Drolet 1800 hard to start

[app333]

Hi there - so after 30 years with an old BK smoke dragon (with no cat) just a hole to the sky and a short 8 foot, 8inch flue, I finally installed a Drolet 1800 woodstove this fall. The BK was easy to start, and could handle giant logs but not efficient, Boy is this Drolet hard to start. We are located at 6,000 feet in Montana - the flue is a straight 12' long (recommended min length by Drolet) 6 feet inside, the rest outside. I didn't want to go much higher because of the winds. I did order a moisture meter that I'm waiting on - our wood usually seasons for one year here in this arid climate. It takes some persistence for about an hour to build some decent coals and some of the fam. just don't have the patience. It seems it could be a draft problem and I've wondered where the air intake holes are in case they are blocked.
Any tips on my transition to running this newer stove would be much appreciated. I also want to know how close to the secondary burn tubes can I fill with wood.

 

[RockyMtnGriz]

Is the 12' flue you refer to the minimum after adjusting for altitude, or before?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yeah, suspect the chimney is too short and check the wood moisture level.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You can fill it to the burn tubes. If there is a ceramic board above them, don’t hit them as they can be fragile.

 

[moresnow]

Generic elevation driven pipe length adjustment formula

min required venting=12'

multiply required length (12') by .03% per 1000' in elevation (6000' in OP case) =2.16' additional pipe length recommended to offset impact of higher elevation.

I would not fear adding a minimum of two feet if not three of additional class A. If you end up with 5 feet or more above the roof penetration you will need to add roof bracing. Not a big deal.

Before doing any venting alterations, I would certainly bring in a nice selection of splits from your stash. Let those splits sit indoors for 24hrs at least. Re-split those (now) room temp splits and immediately test the moisture content on the freshly exposed inner face.

20% or less? If so, you have eliminated wet fuel. Move on to adding chimney length.

Your stove make/model has a rather proven track record. Unlikely there is a manufacturing issue. IMO.
Let us know how it goes. Best of luck.

 

[stoveliker]

Have you run a brush thru the chimney to check for any blockages that would (also) impede draft?

I second the chimney height remarks. I note that some mfg's recommend to increase the minimum needed height by 1 ft per 2000 ft of elevation. So for 6000 ft elevation, they'd say to add 3 ft, leading to a minimum recommended height here of 15 ft.

 

[brenndatomu]

You will have a steep learning curve after running that old "campfire in a steel box"...once you get things figured out you will love the new stove...but first you need to forget everything you think you know about running a wood stove.
There are some "how to run an EPA stove" threads around here somewheres...when I get a chance I'll look for a couple...

 

[EbS-P]

I suggest you try (if you aren’t already) the top down starting method. And if it’s sluggish more kindling than you would ever think was appropriate.

 

[app333]

Thanks for the replies - the old stove did not need much kindling to get it going so we were spoiled but this is a different animal. I am going to have to experiment with more kindling and less paper/cardboard to build a bigger firebase which means more splitting thankfully we are having a mild fall. I have already braced the chimney on the roof but I really want to hold back on more chimney height - from what I can see no -one else in the neighborhood has a significantly taller chimney and their fires are drawing, unless this stove is particularly finicky which is annoying and unsuspected - I picked it because it seemed like a good working class stove that could handle Canadian winters with minimum fuss - I do wonder if I should have gone with the next size up with a bigger firebox but the house is only 1600 sq ft and decided it would have driven us out of the house. I have a feeling I am going to have to muster the courage to burn it hotter than I am used to once I get the knack of lighting it to get the efficiency - even after thirty years of relying on wood for heat I'm a very cautious operator. I've watched some YouTubes and people really crank it up before closing it down for the night - more than I am used to

 

[app333]

You will have a steep learning curve after running that old "campfire in a steel box"...once you get things figured out you will love the new stove...but first you need to forget everything you think you know about running a wood stove.
There are some "how to run an EPA stove" threads around here somewheres...when I get a chance I'll look for a couple...Yes

Yes - I think number one is that I am going to need more kindling - and would appreciate any leads on the threads when you have time - I have to get a few family members trained too, lol

 

[brenndatomu]

Here is one...there are more around here too...more to come later...

Starting a fire and running an EPA stove

Questions about starting a fire and avoiding a runaway stove come up so frequently I decided to document starting our stove. This is a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 with about a 3 cu ft firebox. The stove is connected to a straight-up, 20' interior flue. The outside ambient temperature is 34ºF. The...

www.hearth.com

 

[app333]

I suggest you try (if you aren’t already) the top down starting method. And if it’s sluggish more kindling than you would ever think was appropriate.

yes - I'll never forget that scene in House of Cards when Underwood illustrates the top-down lighting method - I don't use it but have always planned on giving it a go - it's described in the manual which I have actually read! I know more kindling is going to be a factor

 

[brenndatomu]

More...
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-to-burning-an-epa-stove-seeking-drolet-escape-1800-operation-advice.190264/post-2555813

EPA stove operation

I still need to setup the Osburn 3300 stove but am curious about the operation of this stove or newer non-cat stoves in general as I am sure the operation is quite different than my 40 year old defiant. I know there are lots of variables, but once the stove is lit and up to temp, it appears from...

www.hearth.com

 

[app333]

Generic elevation driven pipe length adjustment formula

min required venting=12'

multiply required length (12') by .03% per 1000' in elevation (6000' in OP case) =2.16' additional pipe length recommended to offset impact of higher elevation.

I would not fear adding a minimum of two feet if not three of additional class A. If you end up with 5 feet or more above the roof penetration you will need to add roof bracing. Not a big deal.

Before doing any venting alterations, I would certainly bring in a nice selection of splits from your stash. Let those splits sit indoors for 24hrs at least. Re-split those (now) room temp splits and immediately test the moisture content on the freshly exposed inner face.

20% or less? If so, you have eliminated wet fuel. Move on to adding chimney length.

Your stove make/model has a rather proven track record. Unlikely there is a manufacturing issue. IMO.
Let us know how it goes. Best of luck.

right - we have a brace - I will experiment with more kindling before addressing the height

 

[app333]

Have you run a brush thru the chimney to check for any blockages that would (also) impede draft?

I second the chimney height remarks. I note that some mfg's recommend to increase the minimum needed height by 1 ft per 2000 ft of elevation. So for 6000 ft elevation, they'd say to add 3 ft, leading to a minimum recommended height here of 15 ft.

The chimney was installed 2 weeks ago - I do need to get smaller brushes for the 6-inch flue - the chimney is venting from the smoke I see emerging

You can fill it to the burn tubes. If there is a ceramic board above them, don’t hit them as they can be fragile.

Thanks - two boards were broken in delivery and replacement - I'm already on the third baffle and have only just installed the stove - not a great start to a new relationship but Drolet was great about it

 

[EbS-P]

The chimney was installed 2 weeks ago - I do need to get smaller brushes for the 6-inch flue - the chimney is venting from the smoke I see emerging

Thanks - two boards were broken in delivery and replacement - I'm already on the third baffle and have only just installed the stove - not a great start to a new relationship but Drolet was great about it

My baffle arrived in two pieces left half and right half. I didn’t bother getting a new one. The halves fit together well and I can get them and the tubes out easier since it is in two pieces. I believe you can get aftermarket C-cast baffles that might be more durable but I can’t speak directly to that.

Are you seeing any secondary combustion?

 

[GrumpyDad]

Im new to all of this but one thing I learned is I need alot more kindling in this stove than I ever would in my fireplace, if I ever want the thing to get to temperature. I also never use a top down approach. I never knew that was a thing, and would laugh when I would see people do that and then the fire would go out or take forever to catch. Thinking all along boy this person doesnt know how to start a fire. I tried top down the other day to understand the allure, and all I can think of is people are doing it because it's something different to do or easier to light? Mine took FOREVER to burn down. I finally gave up and torched it from the bottom as god intended and the stack was fully ablaze....quickly.

What I usually do is use 1" kindling, about 10 pieces (I know thats alot!). Stacked in log cabin format. I dont stack each piece perfectly in line with each other. Offset a bit. For a fireplace I use 2-3 pieces with small splits on top, doors closed - woosh. Just roll up some cardboard to put in the middle of your log cabin, leave some space at the bottom for a starter - or just a couple of paper towels will do. once the stack is ablaze, I add a couple of smaller splits, then that roar for awhile then start adding bigger pieces on once I have a good bed of coals.

Wife noticed how long it took for the stove to produce heat. It's a good hour to really crank out heat and start to feel it in the room a bit. It also takes a LONG time to stop producing heat when the fire goes out. Id say my stove top from the time that the stove finally burned every bit of coal left to a fine ash, took about 5 hours to comfortably touch. This is just something I will need to get adjusted to. We do have oil heat but no heat in this area. Heat just comes in from the other areas that have the vents. So that takes the edge off while I wait for the stove to come up to temp.

Now yours is steel, Id imagine you should realize heat output much sooner than my cast iron.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like weak draft. Can you post some pictures of the house that show the chimney location?

At 6000' there will probably need to be a height compensation of 2-3 ft. The Drolet is an easy breather, but the air is thinner. If the chimney location is in a lower pressure area of the roof, that can further compound the issue.

Are the new chimney and stove pipe all 6" now? If the chimney pipe is still 8" that will also affect the draft.

 

[RockyMtnGriz]

My rule of thumb is that if I plan to cold start one of my high efficiency woodburners, it will take an hour before I'm able to leave it completely on its own.

Prepare and insert plenty of newspaper, some junk mail (not in the cat stove), plenty of kindling/scraps plus some 2-3 inch stuff so there's some coals left (lodgepole is that way) for the preheat fire. By the time I load and burn that to coals, and I can load a regular load, let that catch, and turn it down - easy hour if not more.

The old stoves where you could see the bottom of the chimney cap from the firebox - under 10 minutes.

Maybe you haven't gotten adjusted to EPA time yet?

I'd also be keeping an eye out for a 3-4 foot section of pipe (plain stove pipe would be ok, especially if it's free) to use for a chimney height addition test.

 

[app333]

My baffle arrived in two pieces left half and right half. I didn’t bother getting a new one. The halves fit together well and I can get them and the tubes out easier since it is in two pieces. I believe you can get aftermarket C-cast baffles that might be more durable but I can’t speak directly to that.

Are you seeing any secondary combustion?

I wondered if I could use the baffle that was simply broken in two and what difference it would make - and I've also wondered about buying a more durable baffle so I will look into the C-cast baffles. Once I get the fire going I can see the secondary burn. I'm planning on practicing the top-down method next time I have to light the fire but it's warmed up here for the next week.

 

[app333]

Sounds like weak draft. Can you post some pictures of the house that show the chimney location?

At 6000' there will probably need to be a height compensation of 2-3 ft. The Drolet is an easy breather, but the air is thinner. If the chimney location is in a lower pressure area of the roof, that can further compound the issue.

Are the new chimney and stove pipe all 6" now? If the chimney pipe is still 8" that will also affect the draft.

I replaced the entire chimney and flue with 6 inch as it was over 30 years old - we just insert the 6-inch ceiling box inside the old 8-inch box so we didn't have to deal with fixing the ceiling and it worked a treat. The entire flue and chimney are 6-inch double-wall pipe. I am reserving going up another two feet until I master a new lighting method

 

[brenndatomu]

Just FYI, those broken baffle boards can be repaired, if they are not mutilated...a simple clean break can be mended with a tube of furnace cement...it works pretty darn well. The cement has to cure for a day before being fired, but other than that its a quick/easy/cheap repair.
Works great on firebricks too.

 

[app333]

Okay, team - I practiced top-down lighting this morning and it worked a treat - I followed the instructions from the Canadian video and also learned about E/W logs versus N/S and found some other EPA-style fire lighting videos and the fire is starting in less than 10 mins and is burning clean - I will have to cut my wood shorter for the N/S log lay and it will take a little more kindling than I'm used to but all your suggestions have been super helpful. I think I can ignore the chimney height unless I can't get the fire hot enough this winter but I haven't had to really load up the stove as I'm only trying to get the chill off the house - I'm going to look for one of those nifty fire tools that looks like a mini rake without prongs for bringing the coals forward - the stove does like to have the air open for longer than I'm used to but that that may be related to my minimum chimney height - thanks, everyone I'm feeling much more secure about winter - this is my only heat source other than a backup heater near the north wall water pipes for windy negative twenty nights.

It's not a cat stove - nevertheless, how vigilant are you about not burning colored paper glued to cardboard?

 

[app333]

Just FYI, those broken baffle boards can be repaired, if they are not mutilated...a simple clean break can be mended with a tube of furnace cement...it works pretty darn well. The cement has to cure for a day before being fired, but other than that its a quick/easy/cheap repair.
Works great on firebricks too.

Great to know - threw out the mutilated one but kept the other one in case I figure out a way to repair it - I'll be doing this!

 

[brenndatomu]

It's not a cat stove - nevertheless, how vigilant are you about not burning colored paper glued to cardboard?

I don't burn very much of it, but I won't hesitate to use a little to start the fire...the greasy spots on pizza boxes work well...I won't burn the whole box at once though...cardboard "floaties" can go up the chimney and light off a chimney fire, if you have creosote...which I am far enough ahead on my firewood supply that I don't have to worry about that much at all...