duravent roof support

[greythorn3]

hi i am going to install a roof support for my 8" duravent chimeny, in the manual it says to put the flashing on first for a existing roof after the supoprt is on but not to install the chimeny untill after the flashing is installed.. well how do you get the screws thru the support into the chimeny with the flashing in place? im confused by the instructions for this step.


Ray

heres a link to the instructions im reading (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L150_Sept09.pdf)

 

[Hogwildz]

hi i am going to install a roof support for my 8" duravent chimeny, in the manual it says to put the flashing on first for a existing roof after the supoprt is on but not to install the chimeny untill after the flashing is installed.. well how do you get the screws thru the support into the chimeny with the flashing in place? im confused by the instructions for this step.


Ray

heres a link to the instructions im reading (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L150_Sept09.pdf)

Not sure which page you read that on. On pages 15 & 16, it states to determine how much pipe ya need to extend into the room, then fasted roof support band to pipe with screws, then slide roof flashing down and fasten to roof.
Makes sense to me.

 

[greythorn3]

if you go to the fashing section for the roof, it says INSTALL FLASHING FIRST on pre exisisting roof before chimeny is installed in support.. they section you read is the way for a new construction.. now how do you get the screws in the band on the roof support to the chimeny if the flashing is installed first.???

 

[Hogwildz]

Your reading the wrong directions which are for ceiling supported installations.
If your using the roof supported install method, you want to read & follow the directions under "ROOF SUPPORTED INSTALLATIONS" on pages 13 through 16.
In particular the instructions you need to follow for the roof installation bracket are on page 15 number 2A.

With so many options all listed in same instructions, it can ge confusing as to which ones pertain to you.
Use common sense, which you are doing since you realize the ceiling support method doesn't make sense. You just focused on the wrong installation methods, which pertain ti ceiling support box installation. Focus on the roof supported installations in section 2A and it should now make sense, as it is a different procedure.

Here it is:
2A
(2) A Roof Support is also used in installations where there is a cathedral ceiling, and a
Square Ceiling Support is not desired. The Roof Support allows the DuraTech chimney to come down into the room below the level of the ceiling (Fig 21). The Roof Support can
support a maximum of 45 feet of DuraTech Chimney total, and maximum of 20 feet below
the support. If a taller stack of DuraTech Chimney is required, you must use a Square Ceiling Support Box instead.

1. Cut and frame opening to provide a minimum 2” clearance on all sides of the
chimney pipe. Note: Opening in finished
ceiling should be circular/oval in order for it to be covered by Trim Collar.

2. Bolt on the Roof Support Brackets to the Roof Support Band using the supplied hardware. Attach the Roof Support Brackets to roof using (4) 8 penny nails or (4) #8, 1-1/2” screws per side (Fig 21).

3. Determine how much DuraTech Chimney will be extending into the room (minimum of
3” below the ceiling). Be sure to maintain the proper clearance to combustibles (walls and ceilings) for the connector pipe. Once you have
identified the proper height for your installation,
attach the of the Roof Support Band to the Chimney Section by tightening the Bolt, and secure it by using (4) supplied sheet metal screws.

4. Attach desired length of Chimney Sections
above and below the roof level (max. of 45’
total, 20’ below the support). To transition to the Connector Pipe, attach the Finishing Collar by twist locking it to the bottom section of DuraTech Chimney.

5. Slide Trim Collar over the DuraTech Chimney and attach the Trim Collar to the ceiling using
(4) 1-1/4” screws provided (Fig 21). (This is interior trim collar at the ceiling)

6. Refer to Steps 10 & 11 in the Ceiling Supported Installation section (page 9) to complete the Roof Supported installation.


I understand the way they word it, its still confusing. But at this point you want just enough piping through the roof that it will be just a bit higher than the flashing when flashing is installed.
Then install the roof flashing, & storm collar, and lastly install the remaining piping and the cap.


Did you want the class A to show inside the home? Why aren't you using the ceiling support box?
The directions should be written better, and should not have a person jumping from section to section. But it is what it is.

 

[greythorn3]

9. Attach Flashing: In new construction,
assemble the Chimney Sections to a point
above the roof, then slip the Flashing over
the chimney. On an existing roof, center
and install the Flashing before extending the
chimney above the roof

Now how are you going to get the screws into the chimeny thru the roof support band when the flashing is in place?????? look at attachment.

 

[Hogwildz]

Are you doing a ceiling support install? If so don't use the roof bracket.
If your doing a roof bracket support install, you don't use #9 of the CEILING SUPPORT INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS!
You go from the roof support instructions to #'s 10 & 11 of the ceiling support instructions.
It clearly states PAGE 9 #'s 10 & 11. NOT PAGE 9, #9.
You may be better off having a pro install it. I give up. Use common sense for gods sakes.

 

[greythorn3]

I am using the adjustable roof support.. like in the picture on the left..

What your not understanding is in the attach flashing section it reads (page 10) =

On an existing roof, center and install the Flashing before extending the chimney above the roof.

how can i install the chimeny after the flashing is installed???? if im using the adjustable roof support. i am not using any ceiling support. just a ceiling trim ring.

i appreciate the help, its just that i dont think we are understanding each other.

Ray

 

[jtp10181]

The roof supported section starts on page 13. I read in there where it then refers you back to the ceiling supported directions for the flashing part so as not to duplicate the information. The part about putting the flashing on first is meant only for ceiling supported installs, since it is in the ceiling supported install section they overlooked putting a note in there about it that fact.

Why are you making such a big deal about it? Its is merely a suggestion to aid in getting the flashing under the shingles properly. It is obvious it is an error (oversight) in the instructions. Move on.

 

[greythorn3]

The roof supported section starts on page 13. I read in there where it then refers you back to the ceiling supported directions for the flashing part so as not to duplicate the information. The part about putting the flashing on first is meant only for ceiling supported installs, since it is in the ceiling supported install section they overlooked putting a note in there about it that fact.

Why are you making such a big deal about it? Its is merely a suggestion to aid in getting the flashing under the shingles properly. It is obvious it is an error (oversight) in the instructions. Move on.

so where does it say how to install the roof flashing on a existing roof with the adjustable roof support bracket? how do i know how to install it? all i want to know is how to install it properly with the roof support bracket on a existing roof.. can somone tell me how to do this if its not in the manual?

im not trying to make a big deal, i just want to know how to install it.


Ray

 

[Hogwildz]

I spelled it out pretty clearly by the numbers up a few posts. That should be all ya need.
If it still don't make sense, you should not be doing the install.
Not being mean, but being to the point, and I'd rather appear like a prick and wish it done safely by someone who understands, than have someone guess at it and possibly put him/her &/or their family in danger.
It really is commons sense, and if ya can't grasp it, ya have no doing it as a DIY project. Please patiently re-read the directions till you understand. If ya can't understand, please do not do the install yourself.
Only concern for safety, not trying to belittle you.

 

[greythorn3]

(2) A Roof Support is also used in installations where there is a cathedral ceiling, and a
Square Ceiling Support is not desired. The Roof Support allows the DuraTech chimney
to come down into the room below the level of the ceiling. The Roof Support can
support a maximum of 45 feet of DuraTech Chimney total, and maximum of 20 feet below
the support. If a taller stack of DuraTech Chimney is required, you must use a Square
Ceiling Support Box instead.

1. Cut and frame opening to provide a minimum 2” clearance on all sides of the
chimney pipe. Note: Opening in finished ceiling should be circular/oval in order for it to
be covered by Trim Collar.

2. Bolt on the Roof Support Brackets to the Roof Support Band using the supplied
hardware. Attach the Roof Support Brackets to roof using (4) 8 penny nails or (4) #8, 1-1/2” screws per side.

(broken image removed)

3. Determine how much DuraTech Chimney will be extending into the room (minimum of
3” below the ceiling). Be sure to maintain the proper clearance to combustibles (walls and
ceilings) for the connector pipe. Once you have identified the proper height for your installation, attach the of the Roof Support Band to the Chimney Section by tightening the Bolt, and secure it by using (4) supplied sheet metal screws.

4. Attach desired length of Chimney Sections above and below the roof level (max. of 45’
total, 20’ below the support). To transition to the Connector Pipe, attach the Finishing Collar by twist locking it to the bottom section of DuraTech Chimney.

5. Slide Trim Collar over the DuraTech Chimney and attach the Trim Collar to the ceiling using (4) 1-1/4” screws provided (Fig 21).

6. Refer to Steps 10 & 11 in the Ceiling Supported Installation section (page 9) to
complete the Roof Supported installation.

9. Attach Flashing: In new construction, assemble the Chimney Sections to a point
above the roof, then slip the Flashing over the chimney. On an existing roof, center
and install the Flashing before extending the chimney above the roof. Allow space to permit
sliding the next Chimney Section up through the Flashing. Always insure the chimney
remains vertical (use a level), and that at least a 2-inch clearance to combustible materials is maintained all around. Install the upper edge of the Flashing under the roofing. Nail to the
roof along the upper edge and down each side with 1-inch roofing nails. Do not nail the lower edge of the Flashing (Fig 12). Seal top and upper sides of flashing with roofing compound or sealant. Be sure to follow local building practices, as needed. Seal all nail heads with a non-hardening waterproof sealant. On flat or tarred and graveled roofs, nail and seal the Flat Roof Flashing to the roof on all sides with roofing compound. Do not put screws through the Flashing into the Chimney Pipe.

10. Finish Top: Apply a high-temperature (500ºF), non-hardening waterproof sealant
around the chimney at the point where the Storm Collar will meet the chimney just above
the Flashing. (Figures 12 and 13). Slide the Storm Collar down over the chimney to
the top of the Flashing. Tighten and seal the Storm Collar against the sealant. After
installing sufficient Chimney Sections to meet the height requirement (Fig 1), attach the
Chimney Cap onto the top of the chimney by holding the collar of the cap and twist locking
it clockwise onto the chimney. Do not hold upper portion of the cap and twist, as this may
damage the cap. The Chimney Cap can be removed for chimney cleaning as described
in the Chimney Maintenance section of the instructions. Use an Extended Roof Bracket if
the chimney extends more than 5 feet above the roof. (Figures 16 & 17 in the Extended
Roof Bracket section). If you are located in heavy snow country, it is recommended
that a “splitter” be installed, and should be fabricated from heavy gauge sheet metal (Fig
Figure 14). This will protect the chimney by routing the snow around it. This item is not furnished by Simpson Dura-Vent.

11. Enclosures: Enclose chimneys where they pass through occupied spaces, including
closets. Always maintain at least a 2 inch clearance between the chimney and any
combustible materials. Interior enclosures may be constructed with standard framing and
sheathed with sheetrock or plywood. Use Wall Straps as needed to maintain a minimum of 2
inches of air space between the chimney and combustible materials.


All i want is help understanding this so i can complete it safely, no question is a stupid question i was taught, please dont belittle me or go to personal attacks, all i am asking for is you professional help. Im a 38 year old man, i will admit i dont understand everything in life, and that is why i am here seeking your advice. all i ask for is help.

Thank You

Ray

 

[Hogwildz]

For the roof support bracket, install it and enough pipe to get through the roof and be higher than the top of the roof flashing say by about a foot.
Install it just as in the picture you posted(figure 21), tighten the clamp of the roof bracket around the pipe, then install you roof flashing.
Before you even cut the hole for the roof, remove enough shingles to be able to set the flashing flat on the deck. After your install the roof flashing, reinstall the shingles you removed, or use new ones to fill in.
The shingles cover the sides & top of the flashing and you cut them in tight agaist where the base of the roof flashing meets the part that raises up off the roof. The course or two of shingles at the bottom of the flashing go UNDERNEATH the roof flashing, they actually have to go on AFTER THE ROOF SUPPORT BRACKET & BEFORE THE ROOF FLASHING. The install roof flashing, shingel the rest in over the roof flashing cutting in tight as I said above.
Then install the storm collar and the rest of the outside piping, then the cap. Then your done.

 

[jtp10181]

I spelled it out pretty clearly by the numbers up a few posts. That should be all ya need.
If it still don't make sense, you should not be doing the install.
Not being mean, but being to the point, and I'd rather appear like a prick and wish it done safely by someone who understands, than have someone guess at it and possibly put him/her &/or their family in danger.
It really is commons sense, and if ya can't grasp it, ya have no doing it as a DIY project. Please patiently re-read the directions till you understand. If ya can't understand, please do not do the install yourself.
Only concern for safety, not trying to belittle you.

Agreed, maybe you should hire a pro to do the install?

 

[Highbeam]

On those last shingles upstream of the flashing, rather than cutting them tight to the vertical part of that flashing I like to see about a 1/2" gap there to allow junk to flow away from the shingles and not get stuck under them.

 

[greythorn3]

On those last shingles upstream of the flashing, rather than cutting them tight to the vertical part of that flashing I like to see about a 1/2" gap there to allow junk to flow away from the shingles and not get stuck under them.

good advice i will see what i can do, my singles are pretty old and brittle im hoping i will be able to take them off and reinstall them around the chimeny where needed. i been googling and looks like i will need some roofing cement to reinstall them and to cover the nail heads also.. what do you recomend for adhesive / sealant under the flashing??

 

[Highbeam]

I think Hog is the expert on roofing but I propose that if you do it right, you won't need any cement. I would hate to depend on cement for anything other than the very last ridge cap shingle. My chimney system only uses caulking material at the storm collar connections.

 

[Hogwildz]

On those last shingles upstream of the flashing, rather than cutting them tight to the vertical part of that flashing I like to see about a 1/2" gap there to allow junk to flow away from the shingles and not get stuck under them.

Not a bad suggestion actually.
I have seen & done it both ways. leaving a 1/2" as Highbeam said will let granulars, junk etc flow down & off.
Cutting them in tight keeps the junk from getting in there also. Either way works. Some also using a lil bit of roofing cement under the perimeter of the flashing base for added weatherproof protection. It works. But if done correctly, you shouldn't need it. The other problem with using roof cement is if you go to put a new roof or flashing or whatever on, its a mess and pita to get up. Ive also seen guys use silicone or sealant along the cut edges of the shingles on the top half where they go around the flashing. Problem is in time the shingles shrink, and or delaminate/loose granulars, and the silicone pops loose. Works for a few years but never lasts real long.
Urethane caulk will last longer, but again, if donew correctly, no caulk should be needed. Some use it anyways as an extra layer of protection. Take your time, do it right the first time.

Whatever you do, dont just lay the roof flashing on top of all the shingles, nail it down & caulk or muck the edges. It will leak eventually when the sealant cracks or breaks loose.

 

[Hogwildz]

I think Hog is the expert on roofing but I propose that if you do it right, you won't need any cement. I would hate to depend on cement for anything other than the very last ridge cap shingle. My chimney system only uses caulking material at the storm collar connections.

Highbeam is correct. No sealant on shingles is really necessary, unless it is a very slight pitch to the roof. In that case, muck(roofing cement) under the shingles at the edges that are nearest the flashing and along the bottoms of the shingles that rest over the top of the flashing, this will deter leaking caused by ice damns in freeze, thaw, refreeze situations especially on say a 4/12 or less roof pitch. You don't have to go nuts nailing the flashing down. Say one on all for corners about an 1-1/2" to 2" away from the flashing edge, and one or two in between, same distance from flashing edges, and the muck under each shingle you put on will cover the nail heads also along with the shingle itself. on the bottom course or two of shingles, which should be under the flashing, the nail heads might show, use either silicone, but you must work it in kinda like swirling it and working it into the metal, like welding with your finger. Or use urethane caulk. Urethane is more expensive, but one you put it on, its stuck on, and you don't have to work the heck out of it to get it to adhere real well, it does that very quick and easily. Urethane caulk is messier and harder to clean up, so take your time and go easy if you choose to use it. Don't bother mucking the on top of the shingles where they meet the flashing as it looks like crap, it will crack after a couple freeze, thaws, and when it cracks it will allow water under it and defeat the entire purpose of putting in on there in the first place. Underneath the shingles out of sight and out of the weather is where it belongs if you choose to use it. Just remember if you need to work that area again for whatever reason in the future. You ain't getting those shingles up in one piece, the much will cause it all to tear before you get it loose.
Honestly, anything say a 6/12 pitch and up, I personally don;t use sealant, except on the storm collar & any nail heads that may show. a lil sealant as I saif before on the upper shingles that go over the top of the flashing is ok wo deter ice damning, but on a 6/12 or more pitch, your not going to get much ice damn there.

One last note. I always try to avoid putting any more nails to fasten the shingles around the flashing as possible, it gives more paths of any water that might find its way underneath to get through the flashing & decking.
Meaning, along the sides & top of the flashing as you nail the edges of the shingles down, nail through the shingle towards just inside & through the edge of the flashing. which keeps it 3 or 4 inches away from the flashing vertical areas, and less chance of water running down the vertical part of the flashing, under the shingle and finding the nail head.

 

[greythorn3]

On those last shingles upstream of the flashing, rather than cutting them tight to the vertical part of that flashing I like to see about a 1/2" gap there to allow junk to flow away from the shingles and not get stuck under them.

Not a bad suggestion actually.
I have seen & done it both ways. leaving a 1/2" as Highbeam said will let granulars, junk etc flow down & off.
Cutting them in tight keeps the junk from getting in there also. Either way works. Some also using a lil bit of roofing cement under the perimeter of the flashing base for added weatherproof protection. It works. But if done correctly, you shouldn't need it. The other problem with using roof cement is if you go to put a new roof or flashing or whatever on, its a mess and pita to get up. Ive also seen guys use silicone or sealant along the cut edges of the shingles on the top half where they go around the flashing. Problem is in time the shingles shrink, and or delaminate/loose granulars, and the silicone pops loose. Works for a few years but never lasts real long.
Urethane caulk will last longer, but again, if donew correctly, no caulk should be needed. Some use it anyways as an extra layer of protection. Take your time, do it right the first time.

Whatever you do, dont just lay the roof flashing on top of all the shingles, nail it down & caulk or muck the edges. It will leak eventually when the sealant cracks or breaks loose.

Thanks for all the help guys, i really do appreciate it very much.

Ray