Dog garn it!

[rvtgr8]

Okay, I have now put another couple of weeks of research into my mental hopper and have come back around to trying to locate information on how to purchase a Garn. Maybe it was the swell movie from the Bob Villia Show, or perhaps the photographic odyssey about the amazing work at that pristine monastery posted by Father John that flipped me like a cheap Denver Omelet. More likely it is that I secretly fantasize that if I put one in my garage it would be like owning my very own submarine. I can't be sure, but it does not matter. I want one of these beauties.
I have filled out their contact forms and sent them in. They have not responded. Is there a someone who can help me figure out how to get in touch with them? Right now, it is 9 degrees outside with a twenty m.p.h. wind out of the north. In my world, that is called inspiration. Suggestions?

 

[sparke]

The Garn is impressive. I like the built in water storage. When I contacted them earlier this year, I was told there is a wait to get one. I filled out the contact form on Sunday and got a contact number from Garn on Monday...

 

[wsurfer49]

It took them at least 10 days or more to get back to me. I hope that is all the waiting you will have to do. It will be on the road for a while but that is just one of the benefits of living in the west, I guess. Rob

 

[bjleau]

I agree the Garn is way cool. I would like to keep everything in my pole barn and not have to deal with the seperate water storage etc in my place...On one hand it would be nice to get by cheaper but with and eko or tarm is seems so complicated and and then you price in storage and all the other complexity. What is my time worth + I'm not that smart to do what Nofossil, Eric and others have. Don't get me wrong I would love to have a pimped out super efficient system like some of you guys but my Wife and Kids need to be able to run it too. Which is why I think a garn would be the best solution for me in the next year or two.

The Guy that I talked to last week about the Garn was Ken Oaks 218-820-4815

It sounds like they are pretty busy with Propane and Oil prices up but Very nice guy who spent 20 minutes answering questions for me...

My next step is to go see one and how it works, as I'm a hands on type for 10K purchases.

Brian

 

[Eric Johnson]

Welcome to the Boiler Room, Brian. Stick around and let us know how it goes.

 

[leaddog]

I agree the Garn is way cool. I would like to keep everything in my pole barn and not have to deal with the seperate water storage etc in my place...On one hand it would be nice to get by cheaper but with and eko or tarm is seems so complicated and and then you price in storage and all the other complexity. What is my time worth + I'm not that smart to do what Nofossil, Eric and others have. Don't get me wrong I would love to have a pimped out super efficient system like some of you guys but my Wife and Kids need to be able to run it too. Which is why I think a garn would be the best solution for me in the next year or two.

The Guy that I talked to last week about the Garn was Ken Oaks 218-820-4815

It sounds like they are pretty busy with Propane and Oil prices up but Very nice guy who spent 20 minutes answering questions for me...

My next step is to go see one and how it works, as I'm a hands on type for 10K purchases.

Brian

I know that sometimes we make it sound like these boilers are really complicated but any of the gasification type are run different that most of us are used to. I tryed to run it like a OWB and that don't work but once I learned to start a fire, the type wood, etc it isn't complicated. I think that most of the boilers mentioned here work good and it comes down to which one fits YOUR situation and then you need to learn how to run it the best way. If I bought a coal stove I would have to learn how to run that but once I learned it would be easy. The nice thing is that there are several brands and all have there good points for different situations so every one needs to evaluate what works best for them.
leaddog

 

[verne]

I have to say , Ive been feeling the same way. I thought I had decided on a eko 40 and 1000 gal propane storage.
as I sit, read and learn I am becoming more sceptical. It seems it is quite difficult to run these boilers truley efficient.
I dont want to be the guy looking to use 4-5 cord like no fossil and end up burning 8 . I could do that with a much cheeper system . I understand everyone has a different operating system and home ,but I would like to think that if I piped it the way the dealer suggest it would run properly.You would think especially with storage that some common configuration could be established.Yes many variables with moisture etc . ,but what to truley expect? so what is the price of the small Garn?

 

[Eric Johnson]

I think it's important to understand that somebody's obsession with making an efficient boiler even more efficient is not an indication that the efficient boiler in question is not at least twice as efficient as some of the alternatives. Nofossil lives in northern Vermont and he burns 4-5 cords of wood per season. In my experience with conventional wood-fired boilers, that's ridiculous. I don't think I've ever burned less than ten, and in some years, twice that. Forget the numbers being batted around--we're talking about decimal points.

I'm not knocking the Garn, but you're dreaming if you think it's more efficient than any other good gasifier. Or, with the possible exception of the hot water storage, easier to set up and run, for that matter.

 

[leaddog]

I have to say , Ive been feeling the same way. I thought I had decided on a eko 40 and 1000 gal propane storage.
as I sit, read and learn I am becoming more sceptical. It seems it is quite difficult to run these boilers truley efficient.
I dont want to be the guy looking to use 4-5 cord like no fossil and end up burning 8 . I could do that with a much cheeper system . I understand everyone has a different operating system and home ,but I would like to think that if I piped it the way the dealer suggest it would run properly.You would think especially with storage that some common configuration could be established.Yes many variables with moisture etc . ,but what to truley expect? so what is the price of the small Garn?

I've thought this might happen when new people start visiting this site and start to read some of the threads. I for one am VERY happy with my eko80. Have I had to relearn some things----YES. I think that if the manuals were more clear it would help-then the owners have to follow what is said. I thought I knew how to start a fire and didn't do it like the manual said and I had trouble. Yes mine didn't come set up as it should have and I had trouble but it was fixed and I got good advise right away. These boilers are new and not many people know how to run them and you don't run them like other stoves. Because there is a lot of eko owners here and are discussing them alot it sounds like they are a problem. I know for a fact that owners of some of the other boilers that aren;t discussed as much here have learning issues also, That doesn't mean they are better or worse. I looked and researced The eko, tarm, woodgun, garn and some of the refractory ones and the eko was best for me for several reasons of MY situation but I think most of the other ones are JUST as good boilers.
leaddog

 

[verne]

To be honest, I do understand most of what you all are saying. I have been reading here for a few months ,daily, allmost addictavly.I am not an engineer , so some of the conversations are a little over my head. When making abig descision you want to feel confident. I do understand Lack of information is not possitive information.Im not suggesting the garn is supperior,it just seems less complicated.I want to believe , relitively,that the efficincey is accurate.I am counting on a morning and evening load at most.
Ive recieved a few pipeing diagrams from the few dealers there are and they are almost the same.When I figure out how to post them I will . Hopefully I will get a positive response.This forum has been extremly valuable to me , just feeling a little gun shy with such a range in individaul results. thanks scott

 

[leaddog]

The garn was on my short list but the price and the place that I wanted to put it didn't fit well. The other one that hasn't got much press here was the woodgun. I wish there was more info here on that one as I looked at one and was impressed. I'm sure there must be some woodgun owners out there. It had some features that I really liked but as I was reasurching the price went up past what I wanted to invest. I chose the eko as I wanted a boiler that would take wood over 30in long, price in my range, quality built and good suport. I knew that I felt storage was important and I had the materials and know how to make that happen. There was some other ones out there but they were new and I didn't want something that hadn't had the bugs out yet. The thing that I don't understand is how much more advanced the Europeans are. There is some really neat things over there and no-one here seems to notice. There is going to be some people soon that notices and they are going to make alot of money. It is hard to change the mind set of big-oil people, heating contractors, etc. I've talked to several people in the heating industy and they don't even realize what is happening over seas and think we are on the cutting edge.
leaddog

 

[pbvermont]

Amen leaddog.

 

[jklingel]

You can call me ignorant, because I am. But, I have read time and time again about how Europe is ahead of us on this and that, and I think in the case of fuel efficiency, in general, they are. They have HAD to be, w/ their price of fuel being way past ours for decades. Diesel vehicles are apparently far more common over there; look at a Viessmann boiler; look at who has been running gasifiers for decades now; apparently there is a sizable and growing infra-structure for hydrogen fuel for vehicle. Etc. I think we have much to learn. On another note, in 1952 a gent from the US tried to sell the concept of quality control and all of his statistical analysis therefor to American industry, and when it did not fly he went to Japan. They took a while, but take a look now. Honda. Toyota. etc. We will catch up, once we HAVE TO, and I think that is starting to sink in over here. My 2. j

 

[mikeyny]

Well, here's my 2 cents on the garn. I have been burning wood for ever, in many different ways. I almost considered building a garn style but changed my mind. I watched the video on line and I wasn't impressed. The man claimed to build one fire each day, to heat a big old house. After all was said and done ,2 hrs passed by and 2 and a half good size wheelbarrows of wood went into the thing. That looked like enough wood to fill my simple old tarm about a dozen times. Not that my old tarm is better, it's just a different animal altogether, but the amount of money you have to spend on the garn unit seems way too high. I am definitely all for simpler things. The old boiler I have is a simple under burn design, no blowers, just a temp activated damper and an aqua stat. I never have creosote in the chimney, it burns real clean with good wood. At 110 thousand btu it heats this 3000 ft turn of the century house all winter long, with the exception of those 10 to 15 real cold days. We are still conservative though. We keep the heat at 64 and then down to 62 over nite. We don't like it really warm. This year it looks like I will use about 6 cords of wood plus some construction debris and a hand full of pallets. The gas bill may end up to be about 250 bucks for the entire heating season. All of my wood is acquired free, except for the time and effort involved. ( I would hate to calculate that cost into everything).

Mike

 

[Eric Johnson]

What you're seeing here, for the most part, is guys who have something that works great, trying to understand how it works and make it work even better. In a way it's like bicycle riders trying to shave grams off the weight of their bikes. It's their obsession, but it doesn't have a lot of practical application for most people.

 

[jklingel]

It is good to hear all of the opinions on the Garn, as I am considering one, primarily for the fact that it is a contained unit. Spendy, yes, but by the time you buy a smaller one and add water storage, I did not see a huge price difference. I'd like to know from some independent source how much wood a person really burns over the course of a year w/ a Garn (which seems like overkill for most houses????), as compared to a smaller unit and water storage. I hope that within a few years more info like this will become available as more Garns are sold and people report their experiences. Where is Consumer Reports when you need them?

 

[leaddog]

I always have a problem when people talk about how much wood. the variables are so great that it is very hard to put apples to apples. Every house is different as to size, insulation, wind, windows, and all the other variables. then you have dhw, hottubs, pools, baseboard, radiant, snowmelt, etc. Then to really mess things up you have to consider wood species, dryness, how old (punkess),how it is measured, and I'm sure other things. I'm sure that two identacal houses setting side by side with two different families and you would get different amounts. I have people ask me all the time and I really can't give a good answer, only that I'm using less with my eko that I did with my OWB. This is the first year that I have stacked my wood. Always before I had it in wire baskets and on two 25ft trailers with slats and I just backed them up to the boiler and took it off there. It made for alot less handleing and it dried well as it was off the ground. I used my loader and just dumped it in and didn't split it. But even if I had weighed it I don't think it would tell any one what they would burn.
I think a better indicator is to see how the boilers are efficency wise, how You use it, and compare brands for the use and way you will use it. I think that all of the gasifiers will use about the same amount of wood for each use of the same type as long as you use them the way they were designed.
leaddog

 

[jklingel]

Lead: All good pts. I like the idea of dumping onto the trailer. A guy could split (if necessary to split) right there, then move the whole pile. Do you have a loader-splitter? If so, I'd be interested in the specs thereof. Thanks. j

 

[leaddog]

I have a Century 40hp 4x4 tractor with loader. I made a 3pt splitter for the back. It has two cyl on. One on the bottem is a 6x1/2in and it runs really slow but I back up to the BIG pieces and lower it down and it will split ANYTHING. Then on the top I have a 4in cyl that I split the big small ones down to small ones. It works ok with two people but not as good as I had hoped. It does save the back when I have to split those 36in ones. When I had the OWB I just split down to a size that I could ROLL into the boiler as it had a 34x34in door but now I split every thing. With the loader I could roll then into the loader and dump it into the trailer. The smaller stuff I would put into industrial wire baskets that would hold just under 1/2 rick and I could move them with my forks. The tractor really helps as I don't have to carry the wood much and since I'm getting up in years I like that. The trailer is a mobilhome frame. I put one frame on top and on the bottem I welded cross pieces with 2in gaps so air could pass. this keeps the wood off the ground, air drys, I could just back it up to the stove. It's setting out front now for sale as I'm splitting and stacking for the eko.
leaddog

 

[Eric Johnson]

I totally agree that wood consumption is a really bad basis for comparison and evaluation for all the reasons you stated. And it's kind of a personal question, to boot!

 

[jklingel]

Lead: (I am pushing this off-topic, so if you'd care to reply you can PM if you'd like.) Do you have any pics of your splitter? I can imagine that the 6" cylinder will split anything. At 2,000 psi you are cranking out 56,500 lbs of force. Why does the splitter not work like you wanted it to? I am building one soon (4" at 3000 psi --> 37,000 lbs) and would like to avoid any mistakes others have run across. Mine will be on the front of my skid steer, so I can easily stand on a trailer, pick up wood I dumped there, and split/deliver. I am thinking of using a 4-way splitting knife, too; with our small, non-narly, softer woods, I think I will be able to quarter the wood in one pass. Have you an opinion on whether to push the wood, or push the knife? Thanks for any info. john [email protected]

 

[EricV]

All good points Leaddog

Wood itself is so variable, usage, the structure, wind, lots of stuff.

The Garn was on my final 2 list. While looking at the budget I chose the Tarm because for about the same money I could put a 12 x 16 addition on the house. Half for the boiler and half for utility space, laundry folding, etc.

I work for a government environmental agency and a few of us have been bantering around how to utilize several Garns to heat our building. Just water cooler talk but very interesting.

I use a very large amount of domestic hot water partly due to a child with a disability. So my system as been very good for me.

On tuesday I got a fuel oil delivery. $3.779 from Surburban propane, Plattsburgh NY (on wed we called and said never come back, their price is exactly 50 cents higher than a guy that advertises in the paper)

This delivery was the first since mid october and we only took 32 gallons. That made me smile you can bet.

I don't have a good accounting of wood consumption but looking at my shed and looking at how much cold weather we have left I'm in real good shape. Again, smiling.

So which ever system works for you, any of the gasification units installed reasonably well will save a ton on fossil fuels.

Eric

 

[Fredman]

I had a inside wood stove and I used to burn 8 full cords a year and then went to a outside wood stove (Wood Master 440) and went to burning 10 full cords. I would like to see if anyone had a outside wood stove and then changed over to gasification boiler if there was any savings on the wood consumption. The less I have to mess with the wood the better, no splitting, cut, pile, and burn.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I'll be able to give you some idea at the end of the season, Fredman. I went from a conventional indoor boiler in my barn to a gasifier in the same spot. That should have cut my wood consumption in half, but this winter I'm heating more space (a greenhouse) and keeping the house a lot warmer, in addition to neglecting some insulation until after New Years, so I'm not burning half as much--yet. I am getting more heat from less wood with the gasifier, I can verify that.

When you think about it, the smoke that's not being produced by the EKO is staying in the system as heat, so it's kind of a nobrainer from that perspective.

 

[Fredman]

Do you have your storage tank in the barn also or is it your house?