Dropped Saw

[Vikestand]

I'll get better details when I take a closer look at it, BUT, my father in law dropped his new Stihl saw about 10' out of a tree after it got pinched(lol). Now it won't start. He took it to Bucheits to have it looked at(first mistake) and they told him the cylinder/piston was scored. I have a hard time believing this.

1.It wasn't running when he dropped(even it it was I have my doubts)
2. less than 5 hours on the saw.
3. Compression seems fine.

I'll get the model number this evening, as it's sitting in the barn right now. First thing I'll check and see is if it has fire. My guess is that a ground wire is pinched off or came loose. After that I'll pull the muffler off and take a quick peak. If it's scratched it will show in multiple places. I believe these are chrome lined?
Any other tips let me know.

 

[claydogg84]

I doubt the shop would tell you it was scored unless they took off the muffler - this is only a 5 minute process. It may not be starting for other reasons like you stated, but it sounds like the main problem now is the piston/head.

 

[Jon1270]

my father in law dropped his new Stihl saw about 10' out of a tree after it got pinched(lol). Now it won't start.

What's not clear is whether it started and ran immediately after being dropped. If the fall cracked something and caused an air leak, it might run for a little while but quickly damage itself.

3. Compression seems fine.

When the test for compression is simply pulling the rope and judging by feel, I've seen a number of people badly misjudge. One local tree climber periodically asks me to look at his busted equipment. Three times in the last year he has brought me saws that he thought felt like they had good compression, but which actually had very low compression.

 

[xman23]

There must be more to the story. Since it was a new saw, did you have the proper oil gas mixture in it. Pinched or seized? Then it fell out of the tree, and never ran again? And now they say it's a scored piston.

 

[Vikestand]

He had the proper mixture. He was trimming a limb higher up out of the tree. Instead of just taking the bar off he tried tying it off. Lol misjudged the height. When it all came in glued the saw fell to the ground.

I didn't find out any of this until after he went to Bucheits and bought a new saw. I went with the wife over to their place and saw the saw sitting on his work bench. Proceeded to tell me that the guy at Bucheits said it was a scored piston/cylinder.

It never ran after falling out of the tree. I took it a buddy of mine who runs a small gas engine shop. Compression is good. That is all I had him check.

Ill check fire tonight(hard to buy time with a two year old and wife who is a teacher) along with pulling the muffler off.

This saw does not have any cosmetic injuries. I know this can break internal. I am just skeptical that they did. I'm willing to bet its a ground/electrical issue.

 

[claydogg84]

He had the proper mixture. He was trimming a limb higher up out of the tree. Instead of just taking the bar off he tried tying it off. Lol misjudged the height. When it all came in glued the saw fell to the ground.

I didn't find out any of this until after he went to Bucheits and bought a new saw. I went with the wife over to their place and saw the saw sitting on his work bench. Proceeded to tell me that the guy at Bucheits said it was a scored piston/cylinder.

It never ran after falling out of the tree. I took it a buddy of mine who runs a small gas engine shop. Compression is good. That is all I had him check.

Ill check fire tonight(hard to buy time with a two year old and wife who is a teacher) along with pulling the muffler off.

This saw does not have any cosmetic injuries. I know this can break internal. I am just skeptical that they did. I'm willing to bet its a ground/electrical issue.

Is there any reason for you to doubt this dealer? Have they done you wrong in the past? Before you try to start it again, I suggest you at least pull the muffler.

 

[Vikestand]

Yes and yes. I don't know if you have them in New York but they are the Walmart version of tractor supply. It would be the equivalent of me taking my car to autozone to get it fixed.

Plus I never have trusted taking things to the same dealer you bought them from.

 

[maple1]

Is there any reason for you to doubt this dealer? Have they done you wrong in the past? Before you try to start it again, I suggest you at least pull the muffler.

A scored top end, scored bad enough that it won't start, from a fall from a tree, seems like something that I would doubt.

Be interesting to see how this one turns out.

 

[Vikestand]

Well pulled the muffler off. You can tell the piston and rings are worn on one side not the other. The model is a MS180C. I further talked to my FIL and he said ever since owning this saw he has had trouble with starting it. He actually had them replace two ropes already in the past. I know he is rough on stuff, but not that rough. I called my buddy who knows way more than I. He said he had to replace rings cyclinder and piston on the same model after 2 years of use.

It's starting to look like I have inherited another saw.

 

[maple1]

First post says it's a new saw?

Then less than 5 hours. Piston & rings should not have any wear unless it was straight gassed.

Also, looking thru the muffler port, you can only see a little bit of the piston & rings - so not sure what you mean by one side vs. the other. Pics are always nice to look at. Compression test should help tell the tale on the top end.

 

[Vikestand]

Well anything that's used for limb trimming and bought new 2 years ago is new to me. It has less than 5 hours on it.

To the left of the flash point.

 

[maple1]

Hmm, that's odd looking. Can't see the best but looks like scratches in one spot? Looks like the cylinder has to come off, but I would still likely check the comp first just to see what it is. Definitely not something that should happen with 5 hours of normal use.

 

[claydogg84]

First post says it's a new saw?

Then less than 5 hours. Piston & rings should not have any wear unless it was straight gassed.

Also, looking thru the muffler port, you can only see a little bit of the piston & rings - so not sure what you mean by one side vs. the other. Pics are always nice to look at. Compression test should help tell the tale on the top end.

There's no reason for a compression test with visible scoring on the piston. Either he was running the saw with the wrong mix, or there is an air leak somewhere.

 

[dougand3]

Ouch! Those gouges in piston and ring will cause some serious hard starting. Agree that next step is pulling engine out and disassemble. You need at least a piston and ring, maybe jug, too. AL transfer can be removed form jug walls and work fine if no deep gouges. And if air leak, gotta find that or it will happen again.

 

[maple1]

I would have expected an air leak or wrong mix would have caused more widespread scoring or scuffing. That looks confined to one spot, like from a rough port edge or something.

The suspense builds as we wait for naked piston & cylinder pics.

 

[Vikestand]

I brought it here to work today. Gonna check for fire in a bit.

Might even run the cylinder under the CMM to see what tolerance they're kept to lol.

Any tips on replacing the rope? Clamping the turn in place where the rope is at its end, then feed new rope in? I hate screwing with those springs....

 

[Jon1270]

The rope is the least of your worries, and chances are the ignition system is fine. Whatever the cause was, that motor needs to be rebuilt. If it's not worth the trouble to do that, then don't waste time on the other stuff.

 

[DougA]

If it's not worth the trouble to do that, then don't waste time on the other stuff.

Sometimes you can rebuild a chainsaw and it still does not run well. I'm wondering if this saw is worth it too.

 

[Vikestand]

The rope is the least of your worries, and chances are the ignition system is fine. Whatever the cause was, that motor needs to be rebuilt. If it's not worth the trouble to do that, then don't waste time on the other stuff.

I like to start easy and go from there. Maybe I wanted to try and start it before tearing the sob apart? Yes I know the cylinder is scarred etc. I've seen worse. It's moving free. Starting it eliminates a lot of questions.Check for spark. I did this just now, it has spark.

I don't how you work I tend to do the easy chit first to eliminate unknowns.

Is it worth it to me to buy a kit and fix? I would say so judging by the price of new saws and aftermarket kits.


So replacing the damn rope is minor. I don't tend to start the saw with an impact every time.

 

[Vikestand]

Sometimes you can rebuild a chainsaw and it still does not run well. I'm wondering if this saw is worth it too.

That applies for all aspects of life.

 

[dougand3]

You know piston and ring are scored but don't know if the cylinder is scored (can only see small area of the high intake wall). If you think it's worth re-building, an AM piston kit is $6 and an AM whole engine is $30 on feebay. Dealer parts/labor charge would be more than saw is worth.

 

[claydogg84]

I like to start easy and go from there. Maybe I wanted to try and start it before tearing the sob apart? Yes I know the cylinder is scarred etc. I've seen worse. It's moving free. Starting it eliminates a lot of questions.Check for spark. I did this just now, it has spark.

I don't how you work I tend to do the easy chit first to eliminate unknowns.

Is it worth it to me to buy a kit and fix? I would say so judging by the price of new saws and aftermarket kits.


So replacing the damn rope is minor. I don't tend to start the saw with an impact every time.

I tend to work smart, as in not doing things for no reason. Fixing things like the pull cord at this point is useless, as the main problem may result in you throwing away the saw. Take off the head and see what you're dealing with.

 

[DougA]

If it's like the other Stihl saws I own, the head pulls off in 5 min. with 4 bolts. Just gotta be VERY careful making sure the rings are set correctly and slide in cleanly when you put the head back on.
You can buy the whole starter cord and housing on fleabay for very cheap. Just have to wait for delivery from China. If you are buying Stihl parts from a dealer for $$$$, I would rather sell the saw 'as is' on CL and move on. Even then, a local dealer I know charges $$$$$, then uses cheap Chinese parts and pockets the difference. Man, that is LOWWW.

 

[Jon1270]

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[Vikestand]

I saw that Jon, thanks. I'll get the cord on tomorrow and see if its getting fuel and if I can get it started.