Drove 400 miles round trip for a $200 Buck model 91

[orzu7]

Greetings

I've been lurking on here for a while and learning a lot about wood stoves.(thanks to a lot of great post on here) I finally decided get one.

So a Buck model 91(1991 version) appeared on craigslist for $200. So with that said not much motivation was needed get read for a trip. Snow and a little sleet wasn't enough to let this one pass by!

For the last 3 winters I've run this home brewed heat exchanger to try to recover some of the lost energy from the fire place. It creates 15 degree rise 20 foot area but the room still feels drafty...

Enter Buck model 91

Its been sitting for a bit so she could use some TLC....

I plan on changing...
the door gasket
Cat
Ash pan gasket
Questions I have are..
Any recommendation on paint?
Any issue with sandblasting rusted area's?
I also noticed this unit only has fire brick on the floor of the burn box vs 2013 version my buddy has that has fire brick around the sides as well.... Would the additional fire brick be attached with an adhesive or pressure fitted to the sides?
Anything else I should consider when restoring this stove?

 

[ddddddden]

Congrats on your acquisition!

I’m not familiar with the Buck 91, but Woody Stover is, and he will have some tips for you.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/did-a-couple-tweaks-on-the-buck-91.107015/

Re firebrick, many steel stoves have retaining tabs welded to the sides of the firebox. The top of the side bricks tuck under these tabs. My old insert did not have such retainers, but I think the bottom of the side bricks sat below the bricks on the floor of the stove, so the floor bricks held the side bricks upright. You could cut your floor bricks to fit like this, if you decide to add side bricks.

 

[orzu7]

Those are some good points to consider. Since I'm pretty good at tig welding I 'm probably going to weld tabs on to the walls of the fire box.

What I noticed in some of the low quality picture I could find is the tabs look like angle iron or c channel... Can anyone confirm?

 

[Simonkenton]

Look at that home brewed heat exchanger. That is wild! I have never seen anything like that. You may be a mad scientist.
An eccentric genius, perhaps.

 

[kennyp2339]

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, it looks like you need a stove collar, you will also need a liner (preferably insulated) and def insulated if you don't have the proper chimney clearances and an appliance adapter to connect the liner to the stove collar. Chimney cap and liner anchoring plate for the top of the chimney.

 

[Woody Stover]

a Buck model 91(1991 version) appeared on craigslist for $200. So with that said not much motivation was needed get read for a trip. Snow and a little sleet wasn't enough to let this one pass by! I plan on changing...the door gasket, Cat, Ash pan gasket
Any recommendation on paint?
Any issue with sandblasting rusted area's?
I also noticed this unit only has fire brick on the floor of the burn box vs 2013 version my buddy has that has fire brick around the sides as well.... Would the additional fire brick be attached with an adhesive or pressure fitted to the sides?
Anything else I should consider when restoring this stove?

Welcome to the forums, orzu. Nice grab, you can hardly go wrong at that price! I got the '08 for 1K, and thought that was a deal. Man, what happened, that cat flame shield is perfectly flat!
I see my photobucket pics from the other "tweaks" post are gone so I'll re-post a few of them here. What differences have you seen between your buddy's newer 91 and the older one? Maybe you can post some pics to give us a better idea of the differences.
On the latest 91 the ash pan slides in and a strip of spring steel holds the pan tight against the gasket, no latch. I didn't mount this gasket high enough, so I blobbed it with high-temp silicon since I didn't have more gasket. Hack job, don't do this, just make sure you glue the top run of gasket higher towards where the mounting surface starts to curve out toward the handle. BTW, always use OEM gasket everywhere; It has the correct size and density for the job it needs to do. But you can just by interam gasket in a roll online..good to have plenty of extra in stock. 2" for the 91, about $2 per foot. That wraps the cat, expands and seals between the cat and the housing. There is also an OEM glass gasket where the cast iron cat housing mounts to the inner top of the firebox..get a couple extra of those to have in stock.

Here are some pics of the slider rods. Rear rod shown here (left slider) controls the shotgun air the enters the bottom front of the box, useful for starting a fresh load. I shut that one once I have the stove cruising. The front rod has two plates that control the air wash and the air channel on the roof of the box, half way back. Another tweak for getting the plates for the right slider to seal a little tighter was posted by another 91 guy on the forum. He said to unscrew and remove the plates, slide the rod out, and put it across your knee to put a slight upward bend in it. I never got a chance to try that one, just the shim in the saddle shown here. You could just extend what I did, and put thicker shims in the bottom of the saddles on both ends of the right slider rod.
I tried to cut more air because I had a problem with the plates letting too much air in, being unable to control the burn enough, and cat temp going high, 1800+. You don't want that, as it will cause the catalyst wash coat to peel off the ceramic eventually. But if you cut too much air after making the tweaks, it might backpuff and blow smoke into the room. You'll have to figure out your minimum air setting with your given installation, draft, etc. Shown also is the angle stock that secures the bricks. I might be inclined to just run the stove as is first, before adding bricks..it will certainly radiate more heat to the convection area between the firebox and the outer sheet metal, might throw more heat.



Here's the "CBN connector" or whatever they call it, that I put on to join the liner to the stove.


StoveBrite paint is the one we see recommended here..not sure if there is a primer for use with it? Depending on how good you want it to look, I might be tempted to just remove the rust with an angle grinder and cable-twist wheel, then just slap some stove polish on it. That might work for a while...

 

[orzu7]

Thanks for the responses! I have a lot to consider when it comes to restoration of the stove and installation. For the record I think insulation is great idea although none of the local "experts" seem to believe in it. I will be insulating the fire place, backing plate and liner.

Right now I'm going to focus on restoring the stove. So far I'm going to weld a thick piece of plate steel instead of keeping the ash pan opening. (I don't think I would ever use it.) I'm also going to weld in angle to hold firebrick for the back and sides. New cat plus gaskets as suggested and lastly pickup some StoveBrite in black and gold.

From what I can see on the stove the addition of fire brick on the sides is the main thing that seems to have change when looking at buddies stove in comparison to mine. I will still throw some pictures up soon.

So the lack of wave in the heat shield means my stove it hasn't seen much use?

 

[kennyp2339]

Thanks for the responses! I have a lot to consider when it comes to restoration of the stove and installation. For the record I think insulation is great idea although none of the local "experts" seem to believe in it. I will be insulating the fire place, backing plate and liner.

Right now I'm going to focus on restoring the stove. So far I'm going to weld a thick piece of plate steel instead of keeping the ash pan opening. (I don't think I would ever use it.) I'm also going to weld in angle to hold firebrick for the back and sides. New cat plus gaskets as suggested and lastly pickup some StoveBrite in black and gold.

From what I can see on the stove the addition of fire brick on the sides is the main thing that seems to have change when looking at buddies stove in comparison to mine. I will still throw some pictures up soon.

So the lack of wave in the heat shield means my stove it hasn't seen much use?

When welding in the angle iron leave a gap so you can flip in the bricks easy, any gaps will get filled in with wood ash tightening the bricks up. All in all you sound like your on the right path, I wouldn't get to crazy with insulating the actual fire box unless its huge with the insert in it, the insulated liner and block off plate is the key to success, some roxal stuffed above the block off plate will only add.

 

[Mark N MO]

Nice buy. You can download a copy of the manual here: https://buckstove.com/model-91. One thing about sandblasting that puppy, it's gonna be hard getting all the grit out of the air passages. Good idea about the ash pan, we never use ours. When I have to empty the ashes, I tip one of those hod looking buckets with the lip inside the box when shoveling. Any ash gets drawn up the chimney. Ours drafts like a sonofagun.

 

[Woody Stover]

The Buck 91 actually has a decent ash dump. Nice 3.x" X 5.x" opening with a flip-up hinged lid. Problem was that ash would get behind the hinge and make it harder to flip up the lid. Luckily my MIL had an L-shaped poker which fit perfectly in the groove behind the hinge to clean the ash out. The dump was on the left side so I first swept the pile to the left with the edge of the shovel, swept the big coals off the top of the pile and to the right, opened the lid and swept the ash into the dump. Worked pretty darn well..

I would never subtract a feature from a stove. If you don't want to use it, just don't use it. And I would never shovel ashes out of a stove unless there was no alternative. Way too much work and fiddling around, trying to keep the ash from swirling into the room, and then you have a hot mess in a pan to deal with immediately. Not when you have a decent alternative like you do here. When you have as many coals as you see here, you wanna get in and out as fast as you can, not be messing with trying to put ash in a pan cleanly..the heat will broil you and you'll be sweating your arse off in short order.
That's just me though, everyone has to figure out how they want to operate. All I'm saying is leave your options open, then seal the opening later if you still want to.

 

[mellow]

Buck hasn't changed the 91 much at all over all this time, they are a handful of stove makers in that area that are going to try and ride out as long as they can, kind of like when EPA regulations first started. The 91 is stupid simple. If the cat housing is still in good shape I would roll with that and try washing the cat before installing a new one if it is still in decent condition with very little cracks in it. I would buy a new condar catalytic probe to be on the safe side. You can also switch that out to an Auber digital with a k type thermocouple since it measures from the back of the cat. I would weld some tabs on the side using your buddies stove as a template and add firebricks to the side, that helps keep the heat in the stove so you can burn your fire at lower temps to keep the cat active.

Replace all the glass and door and cat gaskets and go over every weld with a light.

 

[orzu7]

Buck hasn't changed the 91 much at all over all this time, they are a handful of stove makers in that area that are going to try and ride out as long as they can, kind of like when EPA regulations first started. The 91 is stupid simple. If the cat housing is still in good shape I would roll with that and try washing the cat before installing a new one if it is still in decent condition with very little cracks in it. I would buy a new condar catalytic probe to be on the safe side. You can also switch that out to an Auber digital with a k type thermocouple since it measures from the back of the cat. I would weld some tabs on the side using your buddies stove as a template and add firebricks to the side, that helps keep the heat in the stove so you can burn your fire at lower temps to keep the cat active.

Replace all the glass and door and cat gaskets and go over every weld with a light.

Thermal couple sound like an awesome idea! I use them for individual cylinder tuning on my track car. Never thought to use one on the stove.... Great idea mellow!

I have a few questions about the temp probe setup on the model 91...

Does the temp probe on the model 91 reach behind the cat? Based on this picture it looks like it does....


How does it attached? Does it thread in or is it bolted in placed?

***As promised I added a few more pics to the first post. So if anyone wants to see what an older model 91 looks like.(pretty much the same as a new one if you ask me.)

 

[mellow]

It just slides in, it measures from the back of the cat.

 

[Woody Stover]

You can also switch that out to an Auber digital with a k type thermocouple since it measures from the back of the cat.

Yeah, the standard probe measures from the "back" of the cat in that it is after the cat in the air flow, but I guess you mean the TC can be set up to measure from the side of the cat that is toward the back of the stove..

Thermal couple sound like an awesome idea! I use them for individual cylinder tuning on my track car. Never thought to use one on the stove.... Great idea mellow!

There are several threads you can probably track down if you want to go off the deep end into the nerd-dom of stove operation.

I have a few questions about the temp probe setup on the model 91... Does the temp probe on the model 91 reach behind the cat? Based on this picture it looks like it does....How does it attached? Does it thread in or is it bolted in placed?

If you are talking about the stock Condar probe, it runs as shown in the purple here. Not attached, it just slides into the hole. Sometimes the probe will come with a donut magnet...that might hold the probe in place so that it comes in over the cat more parallel to the face of the cat, instead of the tip hanging down. But really, it probably doesn't make a helluva lotta difference..

Donut magnet:

 

[bob95065]

I picked up a trashed Lopi Freedom last spring for free that was in similar condition as your Buck. I welded the cracks in the air delivery ducts first. I bought a grunting wheel from Harbor Freight and spent a couple hours every weekend grinding rust off the stove. I painted it with grill spray paint I bought at Home Depot.

It was a long process but definately worth it. The stove heats the back of the house with no problems. I got the stove and liner for free. I have about $200 in parts in it. Not bad.

 

[Bmore]

Hello, great stove! I restored a 1993 buck 91. I’m in my 4th season and LOVE it. Had to replace a lot, but it wasn’t hard to do. Stove Bright paint is the way to go. Also Woody Stover is the man...

 

[ksmobile1]

The Buck 91 actually has a decent ash dump. Nice 3.x" X 5.x" opening with a flip-up hinged lid. Problem was that ash would get behind the hinge and make it harder to flip up the lid. Luckily my MIL had an L-shaped poker which fit perfectly in the groove behind the hinge to clean the ash out. The dump was on the left side so I first swept the pile to the left with the edge of the shovel, swept the big coals off the top of the pile and to the right, opened the lid and swept the ash into the dump. Worked pretty darn well..
View attachment 218254
I would never subtract a feature from a stove. If you don't want to use it, just don't use it. And I would never shovel ashes out of a stove unless there was no alternative. Way too much work and fiddling around, trying to keep the ash from swirling into the room, and then you have a hot mess in a pan to deal with immediately. Not when you have a decent alternative like you do here. When you have as many coals as you see here, you wanna get in and out as fast as you can, not be messing with trying to put ash in a pan cleanly..the heat will broil you and you'll be sweating your arse off in short order.
That's just me though, everyone has to figure out how they want to operate. All I'm saying is leave your options open, then seal the opening later if you still want to.

Woody, you seem to be very informative on this thread. I was wondering if you could answer a question for me. On a Buck Stove 91 the cat heat shield is always warping and I was wondering if there was any problems installing a thicker Shield. Or, removing the shield. I know then I would probably have to fill for cover the cat and it would not be usable.

Any suggestions? I would prefer to not modify a unit that was designed with the cat converter. I was just thinking of a thicker plate of Steel but then I reduce my Firebox height.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Leaving it with a warped Shield is not the end of the world but it just works down and takes up so much room in the Firebox.

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[Bmore]

Woody, you seem to be very informative on this thread. I was wondering if you could answer a question for me. On a Buck Stove 91 the cat heat shield is always warping and I was wondering if there was any problems installing a thicker Shield. Or, removing the shield. I know then I would probably have to fill for cover the cat and it would not be usable.

Any suggestions? I would prefer to not modify a unit that was designed with the cat converter. I was just thinking of a thicker plate of Steel but then I reduce my Firebox height.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Leaving it with a warped Shield is not the end of the world but it just works down and takes up so much room in the Firebox.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Hello, I am currently not using the heat shield. I am using a non ceramic catalyst. The manufacturer claims it was created to be used with direct flame and not be affected. So far so good. Without the shield the box is even bigger and easier to vacuum out the cat. The catalyst I have tends to eventually get clogged with ash. Vacuum it each time I clean out and the world is good again. Check out Clear Skies. Cost was about $170. Have the $ of a ceramic, I’m on my 4th season. I think a ceramic factory cat would be destroyed without the shield. As the direct hot flames will erode it...

 

[Woody Stover]

the cat heat shield is always warping and I was wondering if there was any problems installing a thicker Shield. Or, removing the shield.

Don't remove the shield or flames will slam right into the face of the cat, and flame impingement damage to the cat will result. Just take the shield out, put on some hearing protection, and beat the shield flat with a rubber mallet.

 

[ksmobile1]

Don't remove the shield or flames will slam right into the face of the cat, and flame impingement damage to the cat will result. Just take the shield out, put on some hearing protection, and beat the shield flat with a rubber mallet.

Sounds like a plan, when I acquired this stove the previous owner told me the cat could be removed. I was reluctant. Left it in.

I will beat the metal silly to flatten it out and most likely put in a new cat cartridge since it is about 10 years old

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[ksmobile1]

Hello, I am currently not using the heat shield. I am using a non ceramic catalyst. The manufacturer claims it was created to be used with direct flame and not be affected. So far so good. Without the shield the box is even bigger and easier to vacuum out the cat. The catalyst I have tends to eventually get clogged with ash. Vacuum it each time I clean out and the world is good again. Check out Clear Skies. Cost was about $170. Have the $ of a ceramic, I’m on my 4th season. I think a ceramic factory cat would be destroyed without the shield. As the direct hot flames will erode it...

Thank you for that input that would resolve to problems. I will check into that company you mentioned and see what they can do.

Thanks again thank you for that input

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[Woody Stover]

Hello, I am currently not using the heat shield. I am using a non ceramic catalyst. The manufacturer claims it was created to be used with direct flame and not be affected. So far so good. Without the shield the box is even bigger and easier to vacuum out the cat. The catalyst I have tends to eventually get clogged with ash. Vacuum it each time I clean out and the world is good again. Check out Clear Skies. Cost was about $170. Have the $ of a ceramic, I’m on my 4th season. I think a ceramic factory cat would be destroyed without the shield. As the direct hot flames will erode it...

Oh yeah, the 'Brillo Pad' cats. Clear Skies left a bitter taste in my mouth when I ordered and paid for two cats but they only sent me one. No amount of emailing and calling ever resolved the issue. Luckily it was a small, round cat for the Dutchwest, and they were only $40 apiece. I had it in my SIL's stove..seemed like it fell off in performance after a year or so.
But if it has been going 4 years for you, that would be worth a try. Like you say, a new ceramic is a lot more than $170...pushing 300, I thought. Removing the shield certainly would allow one to get more wood in there.
At what temps does the Brillo Pad run? Does it glow brightly? Does the plume look clean when the Brillo is lit off, or can you still see some smoke? Can't really remember the particulars from my SIL's since I wasn't there running it much..

 

[ksmobile1]

Oh yeah, the 'Brillo Pad' cats. Clear Skies left a bitter taste in my mouth when I ordered and paid for two cats but they only sent me one. No amount of emailing and calling ever resolved the issue. Luckily it was a small, round cat for the Dutchwest, and they were only $40 apiece. I had it in my SIL's stove..seemed like it fell off in performance after a year or so.
But if it has been going 4 years for you, that would be worth a try. Like you say, a new ceramic is a lot more than $170...pushing 300, I thought. Removing the shield certainly would allow one to get more wood in there.
At what temps does the Brillo Pad run? Does it glow brightly? Does the plume look clean when the Brillo is lit off, or can you still see some smoke? Can't really remember the particulars from my SIL's since I wasn't there running it much..

" Brillo pad" if it's not ceramic and it is not what Buck Stove put in the unit what is it actually made of? It can take direct Flame? Is it stainless steel? I am going to check the website but I don't know what to really look for. Thanks for the input and advise.

Keep warm

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[Woody Stover]

" Brillo pad" if it's not ceramic and it is not what Buck Stove put in the unit what is it actually made of? It can take direct Flame? Is it stainless steel?

I dunno, it appears to be some kind of wire mesh, then maybe dipped in and coated with the catalyst material? Looks like the price has gone up since Bmore got his. He's using it without the shield and says it's designed to withstand flame. I haven't read the site enough yet to see what they say..
http://catcombustor.mybisi.com/products/buck-stove

 

[ksmobile1]

I dunno, it appears to be some kind of wire mesh, then maybe dipped in and coated with the catalyst material? Looks like the price has gone up since Bmore got his. He's using it without the shield and says it's designed to withstand flame. I haven't read the site enough yet to see what they say..
http://catcombustor.mybisi.com/products/buck-stove
View attachment 221563

Thanks, yes I did locate that on clear skies website it seems to be very interesting and an upgrade and it is not ceramic. They have good reviews and a reasonably good warranty. I may order one and see how it does. The existing one in the unit is over 12 years 13 years old and I am sure it's met its day.

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