Do you practice Coppicing

[7acres]

Hello all,
I live on a hickory and oak woodlot and would like to maintain the mix of hardwood that I have. From my research into coppicing it seems very simple to do. I've already dropped all the accessible standing dead. So now I need to cut down live wood now. Any advice from folks who have experience coppicing?

 

[Walt_85]

One of my part time jobs is doing odd jobs for an older couple that have a lot of timber land around here. When I first started working with him he wanted to go to some of the different properties and "drop the trash and smalls to give the big boys room to grow". At that time I had no idea how to pick which trees to keep and which to drop, and I told him as much. So, he walked in his house and came back out with an old copy of some sort of forestry management hand book. He wouldn't let hold on to it but he flipped right to a diagram that he said was all I needed to know. Basically, it said first get rid of the species you don't want to reproduce. Then go through and flag the best specimens of the trees you do want to reproduce. Then you mark all the trees within a radius of those specimen trees to be taken down.

That's what I remember anyway and its how I proceeded with his property and he seemed pleased with how it turned out (the only way to judge his pleasure is to measure his displeasure). Since you're not trying to manage your lot for timber value, you could probably get away with a tighter radius between trees, but the essentials are the same. Get rid of the trees you know you don't want, then leave a good population that is representative all the stages of growth, and make sure they have enough room to grow.

My 2 cents anyway, hope it helped.

 

[billb3]

a red oak tree we cut down about 20 years ago is only at about 6 inches DBH
the wild cherry we cut here we really don't want regenerating so the regrowth gets cut back off so dunno how much time it would take to have more firewood.

Both tend to grow a dozen+/- stems so there will be a bit of work with those two to force all the growth into just one if you want firewood again in your lifetime except for maybe rocket stove sticks.

 

[Wood Duck]

It seems like Black Locust and Osage Orange would be good candidates for coppicing. I have seen people cut down Osage Orange hedges and let them regrow, which is sort of like coppicing. In general coppicing isn't common in the US. In my experience, most of our hardwoods grow about as fast from seedlings as from stump regrowth, so coppicing doesn't seem very advantageous.

 

[HackBerry]

This would be a great benefit for your grandkids. My grandpa and my dad took out a 500 yard row of Osage Orange to make fence posts around 50 years ago. The fence posts are still in the pasture and the Osage coppices are abundant. The trees clearly grew back from water sprouts off the stumps. They made no effort to prune the new growth so I'm left with gnarly multiple stem hedge. With some selective pruning they would be of a much higher quality for sure.

 

[7acres]

This would be a great benefit for your grandkids. My grandpa and my dad took out a 500 yard row of Osage Orange to make fence posts around 50 years ago. The fence posts are still in the pasture and the Osage coppices are abundant. The trees clearly grew back from water sprouts off the stumps. They made no effort to prune the new growth so I'm left with gnarly multiple stem hedge. With some selective pruning they would be of a much higher quality for sure.

Yes, I've got the next generation or the next landowner in mind. I'm blessed with a lot of typical hickory and shagbark hickory. I want to preserve and promote the hickory population primarily.

Walt_85 had some good advice. I want to improve my wood lot as I harvest from it.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I have all maple, locust and ash on my property. I am simply taking out all of the smaller trees (<3-5" diameter). This will still preserve the really nice 'canopy' thing I have going on and allow much more space for dirt bikes and atv riding.

 

[7acres]

I have all maple, locust and ash on my property. I am simply taking out all of the smaller trees (<3-5" diameter). This will still preserve the really nice 'canopy' thing I have going on and allow much more space for dirt bikes and atv riding.

I need to do this! I just made friends with a new neighbor. He's got a front end loader with bush hog attachment he's offered to let me use. I'm debating whether I use that or pull up everything by hand so I get the roots too. How did you do your clearing?

 

[Wood Duck]

Rather than 'coppicing' which is cutting trees and encouraging regrowth from the stumps, then eventually recutting, I'd focus on good woodland management. With a hickory and oak you should get ample new seedlings as long as you don't have too many deer, and there is a reasonable amount of sunlight reaching the forest floor. Save good trees, remove crowded or unwanted trees, and encourage trees of mixed ages.

I'd focus on the trees you want to save/encourage, and remove other trees to give the selected trees sunlight. I pick straight, healthy well-spaced trees with a good mix of all the species present. You might want mostly oak and hickory but I'd also save a few trees of other species. A mixed stand of trees is healthier and less prone to insect or disease problems.

So pick trees you would like to keep, and cut around them to give each one at least some open access to sunlight and space to grow. I'd mark the trees you want, which helps envision which trees to remove. The difficulty is that in a normal woodland you can't just cut any tree you want and expect it to fall cleanly to the ground - there are too many other trees around. So the trees you cut have to be selected in part to benefit the trees you want to save, and in part because it is feasible to fell them. This will probably mean in some places you'll create small clearings by felling several trees into the same open space. This is useful because you should get a stand of seedlings in a small opening, which will be part of the next generation of trees.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I need to do this! I just made friends with a new neighbor. He's got a front end loader with bush hog attachment he's offered to let me use. I'm debating whether I use that or pull up everything by hand so I get the roots too. How did you do your clearing?

That is perfect. I would love to have access to some heavy equipment.
I take them down with a chainsaw. Buck anything worth burning inside, put the rest into a pile to burn in the spring.

 

[Wood Duck]

If you want to ride dirt bikes, then removing small stuff will help of course, but smaller trees don't inhibit the growth of taller trees. If a tree has some access to sunshine and a little space to expand at its crown, it should grow well. On the other hand, too many shrubs, particularly invasive stuff like honeysuckles, autumn olive, buckthorn, or Japanese barberry definitely will inhibit the growth of seedlings ad regeneration of the trees you cut.

 

[lindnova]

I have too much buckthorn and honeysuckle. The oaks are dying off and hackberry, box elder, cherry and Siberian elm are taking over. I have the Siberian elms under control now, but am fighting a loosing battle with buckthorn. My poor woods is in tough shape. It used to be pastured and was much more open when I was a kid. Now there are only a few spots left open and all the grass hillsides are brush. I have ample firewood and am working small areas at a time to try and get more young oaks going. Have some CRP fields with trees also, but the walnuts have taken over the oaks on them. I guess my son will have some retirement lumber money.

A lot of the old bur oaks have 2 or more trunks and likely were cut over 100 years ago and resprouted. They almost always are hollow. I don't like coppiced resprout trees. Except for the one record setting monster we have.

 

[7acres]

I have too much buckthorn and honeysuckle. The oaks are dying off and hackberry, box elder, cherry and Siberian elm are taking over. I have the Siberian elms under control now, but am fighting a loosing battle with buckthorn. My poor woods is in tough shape. It used to be pastured and was much more open when I was a kid. Now there are only a few spots left open and all the grass hillsides are brush. I have ample firewood and am working small areas at a time to try and get more young oaks going. Have some CRP fields with trees also, but the walnuts have taken over the oaks on them. I guess my son will have some retirement lumber money.

A lot of the old bur oaks have 2 or more trunks and likely were cut over 100 years ago and resprouted. They almost always are hollow. I don't like coppiced resprout trees. Except for the one record setting monster we have.

Man, that buckthorn is nasty stuff. How big is your coppiced monster?

 

[lindnova]

The bottom of the trunk is about 13 ft diameter with many trunks growing up from it. I don't have a picture with a person next to it, but those are 2x4's from my old tree stand ladder for reference. Experts figure it was cut down in the 1870's and we have resultant regrowth (total estimated age over 600 years). It is pretty hollow in all the branches, but survived by being sheltered from the wind. The ground around it washed out about 4 feet and the roots are exposed. It was in an area with cow paths and lots of erosion for years.

 

[Applesister]

The theory behind coppicing is that the new growth has the advantage of already established roots. And this promotes faster regrowth than starting from seedlings.
Some species are better candidates than others for this practice, which is more popular in Europe.
Supposedly you have regrowth quicker but all the trees I have found that have regrown this way grow at an angle. It creates tension wood as I call it. I know pruning helps prevent that.
I think its better to save "seed trees"
The middle aged trees that are prolific seed producers.
And get rid of the deer. And squirrels and turkeys.

 

[phishman]

here's some good info on coppicing that someone added to an old thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/what-to-do-with-a-big-ash.88038/page-2#post-1141827

according to this, oak doesn't respond well to coppicing, which is probably why that old coppiced oak is hollow.

on "exotic invasives", autumn olive is actually a nitrogen fixer and deer resistant, so if you have some near a young tree that you would like to nurse, you can coppice the olive and the root dieback will release nitrogen into the soil. you can take the cuttings and build what's called hugelkulture.

http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/

what i'm struggling with right now is finding a balance between the invasives and the other invasive, the deer. the only hardwood seedlings i'm finding are the ones that are hidden underneath the roses & barberries, where the deer can't eat them. the only species that is surviving otherwise are the beeches, which the deer won't eat unless desperate.

would love to start coppicing, but wary of hacking down a young healthy tree just to see the shoots get eaten. may do it in small patches and fence around it.

any good ideas to deter the deer away from saplings? obviously hunting, but around here, even the best hunters just scratch the surface of the problem.

 

[David.Ervin]

I don't practice coppicing, but I did it accidentally once. We had a nearly dead ash (EAB) tree in the front yard that I cut down. It re-sprouted big time around the stump, and I cut off all but the strongest stem. In two years, it's grown about eight feet, so I guess there is something to that advantage of an already established root system.

 

[Applesister]

American Chestnut Foundation has a link to a company that sells plastic tree cages. They prevent deer browsing and promote straight growth. I can try to look them up.
Also my dad used a technique of hanging bars of soap, Cashmere Bouquet, keep them in the wrapper and hang them in the tree, using plastic webbing. Perfume and soap is supposedly repugnant to deer.
You can try googling "plastic tree cages"

 

[BIGDADDY]

I think Wood Duck has given good advice.
I don't know how big your wood lot is but if you just cut the less desirable trees and by that I mean diseased or crocked trees or even types you don't want growing. Leave larger straight trees to grow even larger.
We sold some oak and walnut trees to a timber company this year and they left the tops of all the trees and even some good sized logs. I cut about 10 cords of oak last month and there is a lot left to cut.
So like Wood Duck said just practice basic woodland management.

 

[phishman]

sister, forgot about the ol' soap on a rope trick! gonna try that, thanks.

couldn't find any cages on the ACF site. did find these:

http://www.amazon.com/A-M-Leonard-B..._sbs_lg_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0ZFQM5HH4F79FZFAVKV9

pretty expensive for what you're getting. everyone around here is down on the solid tree tubes. they say they tried them and they didn't work. we got a bunch lying around in the woods so i'm going to drill holes into them and do an experiment anyhow.

speaking of chestnuts, have you tried growing any? have been speaking with the local chapter of the ACF on their efforts around this area and if any varieties have been successful.

 

[Applesister]

I went to look for the link I saved but unfortunately my cell phone is not keeping all my bookmarked links. I just discovered this. I switched phones and tried to save all my old data but bookmarks apparently dont transfer over.
AM Leonard is a great company but they arent shy with their pricing. Those aren't the cages linked to ACF. The ones I saw there were green.
You can try landscape fencing(maybe its windbreak). I think its orange and sells at home depot. We use the white wrap kind in combination with wire cages we cut from rolls. Has 1/2" square holes. Cheap...but high on the labor end.
My dad learned the "soap on a rope" trick from an apple growers seminar.
The white wrap plastic sleeving looks like a candy cane spiral wrap and has small holes in it.
They are protection from small rodents and rabbits, not so much deer.

 

[Applesister]

Chestnuts, we transplanted chestnut trees from our woodlot to an open field next to the horsebarn. From a fact sheet on comparing Chinese chestnuts to American Chestnut we discovered that out trees were indeed Chinese chestnuts.
I consulted a forester about the feasibility of this and was told that its possible the trees were nursery planted as an attempt to naturalize them at some point in the past. Some previous landowner might have been involved with conservation efforts.
American Chestnut Foundation has greatly detailed factsheets on comparing the two similar species and I feel sadly confident about my conclusion.
My trees are producing seeds and reproducing seedlings in abundance.
I know they cross American to Chinese and then back again to create blight resistance. I dont know how successful it is though. Results span decades.
I keep in touch with whats going on but I am not a member.
I guess I can feel lucky I have a small involvement. And also that the trees survived the transplanting from the woods.