Dutchwest Stoves: UPDATED. FOUND A NON CAT DUTCH WEST

[BrowningBAR]

I have an opportunity to upgrade my old Vermont Casting Vigilant stove with a Dutch West stove. I have a few questions before I take the next step (which would be driving two hours to take a look at it).

1) Which model is the stove?
The owner is saying it is the Large 0002461 model, but some of the design elements seem different. Is it because it is an older version or is the owner mistaken? (And I believe the owner isn't trying to deceive me, she just doesn't have deep knowledge on stoves)

2)How old is the stove?

3)If the model listed is the correct model (or if it isn't) what is the burn time and heating square footage of the stove?

4) how much of an upgrade would this be over a Vigilant?

If anyone has any links that would offer additional info on the stove I would appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[summit]

thats a catalytic dutchwest stove.. hard to get proportions, but it looks like a larger model.
controlling it will take a lot of getting used to for you, and i would suspect that would be the reason the current owner is selling it.
there are several dial for primary air, secondary air, catalyt, etc. when you have them dialed up right, these work great on a long burn, but it is hard to perfect, and will change based on what wood from your pile you are throwing in there.
We get alot of these in trade for newer stoves, and they are a rats nest to rebuild and work on... often we sell them "as is"
you will probably get a more efficient timed burn on this when it is dialed in correctly, but it will not make your chimney any cleaner.

 

[summit]

this will probably do what your vigilant heats now, same burn time, sq ft, etc.

 

[BrowningBAR]

this will probably do what your vigilant heats now, same burn time, sq ft, etc.

Would it be the same burn time, but with less wood? I go through four and a half cords with the old Vigilant burning 24/7.

 

[BrowningBAR]

thats a catalytic dutchwest stove.. hard to get proportions, but it looks like a larger model.
controlling it will take a lot of getting used to for you, and i would suspect that would be the reason the current owner is selling it.
there are several dial for primary air, secondary air, catalyt, etc. when you have them dialed up right, these work great on a long burn, but it is hard to perfect, and will change based on what wood from your pile you are throwing in there.
We get alot of these in trade for newer stoves, and they are a rats nest to rebuild and work on... often we sell them "as is"
you will probably get a more efficient timed burn on this when it is dialed in correctly, but it will not make your chimney any cleaner.

Apart from replacing the cat every now and then, what else would need to be worked on?

In regards to the controls, what is the hard part? Getting it to burn well? Getting an efficient burn? Secondary burn? What is the difficulty when it comes to the controls?

 

[Jags]

The door opens the wrong way. Just my opinion. %-P

 

[BrotherBart]

A lot of Dutchwest Large Federal owners have passed through here and they all seemed to love their stoves.

 

[BrowningBAR]

A lot of Dutchwest Large Federal owners have passed through here and they all seemed to love their stoves.

The main thing for me is; Is it an upgrade to the old Vigilant that I have? I am looking for it to either use less wood (currently at 4 1/2 cord burning 24/z), put out more heat, or do both.

And what is a fair price for the stove? (not a deal breaker, just wondering)

A really appreciate everyone's comments. Hopefully I will hear from someone that owns, or owned, one.

 

[summit]

i don't think youll do much better that 4.5 cord/ winter with the dutchwest over your vigilant. but if you'll notice there is a primary air control lever, a damper and a spin draft on the load door side. you get it going with all 3 wide open, then shut the damper, the let er run a whjile, then shut the primary air lever, then runher some more... when the catalyst thermometer hits aroud 1400 deg, you dial down that knob as well.... thats for a long burn. for intermidiate burns, you've gotta play with the combo of primary air and the spin knob for the catalyst air and tune it in like a radio to keep the cat at around 1000 - 1600 degrees while also not smoking out the fire, or burning thru it too quickly. There is a jumble of parts in there, and the cat housing usually breaks first. the housing is a cast iron grid, with a fragile fiber assembly on top. getting the interior peices apart to replace them when they warp or crack (which they will) is usually done by breaking off every bolt and re-tapping new ones. I think once you dial it in right, you will be pleased at the even output over the longer burn from the secondary action with the catalyst, however, i do not think it will save you in wood or chimney cleanliness (most chims i see with these are pretty dirty) and the glass door on these becomes solid black after 1-2 fires.. A non catalytic stove would be much more forgiving to you, and easier to manage as they operate fairly close to what you have now.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I need some help understanding how this stove will not be any more efficient than an old Vigilant. I know the Vigilant is an old stove and not nearly as efficient as a new stove. So does this mean the Dutchwest Stove is a much older model? The current line of this stove says it has a 75% efficiency rating. How does that compare with the stove I am looking at?

Summit seems to be leaning towards staying away from the stove, but I need more information to understand a few things.

1. Summit mentions "A non catalytic stove would be much more forgiving to you, and easier to manage as they operate fairly close to what you have now." Is he referring to Dutchwest stoves or all stoves. If he is referring to all stoves then that gives me a better understanding of where he is coming from as some people are 'pro' catalytic stoves and some are against such stoves.

2. I work from home and can d!ck around with a stove all day to learn it's ins and outs. Will that allow me to get the stove working properly? How much of an issue is the setup for this stove?

3. Summit mentions it's upkeep, repair, and maintenance. Are there any Dutchwest Stove owners that can comment on this in support or in disagreement with Summits comments?

Summit, this isn't meant to mean that I don't believe your comments, but you are the only one so far to have a strong opinion way way or another.

 

[FireWalker]

If you are going to be near Lake George anytime soon I'll sell you mine. I used and have that same stove. Summit is correct, to operate that stove and I did for 12 years, you have to do it just right. No filling her up on good coal bed and shut her down for the night. Nope, that stove will require some of your time to get the burn going good then a gradule shut down and if you are lucky, the firebox temp will remain high enough to prevent smoke belching explosions from within her bowels but not too high and be out in the morning. Yup mine would backpuff something awful if you dampered the fire down too much. I'll sell mine for half of what she wants. And it's in fine shape, as good as new when retired to the garage last fall, just a light rusting.

That stove is rated for 55,000 btu max, it's a convection stove, so it's comfortable to be near. It's very heavy....500lbs+ and I too burn 24-7 and I would say I've pushed 4 1/2" cords thru her in a given season. You can expect good hot clean 6 hour burns with no worries, but when you go after longer say 8 hour burns thats when you are risking taking on smoke. Got an 8" chimney?

 

[Todd]

I always liked the looks of those stoves and came close to buying one once. I would think you should save firewood compared to that old stove, but it may take some extra wood to figure the thing out first.

 

[mayhem]

I had a "medium" on my old house...bought it in 1998. In using it over 2 winters I was never able to figure out how to get it to operate properly. It would either smoulder to the point where you could almost touch the stove body or run full throttle and you'd have trouble even being in hte same room.

Its a beautiful stove and can throw some serious heat, but if you're not prepared to spend the time necessary to get it working jsut right I would recommend you move on.

Not sure how to compare it to the Vigilant in any meaningful way. They're both big stoves and can throw alot of heat. Odds are good the newer cat stove will use a bit less wood, but I'm skeptical that it will use significantly less wood. Even if it does though, you'd be a fool to not assume itll use a bit more and make sure you have 5 cords available for the next season so you don't run the risk of running out.

 

[summit]

I need some help understanding how this stove will not be any more efficient than an old Vigilant. I know the Vigilant is an old stove and not nearly as efficient as a new stove. So does this mean the Dutchwest Stove is a much older model? The current line of this stove says it has a 75% efficiency rating. How does that compare with the stove I am looking at?

Summit seems to be leaning towards staying away from the stove, but I need more information to understand a few things.

1. Summit mentions "A non catalytic stove would be much more forgiving to you, and easier to manage as they operate fairly close to what you have now." Is he referring to Dutchwest stoves or all stoves. If he is referring to all stoves then that gives me a better understanding of where he is coming from as some people are 'pro' catalytic stoves and some are against such stoves.

2. I work from home and can d!ck around with a stove all day to learn it's ins and outs. Will that allow me to get the stove working properly? How much of an issue is the setup for this stove?

3. Summit mentions it's upkeep, repair, and maintenance. Are there any Dutchwest Stove owners that can comment on this in support or in disagreement with Summits comments?

Summit, this isn't meant to mean that I don't believe your comments, but you are the only one so far to have a strong opinion way way or another.

no offense taken, brother... i had seen alot of these come thru our shop, and they have all been trade ins for a non cat stove; the chief complaint was they were finicky and required alot of babysitting to get the proper burn out of it. the rest i have seen had long ago had the cats ripped out, ahd thus the interior was burned out because they left the spin dial wide open (w/out the catalyst) to get it to burn right. we've replaced a lot of parts on them, just like other vc products. mostly cat housings and damper housings. the top comes off easy cause it bolts down externally, but thats about it... the cat should be pulled a couple times a season to be cleaned, as the exhaust makes a pretty direct path into it.. it fills w/ flyash and cracks. (sidenote; i know some guys out there never clean their cat and its all good, but i also see an awfull lot of people with sticker shock when they find out a new catalyst cost 150-250, cause they never knew to clean it)
your old vigilant is pretty simple - air aircontrol and a damper... sometimes the little air horn hole on the back corner if you remember to mess with it. But it'll pretty much go no matter what you do... as long as the wood is dry. A simple tube burning non cat (larger like a lopi liberty, pe summit, jotul firelight, enviro has a big one) would operate in such a hassle free manner, as YOU do not have to regulate the secondary air / primary air ratio everytime you do something to it... if you are around all day, toss a couple sticks in and leave the control 1/3 to 1/2 open and leave it for a couple hrs. if you decide to load it up, fill it up and turn her down. The stove does the rest. I guess what i am saying, is i see a bunch of people come thru with those, and most all of them bought the stove to save on wood, burn more efficient, etc. over their old stove (usually a vigilant, or defiant, fisher pre epa stuff). after a couple seasons they got a more simple design and find it far superior. I have seen people satisfiyed w/ the catalytic dutchwests, but considerably fewer than the aforementioned crowd. The design has changed some over the years, but mostly cosmetic things (a single front door vs double doors, iron knobs / brass knobs, etc) the guts are all basically the same. look up the parts blowup online (most manuals have it) then look at a pe, or a jotul.. you'll see the difference.

 

[djblech]

I have a Dutchwest medium stove. I've had it for 12 yrs and I burn about 4 cord of wood each year. I have never replaced my cat. I clean the stove about 2 times a year and barely get 2 cups of soot/ash. I never touch the round air control. I get a fire started and when the temp gets above 500* I close the damper and walk away. I can open the damper and stoke wood and close damper as long as the temp stays above 500*. I rarely run hotter than 1000*-1100* this is on the thermometer on the top of the stove that measures flue temp. I usually get about 8 hrs at night and there is coals to start another fire. I like the ash pan for clean-up and because I can crack the ash pan door and get a fire going really fast. I do not know if the large stove is the same, but I do like mine.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Thank you to everyone that replied. It looks like I am going to pass on the stove as it does not seem like a big enough upgrade to justify the additional cost.

Summit, I appreciate all the additional info you provided, it helped. The Dutchwest seems like a fine stove, but it just doesn't seem like it would provide a big enough difference over what I already have.

 

[wellbuilt home]

As fire walker said Its a Ex large stove. I upgraded form a vigilant to the DW Extra large . I loved it ,and you will burn less wood with more heat. It a good up grade . I heated my 3000 + sq foot house for 14 years running at 3/4 capacity (I have no furnace) . I never had a problem running my stove. We just filled it with wood and adjusted the air. cleaned it once a year . John

 

[SmokeyStover]

I was a VC/ Dutchwest dealer for almost 20 years. I dropped the line 5 years ago. There were 3 models of the "Federal Airtight", small, large and extra large. The model number listed is for the large. The easiest way to tell is the small and large models have a 6" round flue, the extra large has a 8" oval. I agree 100% with everything Summit said.

A few years back CFM Majestic bought out VC. About 12 months ago CFM went bankrupt and most of their assets were purchased by a company in the states. Many older parts are no longer available and the ones that are come with an outrageous price tag. So much so that I can no longer afford to stock them. You WILL need parts for this stove at some point in time.

Personally I would not put one of these stoves in my home if it was given to me. Look for a Lopi Endeavor or Liberty, both of which will do what you want. If you see a deal on a Lopi 380, 440 or 520, that would work well also as they are just older versions but still very good good stoves. The 380 is an older Endeavor. The 440 is the same stove on a pedestal and the 520 is an older Liberty.
A really old 520 will have an 8" flue. Newer ones will be 6".

 

[BrowningBAR]

I have located a Medium or Large, 2 year old, non-cat Dutch West. The price is right. But the question is, is it a good stove? Is it more efficient than my old Vigilant? Will it put out as much heat?

Any non-cat Dutch West experience out there? Summit, do you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks for putting up with "what about THIS stove" threads. Just trying to make sure I don't take a step backwards in my attempts to upgrade while being extremely economical.

 

[wellbuilt home]

Smoky should know the stoves being a dealer . My experience was all good with the EX large stove . I think that The large stove has to burn less wood and give at least the same heat. John