Dummy Tree Cutting Advice

[Czech]

I've dropped a few trees in my life, but a neighbor wants me to fell one a little bigger and closer to structure than I've done before. For those of us that are weekend diy tree feller wantabees, what are the basics when felling a tree? Specific to trees not needing topping with clearance to fall, what's the best way to do the primary cuts to make it go where you want, safety stuff needed, tie offs if needed, saw bar size as opposed to tree size limitations, etc. Help? Darn pellets and old age have made me forget about this stuff.

 

[MrGriz]

I can't give you too many specifics on the how to side. I will tell you to be extremely careful and not to tackle something you're not comfortable with. If you're not sure about this one, you may want to have someone else drop it and help your friend cut it up to save him some cash.

If you go that route, maybe you can find a pro that will let you watch closely and give you some pointers along the way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you can't handle it. Just be careful.

 

[Czech]

Can't stress careful enough, that's why I'm asking and thanks Griz for the advice. I'm thinking this one is within my knowledge and experience, but in thinking about it more, I wondered. What are the basics when cutting a tree (esp safety) that can be shared on this page with other diy'ers with a chainsaw (without getting Web in trouble liability wise)? I was just hoping that maybe the experts out there could help us non-experts to know when we're over our heads and should think twice. On the other hand, I think there are some tree jobs that most people with common sense can handle. I highly stress common sense and safety! Where's the dividing line and when should one ask for help? Are there basics that can be shared for any tree fellings?

 

[Czech]

Heck, Griz, just noticed we're darn near neighbors. You're not the fishing Griz here in MN, are ya? If so, I have plans for you this weekend beyond and much more important than felling trees.

 

[MrGriz]

Nope, not me. Where in MN are you?

 

[Czech]

Twin Cities basically, work in Hudson WI. Spend alot of time your side of the border. The 'Griz' here is a well known fishing guide, I was just hoping as I need help on that end of things also.

 

[mtarbert]

Hire a PRO ....heck...let Him hire a pro or risk having a pi..ed-off neighbor for years.If you don't hire a pro at least make sure you film the debacle you may get material for "Americas Funniest Videos"
Mike

 

[keyman512us]

I've dropped a few trees in my life, but a neighbor wants me to fell one a little bigger and closer to structure than I've done before. For those of us that are weekend diy tree feller wantabees, what are the basics when felling a tree? Specific to trees not needing topping with clearance to fall, what's the best way to do the primary cuts to make it go where you want, safety stuff needed, tie offs if needed, saw bar size as opposed to tree size limitations, etc. Help? Darn pellets and old age have made me forget about this stuff.

***Disclaimer Notice***...If in doubt contact a proffessional, etc,etc,etc.

With the disclaimer out of the way...start looking around, and asking around "the campfire" in your local area "just exactly who the pro's are...and "were". You might find an "old timer" that has retired...but still likes to stay active...just "can't keep up with the younger crowd".

...This is the "best way to learn (any) trade". You can get all the "info from a book"....all the advice here on the net...but it's basically worthless compared to someone able to put their back against the tree looking up and visualizing where it's going to land.

A pro can take everything into account and "play it out in their mind" how it's going to go. It's a hard thing to learn...until experience "teaches you".

I'm not gonna try to go into too much detail...I cut trees "but don't consider myself an expert" for this simple reason: Even the 'Pros' have bad days...you can be taught a lesson at any time.
The "Expert Attitude" can bite you on the backside....Always believe in Murphy's law.

One thing I will say though...A tree with a rope "steering it"...almost always lands where you want it.

 

[keyman512us]

I've dropped a few trees in my life, but a neighbor wants me to fell one a little bigger and closer to structure than I've done before. For those of us that are weekend diy tree feller wantabees, what are the basics when felling a tree? Specific to trees not needing topping with clearance to fall, what's the best way to do the primary cuts to make it go where you want, safety stuff needed, tie offs if needed, saw bar size as opposed to tree size limitations, etc. Help? Darn pellets and old age have made me forget about this stuff.

***Disclaimer Notice***...If in doubt contact a proffessional, etc,etc,etc.

With the disclaimer out of the way...start looking around, and asking around "the campfire" in your local area "just exactly who the pro's are...and "were". You might find an "old timer" that has retired...but still likes to stay active...just "can't keep up with the younger crowd".

...This is the "best way to learn (any) trade". You can get all the "info from a book"....all the advice here on the net...but it's basically worthless compared to someone able to put their back against the tree looking up and visualizing where it's going to land.

A pro can take everything into account and "play it out in their mind" how it's going to go. It's a hard thing to learn...until experience "teaches you".

I'm not gonna try to go into too much detail...I cut trees "but don't consider myself an expert" for this simple reason: Even the 'Pros' have bad days...you can be taught a lesson at any time.
The "Expert Attitude" can bite you on the backside....Always believe in Murphy's law.

One thing I will say though...A tree with a rope "steering it"...almost always lands where you want it.

Now guys. If you need to use a rope for "STEERING" a tree, you shouldn't be going anywhere near a chainsaw.
Murphy had it easy. Goldberg's Law: Murphy was an optimist. Houses are like magnets to nearby trees...something about the electrons surrounding the home. :lol:

"I take it you are a 'cowboy'..." of the 'Notch it and watch it' philosophy...yup love that "train of thought"...

Don't need a rope? Ever hear of this little thing called wind???..lol

ROPE...Is the cheapest Insurance...

I hope you said that "tongue and cheek"...and yes it might be a little too much for the "backyard warrior".

I knew this was going to happen... Thats why I didn't mention wedges... lol

 

[Bill]

I've dropped over 100 trees and every once in a while things go wrong. Although the ones I dropped were mostly on hilly areas. If they catch another tree the direction can change or they can get hung up. Sometimes a tree has a mind of it's own. Had to replace a 16' cedar rail on my deck last year, darn Hickory clipped the deck when it fell.

I had one growing over my pole barn, when the loggers came out, they were kind enough to take that one down for me. The way it leaned I could see the roof collapse in front of me. I guess what I am getting to is don't take a chance. Get a pro to drop it and buck it up yourself. It's a real funny feeling you get in your gut when you see it going the wrong way and your helpless to stop it.

I am not a professional logger and I drop trees only in the woods.

 

[Czech]

Now we're talking, cool, just what I wanted. I don't like the feeling that a guy with a saw and some experience and knowledge can't whack a tree without calling in the experts. Kind of like when I installed the pellet stove without a permit last year (sorry Elk! But the clothes dryer was tougher than the stove). Just wondering where you call it quits and say too much, if you're like me, that's when things go wrong (guy thing?). There are basics to felling a tree safely, no one wants to share? The tree I'm talkng is a 30' 16" maple, I think the top branches may just kiss the house. First cut straight 1/3 to 2/3's of diam, notch cut to meet, take the wedge out, back hinge cut 1-2" above first cut? No ropes. I know about chainsaws, I work in a rural hospital. Happy Friday all, be back in a minute as the Labatt is calling. No tree felling tonight, unless nature does it on her own.

 

[Gooserider]

IMHO, a rope MIGHT help direct a SMALL tree that was going almost where you wanted it anyway. They are NOT going to do magic to correct one thats going wrong, and when you feel the tree start to shift it's to darn late to do much other than run...

When I'm looking at a tree, I try to score it on a 1-10 scale for "danger level" - A "1" tree is reasonable size, in the middle of an area where you don't care which way it goes, or has a major lean in the desired direction. From there I add points for size (height or diameter), closeness to stuff you don't want it to fall on, leaning in undesireable direction (more lean = more points) etc... A narrow "drop window" adds points, a big window subtracts... A "10" DANGER TREE, would be a monster next to the house, leaning towards it... I consider anything over about a "5" to be the realm of the pro's, and won't touch it.

Gooserider

 

[Gooserider]

Just wondering where you call it quits and say too much, if you're like me, that's when things go wrong (guy thing?). There are basics to felling a tree safely, no one wants to share? The tree I'm talkng is a 30' 16" maple, I think the top branches may just kiss the house. First cut straight 1/3 to 2/3's of diam, notch cut to meet, take the wedge out, back hinge cut 1-2" above first cut? No ropes. I know about chainsaws, I work in a rural hospital. Happy Friday all, be back in a minute as the Labatt is calling. No tree felling tonight, unless nature does it on her own.

All trees are "10". Period. Kind of like firearms .

Some armchair QBing from a distance for your happy-maple-to-kiss-the-house that you can think over:
1. Find the lean direction. All trees have a direction of lean and/or top weighting--they grow that way. You'll be surprised how it's easy to see the trunk lean. Walk around the base again. The crown branches will be larger usually towards the south, not always.
2.Learn how a strong hinge, cut correctly will allow the weight of the tree to hinge where you want it.
3. Wedges, even with a 16" DBH will lever the tree over so that the good hinge will carry the weight of the falling wood in the direction needed.
4. Undercut so that the trunk falls right: no "bounce back", no slide to one side, no "barber chair" slice up the trunk.
5. Back cut slow and carefully. Keep that hinge strong and straight across the complete width of the trunk. Stop. Look. Listen. Pound those wedges in (they are the real plastic ones, aren't they ?). Listen with your muffs off while pounding.
5. Want to use a rope ? OK, I give. Get a good one, get it high. Get plenty of tension with carabiners and a come-along. Secure it at a good angle to another tree ( don't have "your friend" or wife pull ).
All part of the thinking and planning even for a 16". Get out the camcorder.
Walk away if the tree looks too demanding. We do it all the time.

DE, I'm going to argue with you a bit... I agree ALL trees are potentially dangerous, but like Orwell says about animals, "Some trees are more dangerous than others". If you just say "All trees are "10" Period" then you are left without a means of evaluating how "extra" dangerous a given tree might be. It is that "extra" that makes the difference between the tree that needs a pro, and one that doesn't... Firearms can be handled safely, but not all trees can, and my "danger scale" is the tool that I use to tell the difference.

The rest of your points make sense, though I'll admit the trees that I've been dropping haven't been big enough to even think about using a wedge - by the time I cut my notch, the backcut barely, or doesn't even go the full width of the blade - these are trees that are probably 8-10" DBH or less, typically 1-4 splits / round.

Gooserider

 

[Gooserider]

If you are a "pro" you might not need a scale because you can internalize all the considerations. I'm not a pro, and the OP is not, so I'm looking at how do I evaluate a tree as to whether I can drop it, (and how) or if I need to call a pro.

I'm also more limited in my choices - The pro likely has a cherry picker, or a crane, certainly will have the gear to climb the tree and take it down in peices, remove problem branches, etc... I don't have the gear or the skills to do that, so I am pretty much limited to "cut a notch facing the fall direction, and do the back-cut, hope it falls the right way..." The pro gets to pick from a menu of possible approaches, I've got to decide if my one approach will do the job or not.

So I walk up to the tree - it starts at a zero... Could start it at a 10, and subtract points, but it works out the same either way... I also don't say it has to be done in this order, but I think all of these things need to be looked at.

1. How big is it? A 4-5" sapling is almost "notch and push" to put it where you want it, up to about 8" you can give a lot of directional encouragement with a rope, etc. The bigger the tree is, the more it is going to want to go where IT wants to, and the harder it is for you to put it where YOU want it... My saw has a 16" bar, and I'm not real great at the "cut from each side" drill. Add points for size.

2. How wide is the "drop window" and what is it that limits the window? A wide window gers fewer points, a narrow one gets more. If the limits on each side are something that REALLY doesn't want to get hit (like a building) add points, if its something less critical (like a tree one might get hung on, or a flower bed that's repairable though you'd rather not...) subtract...

3. Which way is the lean? Which way does the tree appear to be balanced? As I put it on another post, if the trunk was severed by a "Martian Disintegration Ray" which way would the tree fall? Subtract points the more it leans toward the drop window, add points if it goes any other direction, the worse the lean the more points. If the lean is in the direction of something expensive, double the points added.

3A. Is there anything else that might cause a problem - Rot in the trunk? Limited escape paths? Other issues? add points as appropriate...

4. Assume the tree does go the wrong way - how disastrou$ly expen$ive is that "Oh $#!t" momemnt? A hang is a PITA, and dangerous in it's own right, but can be dealt with, not a big deal. A house *IS* a big deal... Add points for big money "Murphy's Law Moments"

5. Look at the "comfort factor" - how positive are you about the assesments for 1-4? If you feel really certain, subtract; if you're really not sure, add a point or two.

Look at the total - if it's higher than your comfort level, label it a "DANGER tree" and call a pro. If it's lower, put on the PPE and fire that saw up...

I would also say that there is a "bell curve" in looking, the obvious danger trees won't take long to recognize, and the easy trees aren't much harder. It's the ones that are on the border that need to be REALLY looked at hard to decide one way or the other... I see nothing wrong with spending an hour or more looking at a "Do I or Don't I" tree because you shouldn't decide yes until you really feel sure...

I know one of my personal preferences is that I may look at trees in the summer to see how healthy they look in order to decide what might need to come down, but I usually will only try to drop a tree when the leaves are off it as I feel that makes it easier to judge the lean and weight balance questions if there are no leaves masking things.

Gooserider

 

[mtarbert]

This my help ....last Saturday my neighbor came over to borrow some rope to help him cut down a tree.....well about a half hour later I hear a crash and my wife says "Mark just dropped a tree on his house " and I should go over and help him. I told her I wasn't going over because he might think I was going over to gloat.Well for sure he hit his house and tore the corner off the garage. He should have taped the felling that way if (when) things go wrong at least he would have something for Americas funniest videos.......HIRE A PRO !
Mike

 

[Yooper Burning]

Some very good advice in the replies. If you question you ability, AT ALL, it is best to call in the pros. Especially if it isn't even your house. At least the pros carry insurance if they mess up. I'm not sure how the insurance company looks at it if you happen to drop a tree on your house, and don't care to find out.

I run the hazard tree program at the park I where I work and therefor drop a lot of sketchy trees. Usually dead or with some level of decay, and often near targets that we do not want destroyed. We have a number of highly trained sawyers that have years of experience and even we call a tree service for some trees. We utilize felling wedges quite often just to make sure the tree falls where we want it to. Rigging a sytem of ropes, winches, and/or come-alongs is best left for someone that does it all the time or has more appropriate equipment. I've used a come-along a few times to pull a tree away from something like an outhouse, but I wouldn't depend on that method if it was my actual house and the tree was larger than about 15" dbh with a lean towards the bay window. :bug:

 

[velvetfoot]

Needless to say, stay away from high voltage wires as well.

 

[Gooserider]

Needless to say, stay away from high voltage wires as well.

Agreed, on my "danger evaluation" I didn't specify, but figure that powerlines (or telephone and / or cable tv lines for that matter) fall in both the "other issues" and "things you REALLY don't want to hit" categories... I don't know for certain what the Utility companies reaction would be if you dropped a tree on their gear, but I suspect they'd be peeved When I had my last batch of "danger trees" dropped, I deliberately included several that were overhanging our utility drops just because I didn't want to risk hitting the wires.

However it is worth pointing out that if you have stuff near the wires, it MAY be worth calling the utility companies and asking them to come trim and / or drop anything close. I've been told that the utilities don't mind doing this, and when I tried it, they did improve the situation considerably - they dropped one tree completely, and trimmed another enough that I was able to drop it myself - I figure this saved me a couple hundred bucks on the job... Certainly it's worth making the call.

Gooserider

 

[slofr8]

3A. Is there anything else that might cause a problem - Rot in the trunk?

I used to log back in the '80's but cut now just for fire wood. Probably dropped a couple hundred thousand trees. I used to make a game of trying to swing a tree to make it fall where it didn't seem to be leaning. Assuming ideal conditions and 12:00 is where the tree is leaning, I could easily get it to go anywhere from 10:00 to 2:00. with out the aid of a wedge, but I sometimes messed up. In the middle of the woods it's not a big deal. Just a funny look from the guy driving the skidder, but next to a house is something else.
One big thing that I watch for that can make conditions less then ideal was rot as mentioned above. Also limbs sticking way out. Wind. Snow in the branches of soft wood. A frozen tree won't swing and niether will a dead dry one. The list gos on.
Someone who has a lot of experience can size this up in a minute.
With out seeing the situation it would be hard to give any advice. Heck, if you were near by I'd drive over and have a look myself. Chances are it's an easy job but it's impossible to tell over the web. If I can compare the thought process to a game of chess, a beginner looks at the position and sees a hundred possible moves he has to sort through. The experienced player will consider only a couple because the other moves don't make sense to him. He's been there and done that. Just as you are proficiant in yout chosen field, the logger has spent time honing skills to be good at his.
I have a friend who is in the logging buisness and doesn't even own a goon chainsaw! He has a proceser and does his work sitting in an air conditioned cab. Falling trees is becoming a lost art.
If there is any logging done in your area, have your neighbor ask at the local chain saw dealer and he's sure to know someone who would give him a hand, not someone who has his wood delivered and saws fire wood but someone who drops them for a living.
Good luck and be safe.
Dan.

 

[wg_bent]

Read This:

(broken link removed to http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/files/cs/banners/chainsaw_cons.pdf)

Really good manual on how to use a chain saw.