum you need (I believe, if I looked in the correct manual) is 15 ft. This is for the draft that you need.

If you know where the prevailing wind comes from, and you have a choice of where to put the chimney, it might be good not to be "downhill" from higher parts of the house, or a treeline. Downdrafts could result. (Though are not guaranteed.)

Well, the spot is already chosen. There are trees all around, taller than the house. Maybe some extra chimney height would be a good idea.

 

[stoveliker]

Well, the spot is already chosen. There are trees all around, taller than the house. Maybe some extra chimney height would be a good idea.

I'd start with 15' (if straight up, no elbows), with the 10-3-2 rule. You can always (and easily) add sections later.
Save some money and add later if needed.

 

[kborndale]

If you plan to use this stove next year you best get your wood now. If you don't you will be very disappointed with your stoves performance.

 

[ericm979]

I went with a non cat stove three years ago for the same reason. But what I didn't know until reading it here a few weeks ago is that the cat EPA stoves can be turned down lower than non cat. In order to burn clean, the non cat stoves need to flow enough air. Apparently the cat stoves don't need as much air to keep the cat hot enough to burn clean. (I'm sure if I'm wrong about this, someone will correct me).

My stove (a Flame Monaco ZC) advertises a 9 hour burn time. I don't know how that's calculated but even with dense hardwood I don't get more than about 5-6 hours if I want coals that can light another reload. As a result, when it's cold and I'm heating with the stove, I need to get up in the middle of the night to reload.

I don't know for sure that a cat stove would have a longer burn time with enough coals for a reload at the end, but if I could get that, I'd trade replacing the cat periodically for full night's sleep.

 

[begreen]

There are some cat models out by RSF and Astria, but changing out a ZC is not a trivial task nor is it inexpensive. I can't say that you would get a huge increase in burn time, but it's worth asking if there is a specific model in mind.

 

[ericm979]

There are some cat models out by RSF and Astria, but changing out a ZC is not a trivial task nor is it inexpensive. I can't say that you would get a huge increase in burn time, but it's worth asking if there is a specific model in mind.

I'm not considering changing my ZC. Too much work to do that. And yes there's not a huge selection of ZCs with cats, and I really needed a ZC for this space. I was offering my experience and information for the OP's consideration.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, if you have to get up in the middle of the night now, a cat stove could still be "burning" the next morning.
But if your 2.5 cu ft fireplace needs to run as high as it does to provide sufficient heat, a cat stove of a similar size would arguably be "done" in the same time - why? Because that's the heat you need.

UNLESS, you are now "overheating" your home during the night (i.e. the minimum burn rate of your current ZC is higher than what you actually need).

People often stare to the long burn times of cat stoves - but very long burn times with a same size firebox (i.e. same fuel input, i.e. same BTU input) will result in a low BTU output. Can't generate BTUs from nothing after all.

Now, for shoulder season, a low output may be useful (and the benefit of a long burn time at that output (only) nice). On the other hand, if it is truly shoulder season, it's not that cold outside, and the heat loss of your home should not be so big, so a shorter fire heating up the place followed by a way slower cooldown might still result in a decent temperature in the morning.

Bottomline: long burn times may not be at the heat output you need.
(And if so, further insulating/air sealing your home might be much more beneficial to you.)

 

[sneefy]

Squeezing out the longest burn time is not a high priority because it won't be a primary source of heat. When I go to bed, I'll turn it down low and get what I get. I wouldn't feed it again until maybe the next evening most days.

 

[Bad LP]

If you plan to use this stove next year you best get your wood now. If you don't you will be very disappointed with your stoves performance.

Funny you mention this. Saw my wood guy yesterday who told me he’s only got 1/2 what he needs for his regular customers. Not sure about when more is coming. This is northern Maine where we grow and cut trees!!

 

[snobuilder]

Yes, if you have to get up in the middle of the night now, a cat stove could still be "burning" the next morning.
But if your 2.5 cu ft fireplace needs to run as high as it does to provide sufficient heat, a cat stove of a similar size would arguably be "done" in the same time - why? Because that's the heat you need.

UNLESS, you are now "overheating" your home during the night (i.e. the minimum burn rate of your current ZC is higher than what you actually need).

People often stare to the long burn times of cat stoves - but very long burn times with a same size firebox (i.e. same fuel input, i.e. same BTU input) will result in a low BTU output. Can't generate BTUs from nothing after all.

Now, for shoulder season, a low output may be useful (and the benefit of a long burn time at that output (only) nice). On the other hand, if it is truly shoulder season, it's not that cold outside, and the heat loss of your home should not be so big, so a shorter fire heating up the place followed by a way slower cooldown might still result in a decent temperature in the morning.

Bottomline: long burn times may not be at the heat output you need.
(And if so, further insulating/air sealing your home might be much more beneficial to you.)

Thanks for clearing this up for me personally. I hesitated asking what good a 30 hour burn time is if your home needs more BTUs to stay comfortable for fear of the usual attacks. Perhaps some homes are small enough or insulated to the point where squeezing out a prolonged burn time is a usable heating process. My updated (non cat) stove now burns cleaner and gives me about 7 hours time while my entire home stays in the 67 to 72 degree zone.

 

[stoveliker]

Thanks for clearing this up for me personally. I hesitated asking what good a 30 hour burn time is if your home needs more BTUs to stay comfortable for fear of the usual attacks. Perhaps some homes are small enough or insulated to the point where squeezing out a prolonged burn time is a usable heating process. My updated (non cat) stove now burns cleaner and gives me about 7 hours time while my entire home stays in the 67 to 72 degree zone.

"at 67-72 for 7 hrs" at what outside temp?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for clearing this up for me personally. I hesitated asking what good a 30 hour burn time is if your home needs more BTUs to stay comfortable for fear of the usual attacks. Perhaps some homes are small enough or insulated to the point where squeezing out a prolonged burn time is a usable heating process. My updated (non cat) stove now burns cleaner and gives me about 7 hours time while my entire home stays in the 67 to 72 degree zone.

Yeah the stove I am using can get 30 hours. But I will never use that. I run for 24 hrs when it's 45 to 50 out. Above that I really don't need heat.

 

[snobuilder]

"at 67-72 for 7 hrs" at what outside temp?

Currently 16F here. I was lazy this AM and just added some wood an hour ago after 9 hours. It had enough coals to restart itself. The blower has been off since 4AM The house dropped to 65 from 69 at 9:30 last night.
Obviously I have to run hotter and fill more often at 0 degrees or below.
And my wood supply varies as well. Currently I am getting rid of some 2 YO Siberian elm from some tree trimming in 3/2020.
It burns OK but fast and leaves a lot of fine ash, which is good in a way as it keeps the coals going for a long period.

 

[begreen]

That was a decent score. Sounds like you have the stove dialed in well.

 

[tjohnson]

Hi Everyone-

Just wanted to share that this forum has been extremely helpful in my search for a new stove and i really appreciate everyone's contributions.

I'm also feeling grateful to find this particular thread for a couple reasons:

1) I agree with @sneefy logic and also find it kind of humorous that i took as much time as i did to research when this Lopi Evergreen stove is arguably a unicorn in that it is non-cat and meets the tax-credit criteria - and also is available without a unknown wait period

2) I happen to also live in the Twin Cities and went right over to Energy Savers and have them lined up for chimney installation as well (which really makes the tax-credit situation a no-brainer since it includes both the stove+installation)

I will do my best to pump up the Lopi Evergreen in this community to help others (assuming i have the great experience i'm expecting to)!

thx again,
Tyler