Need a splitter, way in over my head with monster oak logs

[sirlight]

First post after lurking for many years.

I heat primarily with wood, but in the past have cut mostly small fir rounds and split with an axe. I made the mistake (or had the good fortune) of making friends with a local arborist. I told him I would take all the logs he wants to drop off since I could use the firewood. Now I have a pile of oak logs next to my workshop with no way to split them. These things are monsters. The biggest one is 3 feet across and most are in the 18 to 24 inch range. Hammering in wedges is hopeless. It has been difficult even moving them or bucking into smaller chunks with my 20" chainsaw. The log splitter I borrowed from a friend hardly makes a dent in the smaller logs. Not sure, but I would suspect his splitter was 18 to 20 ton.

My plan at the moment is to head over to the local farm store and get one of their Black Diamond 37 ton splitters and get to work on these logs. It appears I will have a pretty continuous supply of logs from this arborist, so buying a splitter makes sense. It is a great thing to have so much free firewood, but I need to ramp up my equipment to deal with it.

Am I on the right track, or can someone suggest a better plan?

 

[GadDummit]

That pile has me feeling kinda excited.
Yes you're on the right path. I prefer home made splitters so you can up the tonnage and save a lot of money but in this kind of pinch, if it were affordable, I'd get one from Tractor Supply and call it a day.

Also, (you probably know this) let it dry a season and it'll be easier to split.

 

[sirlight]

Also, (you probably know this) let it dry a season and it'll be easier to split.

Yes it would be better to let this wood dry for a year before splitting, but it is just so big and difficult to move or store until split and stacked. The pile in the pictures I posted was just the last 3 deliveries. There were two more before that (species unknown), and those logs are already taking up too much space in the barn.

 

[GadDummit]

Yes it would be better to let this wood dry for a year before splitting, but it is just so big and difficult to move or store until split and stacked. The pile in the pictures I posted was just the last 3 deliveries. There were two more before that (species unknown), and those logs are already taking up too much space in the barn.

haha, yep. sounds like you have the perfect reason to go get a new toy! It's a good problem to have!

 

[brenndatomu]

The log splitter I borrowed from a friend hardly makes a dent in the smaller logs. Not sure, but I would suspect his splitter was 18 to 20 ton.

Something is very wrong with his splitter then...20 ton should split anything you throw at it...heck, many people here split with little 5 ton electric splitters and find them to be adequate.
37 ton is fine if that's what you want, but you are paying more for something that is slower...unless you spend a whole lot more and get a fast 37 ton (full blown commercial splitter)
Just FYI...

 

[sirlight]

Something is very wrong with his splitter then...20 ton should split anything you throw at it.

That may be the case. I don't know anything about log splitters and his may not be working correctly. Did a little research and what I was reading said 40 tons+ for 24 inch green oak.

The splitters (black diamond) that I am looking at are $1650 for a 37 ton and $1050 for a 27 ton. Specs say the 37 and 27 ton has a cycle time is 11.5. seconds. I am not in the "bigger is always better" crowd. I want a spitter that will get the job done and be as affordable as possible. Keep in mind that I usually cut my firewood at 14 to 16 inches length and these are huge 24"+ rounds of green oak.

 

[brenndatomu]

Did a little research and what I was reading said 40 tons+ for 24 inch green oak.

Let me guess, that a chart made up by a splitter manufacturer? The diameter of the log doesn't mean anything (another than lifting it!) if anything, larger rounds split easier. And Oak as a species is generally known as an easy splitting wood...many people that split by hand love oak because you can take one whack at a huge round and it splits open. (not always, there are always exceptions)
I have an elcheapo 23 ton Champion and I've never found a log it wouldn't split...and I'm relatively sure its not even set up to max pressure. Oh, and I'm no wood snob, I'll take almost anything, so I end up with some pretty gnarly (read; hard to split) wood.
And the shorter the round the easier they are to split too...I cut to 20", so your 14-16" rounds would be playtime for my splitter.
Keep in mind too, higher tonnage takes more horsepower to run...which means more fuel consumption.

 

[sirlight]

Let me guess, that a chart made up by a splitter manufacturer? The diameter of the log doesn't mean anything (another than lifting it!) if anything, larger rounds split easier. And Oak as a species is generally known as an easy splitting wood...many people that split by hand love oak because you can take one whack at a huge round and it splits open. (not always, there are always exceptions)
I have an elcheapo 23 ton Champion and I've never found a log it wouldn't split...and I'm relatively sure its not even set up to max pressure. Oh, and I'm no wood snob, I'll take almost anything, so I end up with some pretty gnarly (read; hard to split) wood.
And the shorter the round the easier they are to split too...I cut to 20", so your 14-16" rounds would be playtime for my splitter.
Keep in mind too, higher tonnage takes more horsepower to run...which means more fuel consumption.

You misunderstand me. I cut to 14 to 16 inch length. These logs are 24 inch rounds and some larger. Like I said, no experience with log splitters. All I want is a splitter that can deal with these large logs. And yes, small enough to get the job done and no bigger. Smaller log splitter would save cost and fuel.

 

[brenndatomu]

You misunderstand me. I cut to 14 to 16 inch length. These logs are 24 inch rounds and some larger

Nope, I totally understand what you are saying...and I'm saying more diameter does not equate to more pressure to split (and I'll take stuff that is 4-6ft in diameter!) and yes a 14-16" long round splits easier than longer ones (like my 20s)
That 27 ton will split anything you wanna mess with, trust me...there is something VERY wrong with you buddies splitter if it wouldn't do it.

 

[sirlight]

Nope, I totally understand what you are saying...and I'm saying more diameter does not equate to more pressure to split (and I'll take stuff that is 4-6ft in diameter!) and yes a 14-16" long round splits easier than longer ones (like my 20s)
That 27 ton will split anything you wanna mess with, trust me...there is something VERY wrong with you buddies splitter if it wouldn't do it.

Got it, and thanks for the advise. If like you say that the 27 ton can split such large logs, I can't imagine why they sell 37 ton unless it is just a marketing thing. Perhaps I should reconsider the 27ton.

 

[Solarguy3500]

Nope, I totally understand what you are saying...and I'm saying more diameter does not equate to more pressure to split (and I'll take stuff that is 4-6ft in diameter!) and yes a 14-16" long round splits easier than longer ones (like my 20s)
That 27 ton will split anything you wanna mess with, trust me...there is something VERY wrong with you buddies splitter if it wouldn't do it.

^This

If the wood is straight grained and not full of knots or crotches, it should fall apart if you yell at it loud enough. I have a pile of logs, mostly oak 24" - 30" and I hand split those easily. When I get to the maple, beech, etc I pull out the 22 ton electric splitter and it has no problem.

I agree there must be something wrong with the splitter you borrowed.

 

[sirlight]

^This

If the wood is straight grained and not full of knots or crotches, it should fall apart if you yell at it loud enough. I have a pile of logs, mostly oak 24" - 30" and I hand split those easily. When I get to the maple, beech, etc I pull out the 22 ton electric splitter and it has no problem.

I agree there must be something wrong with the splitter you borrowed.

Seriously? This is green wood. My splitting axe just bounces off. I have hammered in two splitting wedges into one of the logs and it will not split. And yes, I am aware I would be better off waiting until it was dry.

 

[brenndatomu]

Do you know what species it is exactly? Most Oaks split very easily...as was mentioned, straight grained red oak (for one) will just fall in two if you wave a sharp axe at it in a threatening way...green or not...and pretty much all oak will be "green" when splitting (unless it was a dead standing tree) because oak is notorious for holding on it its moisture until its cut, split. and stacked (CSS) for 3 years or so.

 

[sirlight]

Do you know what species it is exactly? Most Oaks split very easily...as was mentioned, straight grained red oak (for one) will just fall in two if you wave a sharp axe at it in a threatening way...green or not...and pretty much all oak will be "green" when splitting (unless it was a dead standing tree) because oak is notorious for holding on it its moisture until its cut, split. and stacked (CSS) for 3 years or so.

No idea, the arborist just said oak. Attached are a couple more pictures, but I doubt they will help since you can't see the leaves from the tree. Actually a shame to cut up some of these logs for firewood when they would have made great lumber.

 

[Solarguy3500]

It does look like some of it has some good sized knots, so that might be what's giving you trouble.

When you try to hand split them, are you splitting across the knot or around it and in line with it? Do you have the knot at the top when trying to split or at the bottom? If you have the knot on top and you are trying to split across it, your axe will bounce off and you'll swear you can hear the wood chuckling at you. Make sure you put the knot down and split around it. Also, whether there is a knot or it's straight grain, don't aim for the center at first, but rather chunk the sides off first and work your way in. Makes splitting easier and you end up with nice square splits that stack easy and fit nicely in the stove. I start out by making it a square and then split it in a grid pattern.

 

[sirlight]

It does look like some of it has some good sized knots, so that might be what's giving you trouble.

When you try to hand split them, are you splitting across the knot or around it and in line with it? Do you have the knot at the top when trying to split or at the bottom? If you have the knot on top and you are trying to split across it, your axe will bounce off and you'll swear you can hear the wood chuckling at you. Make sure you put the knot down and split around it. Also, whether there is a knot or it's straight grain, don't aim for the center at first, but rather chunk the sides off first and work your way in. Makes splitting easier and you end up with nice square splits that stack easy and fit nicely in the stove. I start out by making it a square and then split it in a grid pattern.

Guess I don't know how to split wood with an axe either! All the wood I have cut in the past was with a wood permit out in the national forest. Here in Oregon, they cut down the trees or "harvest" as the call it in the managed forest. The large portions of the trees are hauled down the mountain and cut into lumber and the smaller sections are chipped for use in the paper mills. Some years it is not worth the cost to haul the trees for chipping down the mountain when chip prices are low. They leave these logs in a huge pile and you can just drive your truck to the pile and load up rounds in the 8 to 12 inch range. All these are very easy to split right down the middle with an axe. I guess I should approach the larger logs from the sides.

See the attached images from my firewood cutting back in 2013. This was really easy picking at $10 a cord for a permit. I put up 14 cords that year.

 

[Montanalocal]

Solarguy, I am a little confused about your post. You first say to split around the knot, but then say to not aim for the center and chink off the sides.

I am someone who has burned for decades and cut almost all Ponderosa pine, which is well known for having some of the biggest and most knots.

I have learned that when cutting a knotty pine round, I must always spit through the center. Otherwise you are going to try to split across the knot, which is extremely hard. You can see the split below, which I have split rather narrowly above the knot. The grain runs down and around the knot, making the split more manageable. That knot is around 6 in. across, which is very typical for a big P. pine.

You can see on the side view the swelling of the knot as it diminishes getting closer to the center of the round. I typically would burn a split like this, as I have a large firebox. If for some reason I had to reduce this in size, I would saw the split down the side just through the knot area.

 

[brenndatomu]

Solarguy, I am a little confused about your post. You first say to split around the knot, but then say to not aim for the center and chink off the sides.

I am someone who has burned for decades and cut almost all Ponderosa pine, which is well known for having some of the biggest and most knots.

I have learned that when cutting a knotty pine round, I must always spit through the center. Otherwise you are going to try to split across the knot, which is extremely hard. You can see the split below, which I have split rather narrowly above the knot. The grain runs down and around the knot, making the split more manageable. That knot is around 6 in. across, which is very typical for a big P. pine.

You can see on the side view the swelling of the knot as it diminishes getting closer to the center of the round. I typically would burn a split like this, as I have a large firebox. If for some reason I had to reduce this in size, I would saw the split down the side just through the knot area.

View attachment 287063 View attachment 287064

I understood what he was saying...go ahead and work around it/cut it out, just as you have done there, then if you want to divide the "knot split", I totally agree with you, right down the center in your first pic there...and watch out, because sometimes they pop apart with some force and can come getcha...and depending on your height, many log splitters put that "missle" right at a very dangerous height if you are one that has a precious family jewel collection!

 

[Mutineer]

That last set of oak log pics sure looks like red oak. I cut up a 40" trunk red oak in the neighbor's woods that had no branching for about the lower 40' and I just took my wedge, maul and sledge down with me to quarter the rounds in place so I could carry them up the hill to the truck and that red oak split easy as could be, 100% green wood. So one more vote for the borrowed splitter being underperforming.

 

[Corey]

Seriously? This is green wood. My splitting axe just bounces off. I have hammered in two splitting wedges into one of the logs and it will not split. And yes, I am aware I would be better off waiting until it was dry.

A lot of the problem with green wood is due to its elasticity and flexibility. The elasticity will absorb your splitting blows... sort of like trying to drive a wedge into an old tire and the flexibility means it can just 'absorb' and bend around a wedge without much stress in the surrounding wood. The main key is to split slabs off the outer edge, don't go for a 'down the center / diameter' split. No matter how big a round is, there is always a spot ~6 inches from the outer edge... aim for that.

On the splitter, pretty much what everyone else said. 27/30 ton should split about anything, 37 ton would be 'icing on the cake'. The big key is to keep the wedge reasonably sharp... it doesn't have to be a razor blade, but should be at least 'lawnmower blade' sharp. I dressed the wedge on my 30 ton splitter with a file and it will shear through 4-6 inch knots in hedge wood.

The main difference between the two splitters may still fall to cycle time (even though you mentioned they claim equal times). They both have 2-stage pumps and believe you said 11.5 second cycle. But the 37 ton would likely spend more time in that 'fast' stage, where the 30 ton might switch to the low speed/high force stage a bit earlier. Though overall, would expect this to be a pretty small difference.

If you're looking to save a bit of money, I'd say the 27 ton, a sharp wedge, and a bit of 'technique' would likely split anything you throw at it.

 

[brenndatomu]

The big key is to keep the wedge reasonably sharp... it doesn't have to be a razor blade, but should be at least 'lawnmower blade' sharp. I dressed the wedge on my 30 ton splitter with a file and it will shear through 4-6 inch knots in hedge wood.

Same with hand splitting...even more so than with a hydraulic splitter...and its shocking what a poor edge many axes and mauls come with!

But the 37 ton would likely spend more time in that 'fast' stage, where the 30 ton might switch to the low speed/high force stage a bit earlier

My 23 ton doesn't even spend that much time in "low gear"...it does have a nice sharp edge on it though too
I have a cheap lil electric splitter in the attached garage to "adjust" splits that are too large sometimes...it has a sharp edge and is impressive what it will split...my sister has a newer one and it has a rounded edge on it...total waste of time that one is...it can be fixed, but it will take some real time with a grinder....if the wedge was removable it would be easier to have the extra machined off...that's how bad it is!

 

[Tar12]

You lucky dog! Go get that splitter and get started! You are looking at 3 years out to be able to burn this oak!

 

[brenndatomu]

You lucky dog! Go get that splitter and get started! You are looking at 3 years out to able to burn this oak!

Yeah and that's not a terrible price for a splitter these days...heck many places don't even have 'em now...and if they do they want $1500 for a ~25 ish ton model...weren't no BF specials on 'em this year! (that I saw)

 

[Solarguy3500]

Solarguy, I am a little confused about your post. You first say to split around the knot, but then say to not aim for the center and chink off the sides.

I am someone who has burned for decades and cut almost all Ponderosa pine, which is well known for having some of the biggest and most knots.

I have learned that when cutting a knotty pine round, I must always spit through the center. Otherwise you are going to try to split across the knot, which is extremely hard. You can see the split below, which I have split rather narrowly above the knot. The grain runs down and around the knot, making the split more manageable. That knot is around 6 in. across, which is very typical for a big P. pine.

You can see on the side view the swelling of the knot as it diminishes getting closer to the center of the round. I typically would burn a split like this, as I have a large firebox. If for some reason I had to reduce this in size, I would saw the split down the side just through the knot area.

View attachment 287063 View attachment 287064

Thanks @Montanalocal this post is very helpful for clarification.

I think we were trying to say the same thing but I think my wording was not as clear as yours, and your pictures were very helpful to illustrate the point of splitting around the knot. I don't have ponderosa pine around here, but I'm thinking it's probably like the spruce we have here that has branches going out in every direction so the knots would be going every which way. In that case, as you say you'd probably have to pick a spot in the center in between the knots to hit it. I'm so used to oak, maple, ash, cherry, etc which typically have one or two knots that you have to deal with in a round, so you can still chunk the sides off and leave just the one side with the knot to work on last.

Here's an example of what I was trying to say with pictures to help clarify:
Red oak round about 21" long, 14" diameter with a nice knot at the bottom on one side.

I took a couple swings across the knot, and as expected the axe just bounced. Don't do it this way:

So here's what I was trying to convey earlier. First swing to the right side of the knot, going the same direction as it, not across it. Big crack, It's already mostly split:

Second swing:

Third swing on the other side of the knot:

Fourth swing on the side opposite the knot. I know I'm going across it here, but I also know it doesn't go that far through the wood, so I'm good here:

Now I'm squared up on 3 sides. Just have that knot to deal with and making some square splits.

Let's try going across the center now and see how far that knot goes into the wood. About 10 swings later and a lot of bouncing axe head, all I have to show for my efforts is a line in the wood from my axe strikes. Nothing doing.

Ok, in line with the knot again. Better luck this way.

Now we can see what was giving me so much trouble. Hint, it's not done messing with me yet.

Ok, now that I have it down to such a skinny piece of wood, let's try going across it again. Should split right in half now.

Nope! That's all I get. The knot stops it cold. About 20 swings later, flipping it upside down, laying it flat on the chopping block and hitting the side of it. It's full on laughing at me at this point and I give up. The splitter will handle that last piece.

 

[sirlight]

Thanks everyone for all the great information. I would trust the feedback here much more than the opinion from the salesman at the farm store. I never realized how much was involved in a simple thing like heating your house with wood. Thinking I should go with the 27 ton splitter and save myself $600 if there is no real advantage in going with the larger splitter.

I knew that oak tool a long time to dry, but I was hoping to burn this oak the winter of 2023. My firewood is stored in my pole barn, so there is plenty of space. It is uninsulated and metal siding. It can get quite hot in there during the summer. Is two full summers enough time, of am if looking at having to wait for the winter of 2024?